FIRST ON CNN: Top Marine’s alleged comments in Taliban desecration case draw scrutiny
By Barbara Starr
A senior Marine general said in an extraordinary sworn statement obtained by CNN that the head of the corps wanted several Marines kicked out of the service for their alleged roles in urinating on Taliban corpses - even before any charges were brought.
Lt. General Thomas Waldhauser told military authorities in the sworn statement on Tuesday that he had a private meeting in February 2012 with Marine Commandant Gen. James Amos, who had just named him to lead the investigation and possible prosecution.
"I do not remember the exact words or sequence of what was said, but the CMC did make a comment to the effect that the Marines involved needed to be 'crushed,'" Waldhauser said, adding that the "CMC went on to say he wanted these Marines to be discharged from the Marine Corps when this was all over."
Waldhauser's statement was made as part of the record for upcoming court martial proceedings against two Marines involved in the case.
The Marine Corps said that Amos would not comment on the matter.
At the time of the meeting, Waldhauser had been ordered by Amos to become the "convening authority," which meant he was to handle the investigation and potential prosecution of several Marines allegedly involved.
The incident occurred in Helmand Province in July 2011 but did not come to light publicly until more than six months later when a video was posted on the Web. The video inflamed tensions over the U.S. presence in Afghanistan.
Under military laws governing what is referred to as "undue command influence," it's illegal for commanders more senior to the primary investigating officer to take any actions or make statements to pressure the outcome of a case.
The Pentagon's inspector general is investigating whistleblower allegations that Amos did just that.
Waldhauser's statement is a rare view into private communications at the highest levels of the U.S. military. At the time, he was the senior commander for all Marines serving in Afghanistan.
Waldhauser now serves as the senior military assistant to Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel.
The former commander said he told Amos that he did not believe the cases warranted general courts martial, which could have resulted in their dismissal from the corps.
"The CMC told me that he could change the convening authority on the cases, and I responded that would be his prerogative," Waldhauser said in his statement.
By any measure, a commander in Amos's position would not be allowed to essentially switch prosecuting jurisdictions because he did not like the potential outcome.
The matter took another turn after that meeting. Waldhauser said he received a call from Amos's deputy saying the commandant "was upset and regretted the conversation he had with me."
Waldhauser said Amos felt he had put his own office "in a bad position." Shortly after that, Waldhauser said he and Amos spoke directly and the commandant "admitted that he had crossed the line."
Amos moved the cases from Waldhauser's jurisdiction and gave them to another general.
In a February 10, 2012, memo to Waldhauser, Amos said, "I believe some of my comments during our recent conversation could be perceived as possibly interfering with your independent and unfettered discretion to take action in these cases."
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These Marines are dam fool's. This is the opposite of winning the hearts and minds. I hope these guys are thrown out of the military.
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What really get's me here is that these bozos who urinated on those dead men in Afghanistan most probably will get no more than a slap on the wrist while on the other hand, Pfc. Bradford Manning stands to spend the rest of his life behind bars although he did far less damage to this country than these bozos did. Where is the justice in that?
These marines should have urinated on the generals for putting them into another quagmire!
Thank you, brown. Spoken like another lame brained, right-wing Tea Partier. Those clowns need to be ashamed of themselves and how they shamed this country by their obscene deed. When are you people going to get it?
So what do we need to get Mr Patton? It's obvious that you have no clue what we do in Afghanistan and what it does to people. Don't pretend you do either. It wasn't the best thing to do but I'd rather have those Marines with me than you.
The young Marines put the Corps in a bad light. Now the general put the Corps in a bad light. Force him into retirement.
Obama needs to get rid of this commander. We got rid of Kings who had the power to say "off with their heads" with no justice system a long time ago. What the boys did was not as bad as the press made out to get a few days of ratings... and happens all the time over there... They should NOT be treated worse than murderers, rapists and drug dealers... In fact – our media doesn't even condemn murderers to the level they have these shell shocked, war stressed young kids.
Well, you've obviously never been in the military. Officers don't get to that rank without a keen sence of the political correct. The taliban deserve no respect, and I can't fault those Marines. I agree with them! But CMC and any GO position IS Political. Having been "Crushed" for a politically incorrect gesture at the end of my career, I know the deal.
For those who think the general did something right here.... what you are saying is that a single general should have the control to be the judge, jury and executioner on all cases... Are YOU willing to give up your rights... What if you are innocent?
You are losing sight of what the article is telling you... the debate over what the boys did not NOT the point this time - the General broke MAJOR laws... and has been covering it up since. We can not have all of the lives of our Marines put to the whim of one angry general... who sets himself up as a King who does not follow the laws set forth in the justice system.
You have obviously never been in the military. Like it or not a General is Judge, Jury, Executioner, CEO, Pope, and God all roled into one.
Hypocrisy
What those bozos did was a national disgrace by urinating on those dead men whether they were actually members of the Taliban or not. Gen. James Amos did the right thing here. By following our current aggressive foreign policies abroad, we already managed to make ourselves look as bad as bad can be! We need to keep a 1988 presidential campaign promise made by George H.W. Bush but later reneged on, that is, "a kinder, gentler America".
Amos broke the law... Maybe more than one.... You do NOT solve a problem by making even bigger problems! What the boys did was combat stress reaction young men frat boy stuff that we laugh at in movies. They did not murder or rape someone tomwhere the histeria over their actions is warranted. On the other hand... Is there now any surprise over why females will not report rape when they see just how major amos isnwilling to break the law to twist the justice system to what he wants? Remember... In the military, the judges, defense and prosecutors report to amos.
Never urinated on any dead bodies at frat parties before.
test
To the foot solder, war is simply about killing the enemy and staying alive. There are no "rules", no political correctness, when some guy behind the next rock is trying to blow you up. This goes for both sides in any conflict. Those who sit behind desks can establish all the "Geneva Conventions" and rules of "civilized warfare" they want ......But the only "Law of war" is "kill or be killed". Let those politicos who started a war try to find a better way? Maybe by staying out of foreign conflicts.....Huh?
In fact Portland Tony, we should never have invaded Afghanistan in the first place. Pres. George W. Bush used 9/11 as an excuse to do so for the purpose of exploiting Afghanistan's vast underground resources which the right-wing news media conveniently forgets to mention. This is because they don't want us to know. Afghanistan belongs to the Afghans and no one else!!!
Hello George
I think you have it backwards, Georgey Borgey should never have entered Iraq, he did so at his fathers bidding, just after he took office he had Iraq bomber, months before September 11, 2001. Then after that infamous date he painted a picture with cartoons to make up a reason to invade Iraq. All for daddy and no other reason. Then while the war in Iraq, America went into Afghanistan and that about going after Osama Bin Laden, who escaped into Pakistan, obviously with the governments help. Afghanistan is and was a mess, I think though between fighting on the ground and drone strikes the Afghanistan military maybe able to achieve order in their country when the Americans leave and Karzi is replaced.
@ Portland tony
While I agree with ypur assessment of killing the enemy and staying alive, ( because I was there myself ) there is never ever an excuse for the desecration of the body of the foe you have defeated. That is totally unjustifiable, needless to say, morally wrong.
It is obvious to all in this "discussion" who has been in a firefight and who hasn't. What is apparent in the article is that the Commandant of the Marine Corps disgraced himself, and his position, and ended any hope of fair treatment for the marines in the picture when he make his wishes known. We all know that it rolls down hill, and we all know that there isn't anyone in the Corps that has enough horsepower to stand up to the s#*t that rolls down from that high up. Any one who does can kiss his (or her) career good by.
I agree.... Though waldhouser was promoted by obama today.... Perhaps that is a sign that the president is going to CRUSH this rogue gen amos like the worm he is. Commandant broke the law... Read the articl in marinecorpstimes.com for the full story on the cover up and laws broken. This cnn piece only scratches the surface at the corruption going on.
There should have been a lineup a mile long. Respect is for those who fight a battle with some sembalance of honor. These are terrorist who seek out and kill not only the soldiers their fighting, but the civilian population as well. They do this so when they think they can regain control of the population, the civilian population will be so terrorized they won't stand up to the Taliban. Nope don't feel a moment of pity for these creatures. The rest of you who feel the deserve more, well get your crying rags out and send letters of condolences. While your at it mail a few of those to the parents of the men and women who have been killed serving the countries who enable you to snivel like you do.
Up until recently, with the advent of drones, missiles fired from submarines or bombs dropped from 30,000 ft made no distinction between good or bad guys, men, women or children!
Many of you just don't get it. The mentality being displayed in these comments shows why much of the world despises the U.S. The actions of these Marines and other members of the U.S. Armed Forces fighting these unconventional wars is why you have "terrorists". These actions push people to the Taliban and Al Quaeda who may have otherwise not supported them The. U.S. is trying to win hearts and minds over there. These actions defeat the purpose. The U.S. will continue to fail because of the arrogance displayed by many.
Quite true Interesting, quite true.
Very well said.
Well said!
Dear Barbar, it is disgraceful that you have to dig up a story from two years ago to flame the military. It is even more disgraceful that you wish to harm our military men and women by re-posting a photo of small unfortunate event which could be used by our enemy as propaganda against The United States of America, its people, allies and military. You and your editors need to grow up and become more responsible with what you report about. What you report on and how you report it can inflame tensions around the world.
Please T Saldana, quit bawling over these clowns, will you. Anyone with half a brain knows that these clowns were in the wrong as they showed no respect neither for themselves nor this country. They need to be punished for what they did.
George – what war did you fight in? Must have been a video game you got for Xmas. The most clueless readers always have the correct answer – NOT.
There are two different Marine Corps. The field Marines, and the REMFs in Washington who s**t themselves at the very idea of being in the field and in harm's way.
Walk a mile in their boots before you even think about having an opinion about this. Oh, and carry his +70 lbs pack, weapons, ammo, NBC gear, etc... Get shipped to a sh!t hole half way around the world on a boat, catch a disease, and watch your buddy take an RPG to the face. Perhaps then, you will have a better perspective to work with. And, don't forget our enemies use to cut off the genitals of our dead and shove them into their mouths. Think of that when you're drinking your grande two pump vanilla latte with splenda.
Marines have been filmed tearing the heart out of their victims and eating it.
Is that part of the military code of conduct?
What a waste of perfectly good urine.
How can you send them to war and punish them wen they win... This is war General .. Grow sum
I love all the Monday morning quarterbacking. I'm assuming that 98% of the people commenting on here are not part of, or have ever been apart of the military?? I don't know how it feels either, but Im guessing that watching your fellow brothers and sisters die at the hands of the talliban isn't a good feeling and probably changes how you feel/act towards your enemy combatants.
It's sad that anyone even gives 2 s***s about soldiers disrespecting the corpses of their enemies. Really? This is what war has become?
"This is what war has become?"
Yeah, we expect Marines to act honorably? How unreasonable! We should forgive them for acting like animals.
Soldiers must respect the enemy soldiers and dead. Such behavior is dishonorable to these marines personally and their fellow marines as a whole. There is no doubt these marines should be discharged from marine corps.
@ MV. You don't know diddly about the Marine Corps. Your statement "Soldiers must respect the enemy soldiers and dead. Such behavior is dishonorable to these marines personally and their fellow marines as a whole. There is no doubt these marines should be discharged from marine corps." shows you are clueless.
Those Marines should be counseled for their actions, not NJP and certainly not court-martialed or discharged. Everyone I know wishes they could pee on a dead Taliban; it would be an honor.
@DLee You are stupid. Marines are great warriors and if they want to maintain their place in history they should behave with honor.
D. Lee – don't pay attention to the couch potatoes who watch the war on the news. The fear factor is a huge part of fighting a war. If your enemy is scared of your mannerisms, tactics, and weapon capability you have already won the battle. If you infringe or mock their religious nonsense, the enemy (Taliban) will make huge battle errors because they are emotionally distressed about your current and future actions. Every means available to take them out one by one and humiliate them in the process will leave them in confusion, fear, and hate which makes much easier targets. A scared, disorganized enemy is a dead enemy which is the whole point of going to war. Fear is a powerful and inexpensive weapon.Been there – done that – Vietnam 1968.
@BRB what a joke. Are you talking about our own or North Vietnamese did it to us ?
I understand tactics to win a war but such stupid actions only help recruit more
muslims to join AQ/Taliban.
@ mv
BRB must come from one of those groups that no respect for anything, alive or dead. I too did my time in vietnam as a field medic back in 1969. There is no need to dishonor yourself by dishonoring the foe you have just vanquished. But some people take great pride in being animals.
Well said, mv. How right you are! These ignoramuses here taking for those clowns and what they did are truly disgusting to say the least. Evidently, those clowns need to learn some self respect so they can respect others.
This reaction to the Marines is the reason the US has lost so many wars. Hopefully these Marines have learned their lesson and will avoid having photographers the next time. btw, The Marines do respect their dead fellow warriors, just not what they believed or were fighting for.
@bobhamiltonchicago
"The Marines do respect their dead fellow warriors"
Thats confusing statement. Peeing on dead body is no respect.
"This reaction to the Marines is the reason the US has lost so many wars."
What ? Does that mean – we should be condoning/pardoning these marines ?
Marines are great warriors. They also have great moral responsibility.
These immature marines are not worthy of the corps.
Dead is dead. My only problem is they took video/pictures. I saw stuff I want to forget. Taking pictures to remember carnage is not a good thing. Hippies don't want real killers on the battlefield, I get it. Truth about killing is you need to go a little crazy to do it and not lose your mind. Don't be hard on these young men.
@J I dont have issue with little crazy. As a soldier you are taking somebody else's life. That's your duty. You might as well put extra bullets in the dead terrorists body. But peeing and laughing and taking pictures ... that's just wrong.
I dont see it any different than Abu gharib photos.
Muchas gracias. ?Como puedo iniciar sesion?
those were not soldier from any army. those were terrorist. BIG DIFFERENCE. Remember how this people treat our death. Irak Navy seal hanged from brigde and dragged on streets.
@hp We can be better. Why do you want us to stoop lower ?
You need to be discharged from life.
@BRB ye right and pee on me too
Obamas Generals look like N.Korea GENERALS .
do Marine generals have stars up their asses?,yes.
and apparently they think they also fart glitter.
Typical Marine officer. Doesn't care about the young men he commands, simply cares that someone embarrassed him and may have hurt his political aspirations.
Yes, the young men made a mistake. Urinating on corpses is probably worthy of an NJP and a reduction in rank for all involved. General courts martial (and being a felon if convicted) is way overkill.
Relieve Gen Amos of command for being an awful leader and a ridiculous d-bag. I would never act towards my direct reports like Marine officers treat their Marines. I guess that's why I got out and moved on to a career where people are treated like, oh I don't know... people.
No, he was reacting to an absolute disgrace to the Marine Corps. There was absolutely no military reason for those punks to be desecrating the enemy bodies. Marines are supposed to hold up a moral code, a code of conduct that represents American values, honor, and professionalism. Those guys failed on all fronts.
Admittedly making a statement before the facts were out was rash and irresponsible. But in balancing rights and wrongs here, the general's mistake was in protection of honor (not to mention how this outrage might spark vengeance attacks against other soldiers and Marines) and was far less of an issue than the original acts committed by those Marines.
They excercised poor judgement. I think what so many of you are forgetting is the fact that most of these are VERY young men. 18-22 years old. A general court martial and subsequent discharge ruins your life. There is no getting that back. You don't pass a background check, you can't vote, you can't own a weapon, etc..
I agree that they should be punished. NJP them, reduce them all in rank, and don't allow them to re-enlist.
The fact is, the General overreacted because this hurt him politically, and he wants to ruin a few young men's lives FOREVER because of it.
Screw Gen Amos, and screw 90% of the Marines that wore anything shiny on their collars.
A general discharge does not ruin your life. You can still own a gun, vote, get a security clearance. Now a dishonorable discharge can be hindrance for things like a security clearance, but that would be it. You'd still be able to purchase a firearm and vote .
60 years ago or so, Germans murdered 6 million jewish non-combatants and thousands of Soviet peasants/citizens. In retribution, during 1945 soviet soldiers raped German women on an unprecedented scale, mutilated captured Wehrmacht soldiers, and bashed German infants against concrete walls...Point being...urinating on dead combatants doesn't really compare to the real atrocities that go on in a war.
You people lack any sort of historical context for the "crimes" these Marines committed. Give me a break.
to ronvan; Semper Fi; bro!
"The General wanted the Marines crushed." Really?! Those Marines did not decide to be there. Our troops should have been gone years ago, and this General thinks that they're the problem?! Obviously this General represents ineffective leadership within the ranks of the military and more so within the ranks of the politicians who have failed to get our troops home.
The General doesn't get to decide whether the Marines are there or not, either. He has to answer to the civilian authorities placed above him. What the General CAN do is get angry when a bunch of unthinking, careless kids do something that disgraces the service he is in command of in a public manner.
The General doesn't have the authority to stop the war, just to try to fight it as best he can, and that includes maintaining good order and discipline amongst the troops...which these Marines did not evidence with their actions.
Putting on a uniform doesn't automatically make a man honorable.
This behavior makes them no better than the men they murdered and then desecrated.
The real puzzle here is why anyone would take a picture of this and then let it get out to the world.
The guy with the camera is the real dirtbag here.
I'm glad they peed on them if it made them feel a little better about these ***holes that re trying to kill them every day. The Taliban smelled of p*ss before this,and they will after. I am just mad they can't use pigs blood on all their bullets, and bury each one of these m*ggots with a pig carcas like we did in Philipines.... we put that Muslim rebellion down in months, not decades.
Thank you Trevor for exhibiting your ignorance here. Are you a Tea Partier? You just posted like one!
HYPOCRITES & STUPID!!! WE are the "good guys" so we don't do wrong? WE must have rules, even if our enemies don't? These Marines (SEMPER FI), used bad judgement in that they let the person with the camera take the film! ALL wars, conflicts, whatever we call them, have their "insane, disgusting" stories, that we cannot beleive! BELEIVE THEM! Wars will bring out the worst in all of us in a battle to survive! WHO TO BLAME? Look at the MIC, our BOUGHT off "elected children" & the POTUS that started these things!
Great post
Great post. Right On!!
Good grief ronvan, you must wear your ignorance on your sleeve. Are you proud of the ignorant comment that you posted above? Evidently, you're a Tea Partier.
Dangit guys!! Now your in the Political zone for your actions. I have no doubt of your courage and resolve but DANGIT.
I do wonder if Gen Amos did this on purpose? Knowing there was political preasure that would probably cause an over-reaction in terms of over punishing the Marines in question, he injects "Undue Command Influence" into the mix in order to "innoculate" the Marines from being found guilty in a Court Martial?
Doesn't matter, and you should know that. They will be found guilty and leave with the "Big Chicken Dinner". This is all but inevitable, and while what they did was wrong, the real error (like mentioned several times by others) was getting caught. Sadly, this is the reality even in times of peace. The things Marines get away with – and the things they don't – all come down to image (theirs, their units, the Corps). If they tarnish it, they've exercised poor judgment and even minor infractions will be punished severely. If they avoided tarnishing it, they can get away with just about anything, even if it does result in a career ending event, it would be handled quietly if not for the image issue. Everything else just becomes window dressing.
This does NOT mean that this is the *only* issue with what they did, only that their lack of judgment in publicly tarnishing the Marine Corps’ image will be the difference between a quiet exit and a B.C.D.
This is absurd. "You can kill these guys, but peeing on them is unacceptable."
So you have no problem when they pee on our dead or drag them through the streets?
Son – we don't do it because we are superior to them...
So you consider Marines and Soldiers to be the same as Taliban who murder civilians and throw acid in schoolgirls' faces?
War is war. Trying to "civilize" it is stupid.
In a war like this, image is everything. A tactical victory means nothing in Afghanistan–we are fighting a war for public relations, for hearts and minds. You might not think it matters if our marines urinate on Taliban corpses, but what you think doesn't matter to the mission–it's what the average Afghan thinks that matters to the mission. So if the average Afghan who sees these pictures thinks that American forces are disrespectful and taking pleasure in killing, then we've lost. These marines are not just being punished because someone in command thinks what they did is wrong; they're being punished because stunts like this endanger our reputation and our mission abroad.
Actions thatbare unbecoming of a Marine. There ain't no second chances! Out you go!
Cuz u said so? How about that are unbecoming of a human who is responsible to God? Out you gotta go to Hell on your first sin. How about that?
There is no such charge as unbecoming of a Marine. Know the UCMJ before you go and spout off erroneous charges.
How 'bout Article 134. It implies what the OP posted although the verbiage isn't exactly as written.
Yes, but you can still get done under Article 134.
to kill an animal you gotta become an animal
... obama believes the spear is broken... the spear is under new power soon to be reviled... alpha 1 come in fox team 3 divine instruction as follows eliminati the liers in the government MIAOW... roger 6 out
Combat Marines have to de-humanize the enemy so they can kill them. If you have not killed like these Marines have then you have no right to comment on their behavior. Combat changes who you are. These men should be brought back home and be Honorably discharged and thanked for serving their country. War is a horrible thing and it makes men do horrible things. Semper-Fi Marines.
That is exactly why we have rules in war, so these things don't happen. They were taught those rules and don't act like they weren't.
The Geneva Convention does not address urinating on corpses. It addresses how we treat prisoners. Corpses are not prisoners.
I am not condoning their actions, and their conduct was unbecoming of a U.S. Marine, but they broke no law. All they did is embarrass the U.S. by their actions. (Why someone would ever take a photo of doing something like this speaks volumes of their lack of common sense.)
We are a professional military and we are above acting like these guys did. Their actions dictate that they do not belong in the Corps. These are not the kind of service members we want serving in our ranks along side of the rest of us. We know we are better than our enemy, but we must also act like it. Our superior firepower and training are not all that separate us from those we fight; our morality and proper conduct while wearing our respective uniforms also separates us from our enemy. These guys had to find that out the hard way. Let their poor judgment be a lesson to anyone who thinks about doing something so stupid in any future conflict.
How does losing war to the 'animals' feel?
IN case you hadn't noticed, there are more of them that are dead than ours. It is US peeing on them, not the other way around. This was not a war, this was a slaughter, and yes, WE won– and WE were not the ones who got slaughtered. Yeah, we may give them back their country, but if it is in a pile of ashes, who won the war again? We won the war. The afghans lost the peace. Afghans were always animals, no amount of civilizing or war could convince them otherwise. It was their fate, the second they turned Muslim- a religion for animals.
So to jail a psychopath or narcissist or a criminal you have to be a criminal? Are you a police officer? Whoever you are you should be executed for what you said, in front of the world, crucified. You are the type that makes the world Hell.
Like the Marine who threw the puppy over the cliff? Just for the 'fun of it'? Yes, there was a pic of that one also.
I totally disapprove of the behavior but I prefer to see these marines punished, sent to counseling and given a second chance. Have them go unit to unit and stress in person why it is imperative that ALL US military set the high standards of behavior the people back home want to see from their service personnel.
Use these soldiers to good effect rather than dump on them.
It worked for Gen. Patton in WWII, it could work just as well now.
These "Marines" urinating on corpses are not material. This holds no honor. This lacks courage. There is no commitment to what our nation stands for in this action. I am ashamed to call them my brothers.
You are nobody, and if you went through the same stuff you would just cry like a little girl. Tell us all more tall tales of how much integrity and honor you have in comparison why dont you...
Projection much?
Punk kids like you are what its wrong with the world.
10 years i have served. Have you ever been anywhere other than your mom's basement?
Answer me little wanna be
Get back to me after you see your best friends die or come home messed up for life.
I have and this is no excuse for their actions they should be dishonorably discharged
Its a shame to even consider these marines as well respected to those of WW2 or any other war.
Anthony, is your last name Weiner? Thought so.
They are a disgrace to the uniform.
Amen
If I knew these guys had killed my fellow soldiers, I'd pee on their corpses too. I don't know why that's so shocking. It's really the idiot that posted it on the internet that needs to get fried.
you are a fool... and the POINT of this article is that the GENERAL has broken the law... major... big time... and has disgraced the Marines far more so than a little tinkle on a few dead terrorists.
I think that you discount the impact of combat on these men above. While I understand the public outrcry and the Commandant's anger towards the situation, these young men were told to fight and kill. While it is very easy to judge, it is much more difficult to understand. I don't know your situation, I can assure you of the pain and anger you feel when your brothers and sisters die in a war that you don't necessarily support, but fight because you raised your hand and said that you would do anything the President and Congress, elected by the people, tells you to. It seems sad that we are upset about actions like this, which clearly conveys the damage war does to the young, yet seem indifferent when a veteran toe fires a shotgun to end the pain.
Please. What exactly does our nation stand for? This ought to be good...
My heart goes out to Gen. John Amos for sticking to his convictions in this matter. What those clowns did by urinating on those dead men whether they were Taliban or not, was totally indefensible! Those guys need to be brought to justice and dealt with appropriately as they disgraced this country in the process. I am utterly disgusted with these ignorant bloggers here taking up for those clowns. That is just sheer ignorance!
Sorry for the misprint above, folks. I should have said Gen. James Amos, not John Amos. Excuse me.
It's not like youre over there or have any insight into anything anyways, but instead youre just some comfortable fat complaining civilian. They were already dead, and good riddance. You should be so lucky to get to complain about something that hurts youre precious effeminate sensibilities.
Your ignorance is entertaining. I have been there, for the "Big" pushes and the boring security missions. What these young ignorant punks did is disgraceful to my beloved Corps. The thought "that because it was done while at war makes it ok" is mind blowing. Before you can even say "Go to Combat and then tell me your opinion", been there, done that, got the t-shirt. The fact is that what they did was wrong. And as for you, you want my respect? Come climb my stack and find you some!
The general probably cares less and thinks its funny as hell but must act as though he thinks its terrible. He is probably beyond pssed at them for taking a photo. Source: you don't become a general by always telling the truth or by being a bad actor. They face the same hardships anyone else does but they must carry themselves in a certain manner. Nearly no one fits this mold so they must be good at acting as well as a lawyer in a way. Then at the end of the day pray to god that person also understands warfare outside of the bureaucracy and bs.
Gen Anus is known to his men as the worst commandant in history... and the one spending more bonus money to hire criminal investigators to turn against his men while he lays of fighting Marines because there "is not enough money". He hates his Marines – it is known he hates them – and they can't stand him either. This case is also not the first case he has tampered with to convict someone in the "justice system" – where the judges have chastized him. This is just the one he left a paper trial on and has an honest general ready to call him out.
Amos was not sticking to convictions... he was kissing political but for politicians... and BREAKING THE LAWS... and he KNEW he was breaking the law and worked to cover it up... read the fULL story... http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/article/20130725/NEWS/307250040/3-star-Commandant-wanted-Marines-crushed-urination-video
Shut the fkuc up.
They peed on Taliban who had just been trying to KILL them.
Big deal.
Give 'em medals and send them to John McKane's house and let's see if he's got the guts to say these things to their faces.
I suspect John McCain would gladly say it to their faces if challenged in such a manner, and he's earned every right to, having been the recipient of abuse and mistreatment by his captors during the Vietnam War. So he's got a more than a little front-line perspective on why we can and should be morally and ethically better than those we fight against.
And give them medals for peeing on corpses? Those are some low standards for decorations you have there.
Highly inappropriate activity on behalf of the Commandant, still repulsive behavior by the soldiers in question. If you don't have your dignity, you have nothing. The entire premise of your purpose for being there and your friends bleeding and dying is trampled in the first place when you reduce yourself to such low caliber of integrity. Worse things happen in war and worse thing happen in civilian life, neither are an excuse to stoop yourself down desecration.
There's nothing noble about blind loyalty to something based on the geographic orientation of your birth. Being a patriot means more than obedience and sheepish validation through like-minded conference.
Well said, uos_spo6. When one has no self respect, one has nothing at all! That's why there is so much road rage because those who either make obscene gestures or use that filthy Tea Party lingo on the road have no respect for themselves nor for others!
What the heck is "filthy Tea Party lingo"???
Wow, it's really easy to talk all of the crap youre talking when you dont actually have to go through any of what they go through. You are a nobody. Quit pretending like you are some wise man who knows all. You would probably curl up in a ball and shid yourself.
Andrew pipe down. You haven't served in the military either. We Americans know the history of the Marine Corps. We learned about it in high school. Therefore we expect better respect from our warriors than what these men did. Being there and seeing the war first hand is NO excuse for this behavior.
Tex Teacher "learned" dumbed-down sanitized nonsense.
When and where did YOU serve, Tex?
walk in their shoes... then give that diatribe... go get yourself blown up... then sent over there while you are suffering from a traumatic brain injury they hid from you even having... then fight for months and watch several of your men get blown up including your brother that week whose legs they parade in front of you all week before dangling them in the trees to continue to rot. Get in a fire fight with 6 of the enemy knowing you could be dead in a flash... and then kick back and give all that diatribe you just spewed...
Real soldiers would've realized it was reallt stupid of them and left the military voluntarily...............
These marines display a lack of discipline. They do not belong in a self-respecting military.
I hope Obama will CRUSH this General Amos.. that is what needs to happen.
Spoken like another hateful, dimwitted Tea Partier. This is the kind of ignorance that will eventually bring this country to it's very knees. Gen. James Amos should be commended for his input in this matter. Those jerks do need to face the consequences of their actions.
General Amos displayed a FAR GREATER threat to military integrity and honor than a few corpse-wetting enlisted Marines.
General Amos showed his willingness to ignore the law when it was an obstacle to this desires.
But partisan tools like George have no problem with those in positions of power abusing their authority, so long as the abuse is directed at someone who George doesn't like. George would be loudly demanding General Amos' head if Amos had used undue command influence to block a court martial of these Marines.
George, you're a nasty partisan hypocrite. People like YOU are the threat to this country's future.
If I had to choose.. I would trust my life with these warriors who know the meaning of Semper Fi and and have stood with each other... versus this rouge Commandant who seeks to "CRUSH" my own men over one error.
That one error happens to be urinating on a corpse. This is not what we are about.
Typical anti-military story
Seems to me – for the first time – CNN is showing the real story... and not just siding with this commandant who seeks to CRUSH the sons of our nation. I stand by our boys...
More on this case http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/article/20130725/NEWS/307250040/3-star-Commandant-wanted-Marines-crushed-urination-video
Sounds like you guys don't understand UCMJ or the department of the navy that much...
Sounds like the General does not understand the UCMJ – read the new release on marinecorpstimes.com - even more details – including this generals own prosecutor filing red flags and IG investigation reports on him...
General Amos would turn his back on his troops. I respect the position of CMC, rank of General, and the duties it entails.....
I do not respect Amos. It's a shame the boys are under his guidance.
AGREED! Obama needs to get rid of this rouge General... we do NOT need another scandal of generals breaking laws going unpunished in this country....
As soon as he gets rid of the thieves, thugs, crooks, and liers he has in his admin.
So you think the general should stand by his troops when they've done something disgusting, irresponsible, and generally considered reprehensible by any civilized society...why exactly?
The idea that "the troops can do no wrong" is one of the biggest problems our nation has. If we can't prove ourselves to be any better than the people we're fighting, what's the point?
Just one more reason no one should every enlist. They drive the soldiers all to the breaking point and then overreact about some thing like this. The President and Congress and career generals just use the troops and kick them to the street. 2/3 of our homeless are vets.
Big f'in deal. I'll bet WWII Marines shake their heads in disbelief. I'm a Viet Nam Marine and I do the same. War is hell and anyone who tells you otherwise has never been there. Were these Marines wrong? Sure. Compare it to SAWING, as with a knife, someone's head off while they are bound and screaming. Some of you pathetic pansies make me sick. I am tired of America and Americans being labeled as the bad guys.
I must agree with some who claim that this act is disgraceful etc., but let's put in the proper perspective. Urinating on an enemy cadaver is a symbolic action at best aimed at making a statement. At worst it's simply in bad taste. These Marines should each have been given Article 15, fined about $500 each, and given a suspended bust. There are many more things much more hideous that go in warfare that go unpunished. As for the Marine Corps Lieutenant General who said, 'they should have crushed', he should retire. Things that go on in the field, STAY IN THE FIELD. They are not posted on the internet or broadcast by CNN. The idiot who took the film / pictures and published them, should be censored by the Pentagon. If he's in the military, he should be advised that has given valuable propaganda to the enemy and should be disciplined appropriately IAW UCMJ. His punishment should exceed that given to the Marines who urinated on the enemy cadavers.
i haven't even seen this general go after this "lonewolf" character that took these pictures and sold them to TMZ... that is the one they should have gone after in my opinion. I won't even watch TMZ after they threw these boys and the nation under the bus with this.
As for this general Amos- Obama needs to get rid of this rouge commandant... the guy seems totally out of control, and the news reports say this is not the first time he has violated the justice system. We don't need anymore scandals right now.
Hey genius, one of those involved posted these pictures to social media. No one stole them.
should read sold them.
Glad to have not been there, but smart enough not to have taken pictures. I say give them a pat on the back to show the world what we think of these barbarians. Semper Primus 2/1 Inf.
As a Viet-Nam Veteran/ Former Marine, I am reminded of a discussion we were having in our All Marine Group Session when this event was first reported. As we were discussing it, Recon Rick entered the room and asked what we were talking about. I told him what these guys had done to the dead Taliban "Fighters". His reply: "Is that all?" I'm sure that General Amos served in Viet-Nam and what went on there. These guys' mistake was taking pictures of it. And please, don't whine to me about it not happening. I was there and saw much worse than urinating on corpses going on. Semper Fi.
agreed...
What these Marines did is shameful. In war you strive to kill your enemy as he attempts to kill you. All the while you remain human and maintain your dignity. Regardless whether your enemy would have urinated on you or not, you will not do the same to him because you are better than he is and you are above these uncivilized actions. The moment it becomes socially acceptable for members of the military to urinate on dead bodies is the moment you have lost the war. He was an enemy combatant and you killed him. What more can you do to him? Urinating on him does not hurt him more it only shows the world what you are willing to do to a dead corpse that cannot defend itself. Therefore, urinating on dead enemies is shameful, uncivilized, and a cowardly thing to do.
I served in the Marine Corps from 89-07 and was discharged from active service due to injuries sustained in combat. I never lost my cool during combat or afterwards nor did any of my Marines. I wish the commandant would have brought the hammer down on these clowns.
Well stated.
uh... yeah... whatever dude... you did not serve...
I'm gonna send you Iraq and Afghanistan 5 times out of 6 yr enlistment so America Doesn't have a draft. And when I send you to war, political correctness dictate your actions in the field and rules of engagement. and after the 6th time of going to war at a year stint at a time. if your about to lose your mind and pee on the guy that just decapitated your friend or raped young afghan villager. your military career and veteran benefits are gone! because you should of held your marble to together, on your 5th deployment at war, to a war, the American people pay attention to. PS I suck at english
absolutely well said MikeB, bravo...the traitor beeotch for whom you replied should read hard and deep your words...the time is coming and will sweep clean their com mie words....
WELL said! Obama needs to get rid of this commandant – he has broken the law – and appears out of control. LAST thing we need is another scandal! WE (this country) should not have generals who want to CRUSH our nation's sons... especially not for a frat boy level incident.
If I was stuck fighting a losing war, always wondering who wants to kill me, and was tasked with taking care of the bodies of people who killed my friends, I can't promise I wouldn't do the same thing.
The pictures, on the other hand, were a very bad idea.
The general sounds like the liaison type sucking up to his bosses. Probably too much time in DC.
Most of you would not understand. You embarrass the Corps and the Corps will turn on you real quick. Period.
Suddenly the movie "A Few Good Men" seems completely unbelievable.
Real marines throw their soldiers to the wolves.
So no trooper should ever be court-martialed or disciplined for doing anything wrong? I'm sure that will lead to a well-organized, disciplined fighting force....
For the love of God, we are not soliders or troopers, that is the Army. That is all.
As someone that has been over there and has seen what those animal Taliban is capable of they should have had a big dinner of pork and then crapped all over them instead.
I seriously doubt that you could even find "over there" on a proverbial f*****g map, sunshine.
FOLKS – you are missing the point – we have all read the diatribes for 2 years on whether the boys should have done this or not... that is OLD news...
The NEWS here is that this Commandant is setting himself up as judge, jury and executioner – and then trying to COVER HIS TRACKS! Do YOU want that kind of justice system for you for any offense you may be accused of? What if you are INNOCENT? Is it ok for the powerful to tamper with our justice systems – military or civilian?
Finally – someone who gets the point. Why have courts if the rich powerful general just breaks all the laws and removes anyone not ruling as HE wants them to rule? He was not sorry for his comments – he was CYAing himself after his council warned him he broke the law... he STILL shifted the cases to a general who did what HE wanted that general to do... otherwise... we would not be still hearing about this case and having our tax dollars wasted on it 2 years later!
A "rich, powerful general"? Rich? How many career military officers do you think have become millionaires while on active duty? Let me help you: none.
in perspective to a low ranking enlisted living on foodstamps... a general is a millionaire... and if you look at what Amos wife wears... ($1000 suits)... he or she definitely has money... you can see their mansion on his wife's fb site
Human brains continue to develop physically well into our late 20s. Early 20s "adults" routinely make *horrible* life-changing decisions because they physically cannot fully comprehend the consequences of their actions much of the time.
And yet our military is comprised primarily of 18-24 year olds. Kids with guns, shot at, ordered to shoot other people... and yet they're supposed to make GOOD decisions after a firefight with people trying their best to kill them?
I hear claims of "unAmerican" when describing these Marines.
I say they're human.
the age range varies. but most unit leaders are older.
a sgt is about 23-24 if he went to bootcamp at 18 – 19 years old. That is the rank, or below, of most of these kids...
That's a horrible justification of what happened. What about the 9/11 hijackers? Most of them were 18-24, and were easily influenced by radicals. That doesn't make that crime acceptable.
so peeing on a dead guy that JUST tried to kill you after the heat of battle.. and who had hung your buddies legs up in a tree is the same as the 911 terrorists who plotted and planned for over a year to do something? You are equating these two "crimes"? Seriously? Wow... I hope you never end up in court for a fender bender and get charged for attempted murder.
Pretty much on the button. The act of killing someone else is far worse than what they did after, but thats war. It's ugly, brutal and for the most part unnecessary but you do what you can to stay sane in the chaos. Having them punished for going above and beyond bad taste makes sense. Having examples of consequences gives others a fixed point to help decide where to pee.
And yet, millions of other young people across our nation's history have served in combat honorably and without incident. Afraid that puts the lie to your "They're young so they shouldn't be faulted for bad decisions under stress!" justification. Others have done just fine under similar or effectively identical situations, so there is no objective reason to ignore the actions of these marines based on their age. Clearly the capability is there even in the young troopers...in this case they simply chose not to utilize it.
My first thought was how could they do this, they should be above this just the same as a police officer must not use excessive force and respect a criminal suspect, But then I realized this is a much different case. They are sent there to win a war not uphold the law. When you are fighting for your life and survival of your brothers in arms, you have to do what ever it takes to win and keep your sanity. The only thing they are guilty of is being stupid for posting the video. Any one who sees combat should be given a medal, regardless if you agree with the war or not, they are doing there best to defend our country and we all should be proud of our troops. If you don't like the war, take it out on the politicians
Gee whiz Bart, how can you defend these clowns? Don't you know how they put this country to shame by doing what they did? That was very uncalled for!
I have never seen combat, but I have witnessed people killed and been shoot at. Knowing how those few minutes effected me, I can only begin to imagine what day after day of living in a combat zone would do to a person. So unless you have walked a mile in their shoes, don;t be so quick to judge. It is easy to say what they did was horribly wrong sitting at your desk or home, safe and comfortable.
HOW did THEY put the country to shame...? THEY did not post this video... some loser stole it and sold it to TMZ – who very quickly had NO problem broadcasting it to hype the news cycle. By every story posted on the boys, they were as stunned as everyone else that this lonewolf character, whomever that is, got this and posted it. Further – if you knew anything about what goes on it the front – you would know this happens all the time – and this is not the worst thing that goes on. Further – just how bad do you want the punishment to be for a bunch of shell-shocked boys who had been shot at all day and seen their buddy blown up – over what is a frat-boy level incident that we LAUGH at when hollywood does it for goodness sake? We have seen crack dealers and murders treated better than these boys!
PERSPECTIVE is what is missing here. There immediate commander should have been allowed to deal with this in Marine Punishment forms (lots of pain) - not some hyped up political garbage to appease a bunch of rich politicians that have never seen a hard days work in their lives.
I think we should give these marines a metal. Why give one f*** about the corpses of your enemy? They should have impaled the corpses and lined the roads with them. Then peed on them.
I agree – and even if they were to be punished – it should be a relative punishment to the offense... not to the politician desire of the commandant... They have punished rapist far less than what this commandant has been going after...
Stay strong brothers
No, they need to get crushed, for stupidity, why would you tape this, because they were ass clowns. They should, not have taped it.
All feelings aside, I wonder if there are any viable records showing that the Taliban did the same on U.S. servicemen who were killed over there in order for American soldiers to have retaliated like this?
to hell with the Taliban. most of us could careless that this happened. the General is looking for political points.
I agree that what General Amos did was wrong but at least he had the good sense to see what he went over the line and replaced General Waldhauser because he realized he'd gone over the line and that his comments could have been construed as unlawful command influence. This, however, begs the question of what the Commandant said to the general who replaced Gen Waldhauser as convening authority. I understand his anger and I take him at his word that he admitted he'd gone over the line and I understand his reasons for the replacement. Could it be that he found himself a "yes man"? For the sake of the Corps, I certainly hope not.
You need to look at the timeline – if this conversation happened in Feb – then that was not a kneejerk comment by the Commahant – as that was a month after the news broke. Further – he STILL can't remove Waldhauser from the post of deciding the punishment on the boys just because HE shot off his mouth. If you read the entire story on this case at marinecorpstimes – you will see that Amos did not just shoot his mouth off out of anger... he sought to classify evidence illegally, covered up for the son of another general, etc....
We are supposed to stand for certain things in this country. 'We' are supposed to be the honorable ones with principles.
Yeah – this General has NO principles...
They should have received medals!
Yes, really heavy medals and pushed over this side of the nearest ship.
True. Completely un-American.
Thank you, kfromaz. Spoken like true simple minded, hillbilly Tea Partier from the South. Aren't you kind of ashamed of posting what you did above? I would be if I were you!
Boys should receive MORE medals – according to the past news articles – most of them have purple hearts and other medals already. WHAT have YOU done for this country?
BTW – the article is about the GENERAL breaking a REAL law – not a ROE.... Are you ok with just one big fat politician over riding the civilian justice system to convict you of anything you do? If not – this should outrage you!
The make America look like jack $$es to the rest of the world Medal.
I just want to thank Lt. Gen. Thomas Waldhauser for speaking out here. He just made me proud to be a marine showing that morality still counts among us. It's the right-wingers in Washington who use us in order to gain control of other countries. It should never be this way. No one should go to war except out of sheer necessity to do so!
Morality: You can blow them up, maim them and even kill them, but by God don't you dare pee on them...
I want to thank the General as well – God Bless you for being HONEST! It is about time someone was! I have read the background stories on this case, and on several of these Marines. I am sorry – but even if you don't like what they did – some of these boys have lost legs, throats, have brain damages, etc..since this has happened.. In my book – that is already ENOUGH punishment.
My God – if we "CRUSHED" every young man that peed on someone or something – half the boys in fraternities would be in jail by now, and they don't even have the excuse of being shot at and blown up several times!
The general did not speak out on the issue. It was sworn testimony at some hearing which SOMEONE took it upon themselves to leak to the press.
I don't agree with the actions of the Marines, but I know where they are coming from. We are supposed to be better than that. Apparently a Few weren't so Proud....
Vietnam Vet, 1966-1968
not sure anyone had to leak it to the press... some of the press has been covering this all this time... and as far as I know – has the right to publish ... it is just mainstream is finally picking up on the corruption. A congressman spoke out about the problems a week or so ago as well... made a press release
he speaks for me, too.
They should have dumped on them too...
The Marines were just washing them off for burial... Probably the cleanest they've ever been.
GOOD JOB MARINES,your commondaunte might be gay.
Relax people. This is an Inspector General's issue. They'll handle it as the many thousands they get every day. As a result, these Marines will get vindicated in court just because no military prosecutor would touch the case since there is already "conflict of interest".
Case DISMISSED!
Well under due process maybe, but as the current administration operates, I could see Holder crawling all over these guys just as soon as he is done with Zimmerman and anyone else who dares defy the wishes of his majesty.
The Maines should of been promoted.............
The only wrong action the Marine took was filming what thy did to dead insurgents. There have been worse incidents that have gone unrecorded that stayed between the unit and the individuals involved. War takes a strong individual that is why a small percent of America has raised there hand and gone into harms why. The nation put a rifle in these guys hands after telling them for so wrong growing up murder is wrong. They had to de-humanize the individuals thy were killing because thy were told to go and take action against the enemies of this nation. Some of the comments on here are an example of people who have never seen war and then comment on the actions of those who kill for them. Warriors made by there tax dollors to hone them in a most unfortuanate necessity of peace. Those who judge them for what thy did ask yourself could you kill someone in front of you unhesitant who you know is an insurgent who you know wants to kill you and others. Were you capable of considering them human while you were killing them? If you say yes, I judge your integrity, if you say no I call you honest.
This is no different than our soldiers in Vietnam cutting off the ears, fingers or heads of the enmey. War is hell and intimidation is part of the game. Get over it civilians and military legs.
These marines did something wrong and disgusting and deserve to pay the price. Good riddance.
These Marines should be dropped off at Alain's house and he can say those things to their faces.
So just to be clear, you are completely and totally OK with the Taliban/Al Qaeda types dragging the bodies of our soldiers through the streets and otherwise desecrating them, right?
why don't we let these marines say they are sorry and it will be done with. that's all it takes for politicians and wall street big wigs .
They did much worse to our soldiers they captured alive, or did we forget about those incidences.
What's wrong with those clowns who urinated on the purportedly dead Taliban anyway? Don't they know how ashamed they made the rest of us feel even to be Americans? We have and never had any right to be in Afghanistan in the first place and now this? How so very repulsive this is!!!
this does not make me ashamed to be an American. so please dont act like you talk for everyone
He speaks for me.
Me too, Alain. What's wrong these other guys here? Have they no sense of right or wrong? Like George said, we have no business in Afghanistan!
This retard doesn't speak for any Americans other than other retards from their mom's basement.
It may be wrong because we set higher standards for ourselves as Americans. Honestly, it should not have been done but for you to say we had no right to be in Afgan, you are an IDIOT! They let an attack happen on US soil and that gave us every right to be there. Change your user name, it is a disgrace!
Doesn't make me ashamed... Though I do think they should have just strung these dead terrorists up in the trees by their legs and left them to rot.. you know... like these terrorists strung their buddies legs up in the trees to wave around for days... (why was THAT not in the news by the way?)
This GP is a Pakistani paid service, pee on him.
uh... happened 2 years ago... the NEWS is that the general broke the law... then tried to CYA it. And if you are ok with that just because you don't like what these boys did – ask yourself – if YOU were charged with a crime – do you want one person to push all others aside to be your judge, jury and executioner... Because THAT is what this general did – and it is illegal for him to do so.
First, to those Alzheimer victims commenting on "we shouldn't be in Afghanistan": the Taliban were co-conspirators with al-Qaeda in attacking the US, an act of war, so we have every right to be in Afghanistan. Our error was in not reinstating the draft and instead redeploying those who had the courage to fight for our country multiple times, compounded with not initially sending enough troops to crush the Taliban/al-Qaeda within a year or two (Iraq could have waited, it & Saddam weren't going anywhere.
Second, unless you have been in combat, been wounded and seen your brothers-in-arms wounded/killed, you really should keep your trap shut. Yes you have a right to an opinion, but it lacks validity.
Third, it was dumb to film this, and backstabbing for some traitor (to his unit) to post this on the net. But then again I don't think anyone should be filming anything in a combat zone (especially self-serving journalists) without it being censored, like in WWII. The media really screwed over us Vietnam vets, and most of us combat vets of that war won't ever forget or forgive that b.s.
Last, all those who are so offended by the actions of a few battle-wearied & burned-out Marines, since you had the "courage" to criticize these Marines, show some real courage and march on down to the Marine recruiter and enlist (for an infantry MOS). Or are you all hot air and no commitment, too busy playing X-box war games. You pukes make me sick.
Sorry but the "unless you've been there you have no right to judge" line is complete bullcrap. Millions of other troops have served in combat across our nation's history without engaging in disgraceful behavior like this. That alone proves that the capability to withstand the horrors of combat and still maintain a sense of morality and decorum exists. If these Marines can't handle the stress of combat without engaging in such behavior, then they shouldn't be Marines.
Jmacq1
Care to share with us YOUR outstanding combat experience??? NOBODY talks about the crap WE deal with because of the stigma associated with it. Have you stood beside your best friends and watched them be physically destroyed as you stand there? Have you had to collect the left over body parts of your friends when they were blown up inches from you??? NO? Ok, don't pretend that you have a clue as to what I dealt with in Iraq and Afghanistan. You have NO CLUE what it takes to be a Marine.
These animals who prey on women, children, and old people got exactly as they deserve. Twice. It is really very simple, you don't kill Americans and we won't kill and pee on you. 'Nough said.
well put