FIRST ON CNN: Top Marine’s alleged comments in Taliban desecration case draw scrutiny
By Barbara Starr
A senior Marine general said in an extraordinary sworn statement obtained by CNN that the head of the corps wanted several Marines kicked out of the service for their alleged roles in urinating on Taliban corpses - even before any charges were brought.
Lt. General Thomas Waldhauser told military authorities in the sworn statement on Tuesday that he had a private meeting in February 2012 with Marine Commandant Gen. James Amos, who had just named him to lead the investigation and possible prosecution.
"I do not remember the exact words or sequence of what was said, but the CMC did make a comment to the effect that the Marines involved needed to be 'crushed,'" Waldhauser said, adding that the "CMC went on to say he wanted these Marines to be discharged from the Marine Corps when this was all over."
Waldhauser's statement was made as part of the record for upcoming court martial proceedings against two Marines involved in the case.
The Marine Corps said that Amos would not comment on the matter.
At the time of the meeting, Waldhauser had been ordered by Amos to become the "convening authority," which meant he was to handle the investigation and potential prosecution of several Marines allegedly involved.
The incident occurred in Helmand Province in July 2011 but did not come to light publicly until more than six months later when a video was posted on the Web. The video inflamed tensions over the U.S. presence in Afghanistan.
Under military laws governing what is referred to as "undue command influence," it's illegal for commanders more senior to the primary investigating officer to take any actions or make statements to pressure the outcome of a case.
The Pentagon's inspector general is investigating whistleblower allegations that Amos did just that.
Waldhauser's statement is a rare view into private communications at the highest levels of the U.S. military. At the time, he was the senior commander for all Marines serving in Afghanistan.
Waldhauser now serves as the senior military assistant to Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel.
The former commander said he told Amos that he did not believe the cases warranted general courts martial, which could have resulted in their dismissal from the corps.
"The CMC told me that he could change the convening authority on the cases, and I responded that would be his prerogative," Waldhauser said in his statement.
By any measure, a commander in Amos's position would not be allowed to essentially switch prosecuting jurisdictions because he did not like the potential outcome.
The matter took another turn after that meeting. Waldhauser said he received a call from Amos's deputy saying the commandant "was upset and regretted the conversation he had with me."
Waldhauser said Amos felt he had put his own office "in a bad position." Shortly after that, Waldhauser said he and Amos spoke directly and the commandant "admitted that he had crossed the line."
Amos moved the cases from Waldhauser's jurisdiction and gave them to another general.
In a February 10, 2012, memo to Waldhauser, Amos said, "I believe some of my comments during our recent conversation could be perceived as possibly interfering with your independent and unfettered discretion to take action in these cases."
@natlsecuritycnn on Twitter
These men were doing what warriors sometimes do, disgracing their opponents. This was not done to harm any living person. Warriors should be allowed trophies and actions such as this. War by itself is a horror, this is nothing close to that.
Yeah, we should live by the rules of barbarian hordes of the dark ages! Rape, pillage and plunder, because we're warriors! YEAH!
I'm sure that'll do wonders for good order and discipline in the military.
So the Commandant General of the Marine Corps apologized and allowed him to move the case to another jurisdiction to avoid any pressure he may feel as a result of their conversation. Then this guy still whined. Take the apology accept it at face value and move on people. He was upset and after he was given time to compose himself he realized his overstep. This seems more like an attempt to get the media and public involved in a case that you can't win.
Bingo! I think we have a winner.
What it comes down to is that the military discharges people for having affairs on their spouses.
Urinating on the enemy is a much more serious matter as it leads to revenge attacks and helps the enemy recruit more terrorists to fight the "evil" American.
In both cases however, the offender of either of these acts brings discredit and hurts the honor of their family and their country.
The CMC committed a CRIMINAL ACT.
And then he DISHONORED his oath by trying to cover it up.
THAT is a far bigger problem than a handful of Marines peeing on some dead terrorists.
Lt Gen Waldhouser is acting the way Marines are supposed to act: with INTEGRITY, telling the TRUTH even if it harms his own interests.
General Amos has demonstrated that he does not have the integrity to be a Marine any longer.
This whole thing is overblown. What they did is not going to effect the local population at all.
1) It will anger the Taliban. So what? They already hate us and want to kill us.
2) The people fighting against the Taliban are not going to care what we do to their bodies. They probably are cheering.
3) The folks in the middle are just trying to survive. With IEDs blowing up, attacks by the Taliban and drone strikes by us, the last thing they are going to get upset about is one side p**ing on the other. We blowup weddings with drones and think this will make people angry? LOL.
The marines should be given a minor punishment and then returned to duty.
I agree. What they did was wrong...but it was an immature mistake made in the middle of a war. It should not be condoned, but politicians who sit at their desks and send these guys to kill and die for THEIR causes shouldn't make a public example of them either. They should be busted down in rank and fined heavily...perhaps mandatory sensitivity training...and be done with it.
why don't we just let them say they are sorry and wont do it again. this is all it takes if you are a politician
No doubt Chesty Puller is looking down, smiling and saying "These are real marines. Carry on Leathernecks!"
Chesty Puller would have cut the ears off the dead terrorists and made a necklace.
If you believe that our warriors are better than the Taliban, than you can't allow our warriors to stoop to their level.
Besides, actions like these just make it easier for the Taliban to recruit even more terrorists.
I need to object to your comment. Stoop to their level? I don't recall ever hearing about an American serviceman cutting off the head of the enemy (while still alive) with a dull machete. You need to get some perspective before you make a comment like that. These guys had just been through combat which is very stressful. Any chance you have ever spent time defending your country in a war zone? I'll bet not.
That's a coward's response, J-Man.
Anyone can use the "they're worse than we are!" argument as an excuse to refrain from holding our troops to high moral standards. It takes guts, character and heart to posses standards that endure independent of your enemy's depravity.
Also cowardly: questioning another poster's lack of service, as though his or her lack of it precludes their ability to hold a valid opinion on the morality of corpse desecration.
Its more to that than stooping to a low level... The Marines have no right to slander the name of the US Army.... I am not saying human laws do apply to Taliban and all Muslim nutjobs per se...but ther's a line that differentiates us from them....
I did my 4 years of honorable service in the USMC, almost made Sergeant in those 4 years. I admit I was an 0151, but this 0151 was a 3x rifle expert, had a 1st class PFT throughout his service, served as a range coach, brig chaser, command driver, graduated Corporal's school as a squad leader. In addition, got my NAM and good cookie, to go with 5 meritorious masts and two cercomms.
One final note, I served under Col James F. Amos at HQ, MAG-31 from 1996-1999.
There are videos of our military using the heads of "terrorists" (dead civilians?) for soccer game, taken by military and shared. We're no angels.
The only opinions that matter here are those of the veteran "grunts".
Sorry to tell you that you are wrong.
None of the opinions matter here. The only opinion that really matters is the one of the judge who will be trying the Courts Martial.
We lost the war in Afghanistan because of Washington, D.C. poiticians and feminized generals.
Why do we care, these men fought this battle and saw things we will never understand. These Taliban creeps deserve nothing but disrespect and I think the soldiers have every right to do whatever they want with the trash they come across, they do it to our soldiers everyday that they kill some and that is if our troops are lucky enough to be killed and not tortured. Our soldiers do not deserve any punishment, they went into hell on a request of our country and we should never forget that no matter what choices they made in an environment like that. They did not disrespect their own. I am not ashamed of them and would welcome them home with open arms.
A soldier that does these things to the enemy deserves nothing but the same in return. If these were american bodies youd be up in Arms but for some reason its fine that Americans do it
The Taliban does a lot worse to those who fall into their hands.
You're safe fat and happy in America because there are men like these Marines defending you.
No one ever proved they were Taliban or terrorists. Could have been civilians. Military can't tell the difference and don't care.
He shouldn't have said anything, but the rage is understandable as he knows full well the actions by these Marines got others killed and maimed in the blowback retaliation, and added to the enhanced rage over the past decade causing the spread and growth in criminal terrorism, and happened long before we here knew about the actions they took!! And now one of them has brought more by his public statements that he would do it again!!!!!!
USN All Shore '67-'71 GMG3 Vietnam In Country '70-'71
Good thing I wasn't there.......I would have dropped a deuce on em.............
I would just tell them to think next time and realize that posting something will cause issues. These guys are under so much stress give them a break everyone.
sound ////off Sound like your getting beat down?? No exmarines to the rescue? good luck???????????
You can shoot them, bomb them and detain them but what ever you do, don't urinate on them.
Clueless....
THOSE IN SUPPORT ARE BEYOND CLUELESS...! (give em a break drrrrr)
If you have never experienced combat, you have no business judging this incident.
Seriously? People who have been in combat or not have every right to speak on this matter. As an individual who as seen combat this is a disgrace to the military. They shot the Taliban, they should have buried the bodies, and that should have been that.
Obviously his comment does not apply to you, then.
henry spare us
This is not how the US Military is supposed to act.
It was sad to see what these guys had done.
A warrior has respect for other warriors.
.
Hate to clue you in but there is NOTHING about the Taliban that could be construed as them being anything close to a "warrior".
To put it simply, they are cowards of the first order and deserve nothing but contempt from our "warriors".
Lots of civilians were killed for sport, then called "Taliban." Never proved up, boys, that these bodies were Taliban. Can you dispute?
I tend to agree with you but not when it comes to the Taliban. They use women and children as shields, mentally disabled people to carry out bombings, and have absolutely no regard for human life. That doesn't justify what these guys did. They should be better than that but at the same time what they did is nothing close to the atrocities carried out by the Taliban.
Yes, the Taliban and al-Qaeda are complete animals...but Americans aren't supposed to devolve to be more like them. Yeah, it's idealistic to say, but when you are fighting people as radical as the Taliban, it's really the only way to beat them. Urinating on their dead accomplishes nothing but whipping them into an even more ferocious rage...which gets even more people killed in the long run. It's incredibly disrespectful to urinate on a dead body. You don't have to like what the Taliban believe in, but like them or not, those are some fierce warriors. Most Americans aren't as willing to die as readily for this country as they are for their religion to such a fervent and fanatical extent. Respecting that fact doesn't imply that it is something that should be considered as being OK. But the Marines involved acted dishonorably...and we know this because they videotaped themselves doing it.
US 1776..... Have you ever heard it said that war is hell? Warriors? What kind of twilight zone are you spaced out in? Our soldiers fight in hell my friend and unless you've been in that special hell keep your mouth shut.
So only we Americans who suffer through hellish experiences in combat get a pass? Last I checked, there are two or more direct belligerents in a war...and countless NON-DIRECT victims. Can a local Afghani who had his family killed by an American drone get a pass for killing 20 Americans then?
Warriors..............LMAO. The Taliban are nothing but cowards who not only hide behind women and children they openly murder civilians as a means to strike fear in their own people. Those towelheads are nothing but murderers and cowards.
And you are an uninformed racist. It's ok, lots of military are, they are trained to be that way. How else can they get you to go to hell and back and feel like you did something right? Sad. Lots of suicides among you say more than you can here.
NO RESPECT is given to any enemy of the United States, clueless. Put away your video games and join the real military so you can see evil first hand.
When you serve with honor, I imagine you'd experience this type of behavior on a very personal level. I am sure the officer involved felt that way. No excuse for violations procedure, but understandable.
Those idiots SHOULD BE CRUSHED, DISHONORABLE DISCHARGES, and ALL Veterans Benefits cut out!! HOW STUPID can someone be? I was in the Infantry, and NO ONE BEHAVED this stupidly!!! THE PC Police have gone crazy, and the General was doing his job, especially as the CMC!!!
Wow! You were in the infantry! Must have been in peacetime.
He was one of those weekend warriors.............LMAO.
If anything, you were a cook or truck driver.
yea NICK we usually like to put the "non intelligence" in the field first ...
Mr. Brewer,
I don't normally write on these things because I don't think it's worth our time or energy. But your comment made me so very upset and I'd like to educated you. I'd like to you tell me directly that my husband doesn't deserve medical treatment for the rest of his life after being blown up and nearly dying from an anti-personnel IED. After you go on our website, http://www.supportrobrichards.com, and find out the whole story of his service and background, you may actually see things a little differently. MY HUSBAND deserves to be taken care of for the rest of his life for the IMMENSE sacrifice he has made to this country – his mind, his body and nearly his life. Your ignorant comments about his benefits being stripped because he was brave enough to return to the fight makes me nauseated.
your husband shot a man and peed on them?
Raechel, I believe you misunderstood his first sentence. He didn't mean your husbands benefits, he meant the benefits of those involved in the incident. He meant ALL veteran's benefits of those involved.
He wasn't talking about your husband, ma'am. Sorry for your misfortune.
Actually, I didn't misunderstand the comment. My husband is Sgt Richards. The one in this story. You aren't getting all the facts.
Dishonorable discharge=no VA benefits ever.
Administrative discharge=severely limited benefits (usually none)
General discharge=few, if any, benefits.
A DD typically only occurs when laws are broken. I don't know if peeing on dead enemies breaks the LAW technically...but it is extremely dishonorable. Anyone defending them doing that is wrong. A general discharge is possible, though.
That the CMC did this proves a point that many have yet to realized: he's not a true warrior; instead he is a political hack who was selected over true warriors (General Mattis comes to my mind) simply because he would kowtow to the liberal leaders who are desecrating the Marine Corps today. He is an aviator, who dropped bombs from thousands of feet above the battlefield, instead of having to fight in the trenches where you can get yourself into a world of hurt.
The fact that he has adopted the incorrect and emasculating policies of this administration indicates that he shouldn't occupy the office of CMC. He betrayed the warrior ethos in pursuit of becoming CMC.
My hope is that we, the grunts, will get a true warrior commandant in the next administration (if Clinton isn't elected) that will hopefully fight for the Marines, and limit the political correct policies (such as women in infantry.)
Wow. You are one clueless individual. The military aren't Conservatives. The military are American citizens that are LIBERAL, INDEPENDENT, AND CONSERVATIVE. My god I hate people like you that think there is only one group of people in the military. Also, speaking of someone being a political hack, you sound like one perfectly.
I'm guessing you were never in the Marines, or Army, if ever in the military. Truth be told, he is a weak leader that bends easily to the pressure of our left leaning members of congress.
morg I have been in the military and guess what? I ignored the politics and just did my job.
now I know your a demo. hey is that the donkey or eleph. I think u are standing behind one or the other Wait?????? were you a general in the sevice of your country?? please don't kick me out?? why don't u take a back seat to this story?? most of this garbage don't work for me ?? we called this stress relief have ...U ever been in a real fire fight???????????????
sound off what is a true warrior?
I served in the Infantry as well and retired as a Colonel. What Amos did was stupid, not based on political correctness. Officers are taught from their basic course as Second Lieutenants through general officer orientation that unlawful command influence is not just illegal but also unethical and prejudicial to the maintenance of good order and discipline. If the Commandant has to tell a three-star general how to dispose of charges, then the entire validity of the chain of command is called into question.
Wow, you don't know anything about General Amos do you?
Like most Marine Corps pilots, he served as a forward air controller as part of his career progression and coincidently he did so in Vietnam. So no, he hasn't just sat in a plane and dropped bombs. He's been on the ground with an M16 helping to direct attacks on forward positions behind enemy lines.
CNN – picture up this time SHOULD be of Amos.
Describe the photo above...
A) Honor
B) Courage
C) Commitment
D) None of the above
you conveniently forgot to add the real answer : add "E" = Disgrace!
And that will be the answer.. these marines who did this are a disgrace to our country's marine corps. this is not how America acts.. sorry!
A disgrace? Would you have said that to my husband as he was bleeding out from the throat, laying the desert sand, thinking he was going to die? Would you say that to him when he volunteered and re-enlisted to go back after recovering from the wounds he received from an anti-personnel mine? I beg you to go do a little more research on my husband before making comments about his service. He's done more than 99.9% of Americans for his country and I think he deserves an ounce of respect. Go to http://www.supportsgtrichards.com and then let me know if you need to insert foot in mouth.
watch the news more. americans do much worse to each other on a daily basis
H. Heroes
a mistake by young men that were put in a bad position by old politicians. lets hope they don't go overboard with any punishment that my be handed out to these men
We don't need the courts- save all the money and just let this general Amos make the decision on every case.
Why have a justice system when one person can decide everything for everyone for every case? That will save us a ton in tax dollars – we can get rid of all those NCIS investigators, prosecutors, defense attorneys, judges, etc!!!!!!
We should do the same in the civilian courts too! Just THINK about all the money we can save the tax payers!
So are you just tongue in cheek – or do you really think it is a good idea for one person to make the judgement on every person in the Corps (or civilian)? Wow...
Sound off no body is hearing u espl. me check your brain into the nearest hospital(nut) I like sarcastic remarks but this is too much? ....Change your name to hitler castro then you will have control?????or NOT
Before thinking about this, I read the creed of several branches of the military. I found pledges of honor, loyalty, discipline, fidelity ... nothing about urination. Clearly these individuals do not represent the honor and integrity of the entire body. This was surely foremost in the mind of General Amos in making these comments. Perhaps they were irresponsible remarks. But I share his feelings as I'm sure millions of other American's do. The obligation of a proud nation is to constantly work at the things we're so proud of. Necro-urination is not one of these things.
Uh – the article is about the COMMANDANT breaking the law this time. What are your thoughts on that?
Go read the full stories on marinecorpstimes - he did FAR more than make a few comments.... CNN is glossing over it... glossing WAYYYY over it.
You are out of your mind. Just like a judge can give improper instructions to a jury, a commander can give improper instructions to the convening authority.
Neither is "breaking" the law, they are violating due process, unless they correct their error which Gen Amos did.
Well ... yes ... CNN does tend to do that. CNN isn't news ... it's a large dysfunctional brainwashing machine. So is Fox. So is ...
Don't train young men to be killing machines, invade a country half way around the world and expect civilized behavior numb nuts
Obviously you were never a part of the military. We aren't trained to be killing machines. We are trained to protect and serve our country with honor, courage, and commitment.
You are a POG.
Amos I am not a POG. I am an American citizen that joined the military and served two tours to protect this country you live in. I suggest you join the military and understand the concepts of it or stay home in your little bedroom and keep playing your war video games.
Tell me, oh brave and honorable one, how do you sleep at night knowing you killed or assisted in killing innocent women and children? How do you feel going home to your own family knowing you support the extermination of someone else's? You must be brave, indeed!
Ally I have not killed women or children so I would not know. Why don't you ask someone that would know?
First off, they are not killing machines. That's a Hollywood thing. Marines are disciplined warriors that fight with Honor.
The group that did this wasn't neither disciplined or honorable and deserve harsh punishment. I think office hours would be appropriate but since they recorded it and it somehow ended up online, they will have to face even stiffer penalties so that every Marine knows that such behavior will not be tolorated.
Discipline and honor mean everything to a US Marine and these rejects do not deserve to wear the Eagle, Globe, and Anchor with their R Kelly impression.
And yet they were in Afghanistan, closing with and destroying the enemy.
And you? You weren't. You werre sitting on your asss back home, safe and sound, shoving deep-dish pizza in your noisehole in front of a big TV.
I wish I was rich, I would pay $10,000 dollars a head for Taliban corpses. Kill them ALL! Then they won't be mutilating anymore little girls who only want to go to school.
You've paid a LOT more than $10K per corpse in that war! I was all for hitting back after 9/11, but it's time to move on, and the behavior of those soldiers was unacceptable. Besides that, I'm sure that is a prime recruiting subject used to add many more foot soldiers to their cause. Not that our enemies won't mutilate/abuse our dead – I remember Blackhawk Down. I also remember the fury I felt inside as a result of it! We tell ourselves we are better than they, and we should be.
As far as I am concerned, the only mistake these Marines made was sharing these photo with others. I will submit we are already WAY past the point of "don't hurt their feelings" with the Islam extremists.
Seriously? We aren't worried about the Taliban or Al-Qaeda being killed. What most of us is worried about is the retaliation to our military and how our relationship with the Afghan community dropped to an all time low and possibly getting several Afghan individuals to join Al-Qaeda or the Taliban against because of what those fools did.
They should be crushed and discharged. Same with the Marine who threw the puppy off the mountain.
These guys aren't making things easier for us, they create more bad guys. They are nothings and we don't need them overseas.
ID
3rd Ranger Battalion
Iraq and Afghanistan veteran
Just the facts where was the lead man in charge??????????
They should be crushed and discharged? okaaay
How about they ALL just leave these people's country? Muslims don't hate the West because of our way of life. Muslims hate the West because we are in the East! I thought we established that there are no weapons of Mass destruction in Iraq and I thought we would have enough common sense to know their sticks and stones and homemade bombs will not harm us if the military pulls out.
I can't believe there are people actually defending this behavior. True, I don't know what its like to be on the battlefield, but it seems to me this would put even MORE troops at risk. This is the sort of behavior that radicalizes Muslims that may not have become radicals in the first place.
If you don't want death, violence, and mayhem, don't send the Marines. If you send the Marines, don't act surprised when they lay waste to anything, everything, and everyone in their path. And they're not going to be polite about it either.
They were DEAD already. The Marines should have just buried them and been done with it.
pretty much
CS CNN
The ENTIRE Middle East needs to be flooded in urine, then turned into a glass parking lot.
Take your hatred some where else. Stop being a fearmonger.
ANIMALS. Those Marines should receive a DISHONORABLE DISCHARGE. As a veteran and a retired Army 1st SGT, we train our soldiers to KILL effectively and efficiently. We also have to win over CIVILIANS for future military and Geo-political purposes. The conduct of those Marines was DISGRACEFUL. They are not Marines.....THEY ARE NOT EVEN MEN.
POG if you think the Army's job is geo-political... or you are just lying.
Regardless of military training, 18 and 19 year olds will always have a lower level of maturity than someone closing in on their 30s. Give these kids a break and view it as them celebrating life as it could have been them on the wrong side of the barrel instead of those they disposed of.
They behead soldiers and civilians on camera, drag our bodies trough the streets, burn bodies and hang them from bridges, these are the most vile and disgusting human beings on the planet EVER, D A M N RIGHT I'll urinate on them all day long!
Semper Fi
DEATH to islam
Death to Islam? That just shows you are a prejudicial fool.
Death to Islam. How free thinking of you.
agreed
The same thing happened in the US civil war, albeit with fewer cameras. It sucks when you invade a place and the people fight back in ways you don't like. If ever we are living under an invading/occupying power in the US, let's be sure we're very welcoming and nice, so maybe we won't get urinated on by the heroic and brave foreigners on our soil.
My question would be what idiot: 1) shot the video in the first place, and 2) didn't erase it immediately.
my question – what rat brother of theirs sold this to TMZ, because the case articles said these boys were not the ones to post this
Honor, where is the Honor in desecrating the bodies of our enemies?
Marine Corps Core Values, Honor, Courage, and Commitment.
Don't see urinating on the enemy as a tribute to any of those values.
Where is honor in Commandant BREAKING THE LAW? Ask yourself NOW why women do not report assault – and you will get it. When the Commandant goes behind the scenes and removes anyone ruling authority in which he does not like the decision being made (because ALL of them including the courts report to him) – then you now have your real answer on why there is no justice system in the military.
You are mistaken in thinking the CMC broke the law. He made improper statements to a subordinate that could have influenced that subordinates objective carrying out of his duties.
He corrected this by replacing the subordinate with an untainted subordinate who then convened the courts martial.
So he didn't break the law, he simply violated procedure.
DUDES – you are not understanding the story – you are just looking at the 2 year old picture... The Commandant broke a REAL law...
As usual – the BIG RICH DUDES break laws unimpeded to CRUSH the little poor guys... these boys were combat fatgued and mourning their dead friend... fine.. don't like what they did... but do we really want some rich desk jockey general breaking all the justice laws? WHO ELSE IS HE BREAKING THE LAWS ON SO THAT HE CAN CRUSH THEM BEHIND THE SCENES? Women reporting assault?
So who broke the law and violated the corpses? The little guy?
Actually – no law broken... just a ROE... and if you READ the court cases going on... you will see that their hearings did not even focus on the video... but rather things like not wearing uniform correctly (snipers don't wear helmets)... firing gun when shouldn't (repairing a misfiring weapon)... etc.
It's called article 134 of the UCMJ.
And it's a real law.
swylrpr – if you actually read the trial and legal debates – you will find that there was SOOO much desecration on whether urinating could be considered desecration by the legal since of the word. That is why their article 32s focused on everything BUT the video...
You should read up on article 134 of the UCMJ
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punitivearticles/a/134.htm
Under article 134 ANY act that violates good order and discipline can be punished. So it doesn't matter if they urinated, spit, stomped, or did anything that would bring dishonor to the military can bring a charge under this article.
The Marines got shot a by untrained, ill equipped farmers with a rusty rifle, slippers, and rags, who cant see in the dark, dont have any armor or air support while the marines are trained, and equipped with simple things like boots, helmets, nightvision and body armour, never mind the choppers and jets they always call in or the support they receive by armored vehicles. Those poor poor marines, if only they had lasers coming out of their eyes then this never would have happened. Those that are proud of insignificance will never be significant. I support soldiers fighting and dying for their country but don't make an azz out of yourself. You really believe in honor? then live it.
Seal....yea right SEAL
What BUD/S class did you say you were in there Mr. Honorable....
No, SEAL, the black singer with the f ucked up face.
Our marines are educated trained warriors, not a band of ignorant stone aged thugs. Try and remember that when you compare the actions of The Few and the Proud to the Taliban. A professional solider completes the mission.
Hey Seal, I'm going out on a limb here cause 1st I doubt you've been in their situation. 2nd, you sound like one of those sanctimonious arm chair warriors who have no clue what that kind of battle fatigue can do to you. 3rd oh the hell with it.... you're an idiot!
AMEN!
Seal – Ever kill anyone? If not you don't have a vote, a comment and your seriously unqualified to make any kind of judgement – that makes you as big a fool as the Marine General who probably hasn't been any closer to combat then the dining facility. If you've killed in combat then you can respond, other then that crawl back into your hole.
The marines pee was a lot cleaner than the Taliban, so if anything the marines did them a favor by peeing on them!!!!!
pretty much
The perps are dead. The urine will hep slow down the decaying process. These perps have been using dirty tricks on us, themselves, their own people, and these marines. They don't deserve anything but indignant treatment.
They should have just been buried and it would have been done with. I think the military needs to start enforcing the term "honorable" in their training exercises again.
They should recieve a medal.
They will, several in fact.
This incident, like those that occurred in Abu Ghraib, is disgusting. But the most disgusting thing is those draft-avoiding war profiteers in the previous administration who disgraced our country by starting unnecessary wars based on dubious reasons. They should be the ones tried in court. It's too late to impeach them.
The only thing they did wrong was to take pictures. No prob with their actions, basically urinating on a pile of manure. no biggie. F them. Semper Fi
The Few, The Proud, The Urines.
Cleaver.
Good for the General. These guys are an embarrassment. I hope they were crushed an dishonorably discharged.
You cannot dishonorably discharge a service member for that, genius.
This doesn't suprise me...I don't blame the command for being upset although I can understand the Marine's POV. That said, in the 80s there was a US Army division that was so corrupt the Commanding General was fixing courts-martials and the Sergeant Major was such an alcoholic that he would literally careen down hallways in the middle of the day. Fortunately both of them got held to account and were quietly retired.
This is what war brings ladies and gentle men. The problem here is not what they did. But the things leading up to it and why. No one looks at the bigger picture of war because it is accepted as normal but in all reality it is really just a harm to us as a species. We need to become more human being than animal. and this right here (war) will bring that out in most of us.
I'm dismayed by the comments here. Have people lost all sense of human decency?
How would we feel if our soldiers' bodies were being desecrated in this fashion? We'd see the same people who are on here justifying and excusing the behavior screaming for blood.
People need to remember – before you speak, think about the other side of the coin. Yes, these soldiers are putting their lives at risk and have reason to hate their enemy – but that doesn't mean you disrespect them to this degree. What you do to your enemy can just as easily be done to you.
hardly anyone with ethics would join the military complex..what would you expect different from innately violent people?
Do you realize you are an idiot or are you completely unaware of that fact?
Excuse me Mr/Ms Martin,
You have no idea what you are saying. Just because somebody joins the military they have no ethics? Quite the contrary, I was in the Marines for over 20 years working well over an average of 50 hours a week for the duration. Not only was I doing my regular job, but I also had to maintain physical fitness requirements, went to school, was responsible for multi-million dollar accounts, was responsible for my subordinates and to my seniors. It is true we do have our 10% in the military that give it a bad name, but look what you have in the civilian sector. On the other hand I work for and with some of the greatest people I have EVER met. I have been to over 35 different countries working Community Relations and Project Handclasp events with the locals. We have worked to improve schools, orphanages, and hospitals. What have you done? This was not under orders, these were volunteer positions that myself and many, many others did instead of going out sight seeing.
Your insinuation is disgusting and disrespectful to myself and my brothers and sisters in arms. You have no idea how many young people join the military to earn money to pay for college. You have no idea how many young people earn their degrees while serving this great nation. You have no idea how capable these young people are, because you are the same person that says that they have no ethics.
The enemy is not human. They are barbarians who stone people, cut off heads and shoot little girls for going to school. Its sad that you have any compassion for these animals.
That is what Hitler said about the Jews as he exterminated them, "they weren't human".
It is easier to kill when you can 'dehumanize" your enemy.
grow up.
Oye!
@greg I don't recall the jews strapping explosives to their chest and blowing up a bus station or throwing acid in a young girls face for going to school.
Except the issue isn't compassion for the enemy. The issue is Marines taking actions that could lead other people to perform MORE barbaric actions against them and their brethren. Or causing those that had not previously taken arms against them to do so.
uh... their buddies legs were being dangled from the trees... duh
What do you think of when they sit there and cut the heads off of our soldiers when captured. Still, should they have done it...no. These guys are mentally and physically fatigued with death all around them. Blame the ppl who put us there in the first place.
This may have been covered already by a concurrent poster but this comment is idotic and noninformed as to the reality that is ours. I am a Corpsman (battlefield medic) with the Marines and it is because uninformed people such as yourself with bleeding hearts whom feel sympathy for our enemies that would rape and murder both your sons and daughters if given half a chance. They would defile the females in your life just because they could given the oppurtunity. They would behead and desecrate the bodies of your family members simple for following a different religion or way of life. The American public has forgotten the tenets of war. The purpose of war is to simply annihilate your enemy beyond any form of reprisal or the motivation to commit reprisal. There is no purpose to 'winning hearts and minds'. What of the British soldier who was killed and mutilated on the streets in Britain? The last time I was in country, we would get reports over the net of soldiers going missing. If we were lucky enough to find them, their bodies would be horribly desecrated. You want us to think of the other side of the coin before we speak... how about you think of your own side of the coin instead of siding with primitive cattle sodomizers who do worse to our dead than we ever do to theirs. We should only follow the dictates of the Geneva Convention of those that show us the same civilized courtesy.
So you're totally OK with the other guys doing all that stuff you listed right? Because they're fighting a war, too, after all.
"War is hell, and if you haven't been there, shut up." Allen West
The rest of West's comment was ".......and being an out of work politician is heller.........."
The CMC is complaining about the very thing that he is doing, violating the UCMJ, article 132. If he wants the book thrown at those Marines, out of fairness, he should have the book thrown at him.
Of the Marine Corps core values, the very first is Honor. Desescrating the body of a fallen enemy is a direct violation of this principle and deserves the harshest of condemnation.
If we expect a higher standard, we must be the higher stander we expect. When you roll in the mud with pigs, you become a pig yourself.
Well put, except rather than call honorable enemies 'pigs', maybe just stick to 'foreign freedom fighters' or something like that.
We do all realize that our Iraqi and Afghanistan enemies are fighting a war of independence, right? We won our own in 1776, these guys haven't won yet.
But you have to admire them for fighting the imperialist invaders.
The comment about rolling around with Pigs is from an old cliche. The enemy is simply the enemy to a WELL DISCIPLINED US Marine.
Got it ... that's fine.
True soldiers realize there are soldiers on both sides. Neither side is 'right' in war – just 2 combatting armies, and the better trained or stronger army will beat the enemy.
Soldiers are just citizens who sign up to fight to defend their country. It is a job. All soldiers, enemy or friendly, should be treated with the respect we treat people doing their job.
Remember that the United States is the greatest nation in the world...fubar...with twisted religion, morals, and values galore!
No surprise listening to ignorant civilians discussing military protocol and the Geneva convention.
I guarantee that 90% of you blogging for these soldiers would have made excellant Nazi citizens, and all of you would've applauded cooking American soldiers alive once captured.
As George Zimmer would say: "I guarantee it". American's have no honor or pride or morality anymore – just hate for anyone who isn't like them. (and of course, most of these haters also hate most other Americans, especially if they are not White Males).
TROLL!!
Seig Heil JJ ... sounds like a language you would appreciate.
Why capture enemies when we could just be Nazi's? Let's hear it from the JarHead crowd here on that one! (by the way, I respect real Marines, you know, the one's that follow the Geneva Convention?).
you will be happy to know several have had body parts blown off since then
Body parts happen during war. War is hell. People die. Soldiers on both sides are just citizens signing up to defend their nation. Soldiers deserve respect – they are just doing their jobs. God knows that soldiers are not making the military policy – they are just implementing it.
KARMA
Marines are trained to fight and kill. That is our main function. What these Marines did was an embarrassment to the Corps. They should be punished. The enemy will do things we find horrible and disgusting. We must not go there. If we do, then we are no better then them. God bless America, God bless the Corp, God Bless all who serve and their families. God bless all who came before and those yet to serve.
God d-it... stop God blessing everything! It just makes me cringe. God is just a theory and She sure has an ugly sense of 'humor' if you think any of all this 'blessing' makes any sense at all today.
Should a dropped a deuce into each of they mowfs. This shouldn't has been filmed anyway.
What would Gunny Highway have done? I rest my case..
How about "just don't take a picture of it boys"
It's only fun when you take pictures.
O'Kay lets make war P.C. now jeez!..............Semper Fi Marines. I say this to the world that thinks the west has gone soft, one day you turd muslims will go too far and then you will see how war is really waged.
What do you think would be done any different? All conventional assets are being used already. How is war really waged? Are you referring to commiting war crimes? Right thats the American way. You want us to commit war crimes while also saying that we are about rights and freedoms and laws. what better description of an idiot and hypocrite.
So what, when I was in Vietnam guys cut off ears and hung them on a string, war is harsh and if you haven't been there don't judge. Good job Marines the enemy is dead.
Good job? Yes, I just want to have Marines committing disgraceful acts and ignoring the dignity and honor that is the Marine Corp.
As a Combat Veteran all I can say is there is a reason the Military has a Dishonorable Discharge category. Members of the Armed Forces are required to live and fight with honor, period. Any intentional desecration or mutilation of the enemy dead does not dishonor the enemy but dishonors the person who did it and more importantly dishonors the Unit, Service and Nation he/she represents. Any excuse to the contrary is just that an excuse for the pathetic, weak, coward who has no honor.
I fought with honor, most of my fellow Veterans did so too, no excuse for these few who are not worthy of being associated with us.
You act like they cut out their livers and ate them, a little p p never hurt a dead guy.
Amen.
uh ... it was already ruled that what was done does not amount to mutilation and debate on descretation by the legal sense of the word... and IF you actually read the charges and followed these trials – you would see that their article 32s were not even about the video... but about charges like improper wear of uniform... kind of like the cop that pulls you over for speeding and then writes you up for a resisting arrest without violence when you ask "why".
And my "amen" was for The Truth's comment, not for the knucklehead that replied to him.
Well said, Truth. Amazing how so many of those defending the Marines with the "They were in combat so you can't judge them!" defense are completely ignoring the millions of servicemembers that have fought with honor and dignity across our nation's history. Obviously it CAN be done, and that example alone informs us that disgraceful and dishonorable behavior should not be tolerated from our troopers just because "They were in combat!"
Let's remember these are combat Marines and cut them some slack......poor judgement, you bet, horrible conditions yes, bust them a rank and lets, move on.....anyone whose has been in combat regrets alot of the things they do to stay alive and motivated to get back to the world.........if the Marine brass had any brains they would publicly berate them and privately shake their hand and but them a beer.....this is just one old marines take
At the worst, they would have shaved them bald and sent them to the Rock!
An old marine you may have been but I doubt you ever made it to General with that kind of thinking. That's why idiots like you stay at the bottom of the ranks and are told what to do.
This is the new "feel good" marines. They go after their own much harder than they go after the enemy. Going after their own sure is a lot easier than closing with and killing the enemy.
These guys did NOT post this video... This general SHOULD have gone after whichever Marine stole the video and sold it to TMZ to post. THAT is the one that made this anything more than another field incident.. Nowhere have I read in any of the reports that they are even trying to hunt down that guy...
This former Marine Staff Sergeant agrees with the Commandant completely. They brought total disgrace upon the Marine Corps and put their fellow Marines in far greater danger through their disgusting actions. Their platoon commanders and platoon sergeants should have all been kicked out as well.
IF you really were a SGT – you would KNOW that it does not matter what the CMC THINKS.. It is ILLEGAL for him to do what he did. How would you have liked him to bust you out of the corps if he did not like something you did without a fair trial? In fact- how would you like to be standing in line for a court martial and have the evidence to defend you classified top secret so your attorney can't get to it, have Marines that lied under oath shielded, and have him dismiss anyone of rank who is ruling in your favor out of the ability to rule for you? Seriously? WHY have a justice system?
If you knew anything bout he Marine Corps you wouldn't refer to a Staff Sergeant as a SGT, Army boy.
Actually – swyrlpr – I was not bothering to type out the full rank – because I don't believe he is one. or even served in the military. Whole point...
Take your big picture and stick it where the sun don't shine. Nothing I hate worse than a snot-nose who never served a day outside his diapers, disparaging those of us who did serve (11 years) and still feel a sense of loyalty to the Marine Corps and pride as well, because we did a darn good job at everything we did.
Well said, completely agree. Also questioning the three-star's decision to go public on a private conversation, especially following the CMC's decision to retract his comments.
Lol...this 3 star just threw the CMC under the bus...what think you are going to the get the role? Not likely.
And.. Are you SERIOUSLY telling me this general has been WASTING our tax dollars on this for 2 years when we are having to rift military and civilian forces? These boys should have had their Gunny's run them through the swamps till they wish they were civilians, and been over with it – 2 YEARS AGO when this happened. This General has a screw loose somewhere!
Why is this even a story? This is barely even a half story.
General Amos made a statement in anger, that he later apologized for two or three times, and even had the prosecution placed under another officers responsibility and explained why, in writing. Don't see the big deal here.
Having seen what the Somali's did to our troops in Mogadishu, can't say I feel sorry for the Taliban. What the Marines did was stupid though, and speaks volumes to the lack of discipline enforced by the NCO's and chain of command.
I'd like to see the results of the CO's mast proceedings to see how many of the NCOs and officers got their rear ends handed to them, with a letter of reprimand that guarantees the termination fo thier careers for this, but I imagine that got swept under the rug...
no – General told Waldhauser to fry the dudes... later realized he broke the law and sent a CYA email... but then still took the decision to rule over the dues away from General Waldhauser... ... and- if you read the other reports on marinecorpstimes you will see he had staff classify evidence to make it hard for the defense to get to it, protect some Marines involved including one that apparently has not told the truth under oath, and all sorts of other stuff...
The spoils of war ! I commend them !
I would have said, "Don't do that anymore." ...and moved on.
That's why you're not a significant leader, and if you ever become one it wont be with ideas like that.
They did it all wrong, they should have put pigs' blood all over them and then placed the entrails in their mouths. Why waste good urine on these POS?
If you saw what happened in the days before this, I for one would have given them a medal. This is a completely different culture then ours and the only thing they understand is violence. Semper Fi bro!
Hoorah !
The only thing THEY understand is violence? Look at your comments and thsoe like you, theyre all about violence. Dont give me that BS that you only support it because they do it. You like violence period. And what happened jus before? The Marines got shot a by untrained, ill equipped farmers with a rusty rifle, slippers, and rags, who cant see in the dark, dont have any armor or air support while the marines are trained, and equipped with simple things like boots, helmets, and body armour, never mind the choppers and jets they always call in or the support they receive by armored vehicles. Those poor poor marines, if only they had lasers coming out of their eyes then this never would have happened. Those that are proud of insignificance will never be significant.
BIGGER PICTURE HERE FOLKS... who cares what the incident over there was... all the legal talking heads have already gone through that stuff TWO years ago... it is squishy law at best that they broke anything other than their good conduct stuff.... but for this GENERAL – He broke a VERY WELL DEFINED LAW... He KNOWS he broke it which is why he sent the CYA letter.... And it is this type of obvious and blatant corruption from Generals like this that keep the women from reporting rape, etc. If you read the marinecorpstimes site on this case and others – this is NOT the first time this CMC has violated the justice laws. Would you want your son/daughter subjected to this guy every time he is in a mood to not like your kids... to go tell the prosecutors and generals (all of whom report to him) to fry your kid? That is WHY there is a LAW that says he can not even say anything about the case. Boot the general... his actions are worse than the boys...
Did you read the article?
General Amos did exactly what protocol requires. He replaced the convening authority that was tainted by his direction. No law was broken because the tainted investigator didn't convene the courts martial.
Marines are trained to fight and kill. That is our main function. What these Marines did was an embarrassment to the Corp. They should be punished. Yes the enemy will do things we find disgusting and against the rules we follow. We must not go to there. If we do we are no better then them. God Bless America, God Bless our Men in Uniform. God Bless all before and all to come.
Sometimes blowing off steam gets out of hand. Our crew-served weapons instructer always used to say, "kill em and eat em." Now, we knew that was a joke, but several of those types of comments from the higher-ups begins to sink in. I dont condone their actions, but I wouldn't have been dumb enough to record it. Brass are always going to say things like that to appease the civvies..
Marine could have walked away with muslim world commendation, had they beheaded Taliban alive, or stoned them to death.
War isn't what you see in commercials, movies, or what a General thinks it should be more his air cooled office and chair. You put 20-something year old kids into a war-zone against an enemy that is willing to shoot little girls who are on their way to school, and you'll see stuff like this. Can't hack it? Don't want that kind of stuff to happen? Then pull out of Afghanistan.
Can't hack discipline and professionalism? Then don't join the Marines.
The radical muslims within the Taliban tell the normal muslims that American soldiers do this to muslims as a way to hire more people to their cause. We, in an attempt to persuade the muslims to fight agains the radicals deny doiing this to their people. Then videos and pictures surface that show that American soldiers DO desicrate their dead and suddenly then normal turn radical. Would you rather our soldiers fight a few hundred, or a few hundred thousand? This kind of behavior is wrong, no matter which side it comes from.
CNN – now would be a good time to tell people what REALLY happened that day – and perhaps about just how disabled some of these Marines are that this General has been wanting to CRUSH. Why have we never seen on TV the story about their buddies legs being paraded around for days and hung in the trees? I have ONLY seen that on the military news reports, and on their support sites. Why haven't we seen the bloody pictures of some of these men who have been blown up and are now permanently disabled while this fly-boy general does nothing buy add more criminal investigators and prosecutors to the payroll to go after all military – and focuses on what uniform the troops should wear?
The general, I suppose, did cross a line, but those who get off on urinating on corpses should be kicked out of the corps and those that seem get off on their actions should be kicked out of this great country.
And you have served over there how many times? Gotten blown up anytime lately? Seen your buddy blown up in front of you lately? Done 3 – 4 tours in that rat hole lately? Go do so – and come back and say that.
We should be better than the enemy. Doesn't matter what they did or do, we are better than them and must act accordingly. When we sink to the enemies levels, our actions become no better, possibly worse. We should be proud that our generals are willing to ensure that our troops follow proper protocol.
And you have served over there how many times?
Not yet old enough to drink but old enough to go romping around getting shot at by religious zealots. We count on them to volunteer for the job from all walks of life, and then become appalled by wartime conduct that we read about from our la-z-boys.
the only thing that was out of place in this whole scenario was the camera.
semper fi devildogs.
Does seeing that photo make you feel like a man jb? Does it make you feel all tough inside?
I expect better of our Marines. I have every respect in the world for the men and women who do the things I could never do to protect our rights. But this leaves me very disappointed and mad.
How about you go over there and try doing what they did and then say you "expect better". And who exactly are you that expect better?
And who are you to judge otherwise?
USMC why don't you zip it. I am sure you have never been over there period. You are just trolling looking for an angry response. Also I have been over there for 2 tours. I have seen what happens to our soldiers, but unlike people like you I retain my honor by not seeking revenge.
AMEN USMC!
You are so correct. I speak from no experience what so ever. lol. And I'm the troll. sure sure. If you served your tours then my hats off to ya. Just tell you at least left the FOB. Oh, and are you a Marine?
@What is going on? FREEDOM, spoken like a true fobbit...
USMC I'm not even going to bother telling you what unit or branch I served in. You are just trolling and were never a part of the military. I am sure you have never been over there and it is a disgrace to have you parade as a Marine in uniform when you probably have never served.
Crush them sounds about right. You having fun in your discussion with Megan? They are a disgrace. 1 2 3 4 You shouldn't be Marines any more. 1 2 3 4 Pack your bags, get out of my war. Right on General!
Please feel free to step in front of these brave men and lead the way.
After the "pucker factor" has receded, the boys need to wind down.
I thankful they don't collect like some did in Nam, Republic Of.
Please feel free to step in front of these brave men and lead the way.
After the "pucker factor" has receded, these boys need to wind down.
I thankful they don't collect ears like some did in Nam, Republic Of.
Duck for cover, FREEDUMB is going psycho.
To.. What's going on Freedom... you are a POG.
oh really – and what would YOU do if your best friends legs were paraded around in front of you and hung in the trees – while your stupid Govt tells you that you can't shoot the terrorist while they do this until they take shots at you? AND – while that same stupid Govt sent you over there with a brain injury to begin with and did not tell you about it. And that same Govt had people lie in their testimony / investigations... READ the actual cases and articles and support sites on this... not just the head lines. What we have done to these poor guys is what is disgusting!
My father and my brother were both Marines during WWII and the Vietnam conflict. They saw terrible things, from hateful enemies yet they still retained their dignity and honor. It's called discipline and these guys don't have it.
What do you expect going into war?
Unfortunately the work related stress, PTSD applies to only the human beings of the USA. How wrong is that. But hey, one who has the fire power wins in this world. Cannot do much about it. We do not live in an ideal world.
If these is no doubt at all that these were Taliban insurgents, I have no problem with their actions. If knowing this is their fate if caught, it may stop one person from taking up arms and killing innocents. They should bury the remains with pig blood. War treaties should be respected for living individuals, but once dead, they lose all right to dignity. Again, only when we're positive they are Taliban i.e. suicide bombers etc.
You didn't mind them holding up the severed heads of American dead then did you?
And of course, most likely, these were just innocent civilians, like the other 500,000 civilians we killed in Iraq/Afghanistan.
Oh well ... no surprise why America was the target on 9/11.
um... to the poster who thinks these were innocent civilians... ha ha ha ha I guess you missed all those news reports about the major fire fight they had with these guys – or their buddies legs being danged in the trees after being paraded around?
I am not American, and them holding up the heads of anyone that they killed with such joy is exactly the reason they deserve no respect when they go meet Allah, who will then send them off to the fires of hell. I personally believe that if they ever found body parts from the 9/11 hijackers they should put them in a pit with an outhouse built over the top and let the people of the world show them what we think of butchers.
They absolutely were insurgents and the previous day had severely injured one of their comrades and took his leg into a village and hung it up on display for all to see. Read the back-story. While what they did was grossly unprofessional and they should be held accountable this was not a court martial offense. The ones that need to be court martialed are sitting in Washington and changed the rules of engagement that allowed our WIA/KIA to increase almost 100% after this president was elected.
Those Marines are without honor and have no sense of tradition. In war, true warriors respect the enemy. These Marines are little more than punk thugs with heavy weaponry. They have brought shame on themselves, their families, the Marine Corp., and the United States.
I agree. Our military shows respect to other people. We don't just insult and disgrace the enemy just because they are different from us. Also we have honor then the Taliban. Taliban executes one of our soldiers on tv and then our military does the same to a Taliban member. What happens? We just lost our honor. Something that every person in the military has worked on for centuries.
"We don't just insult and disgrace the enemy just because they are different from us."
No we do it because they are trying to kill us and they don't care at all about your honor. These people believe women are property to be treated as cattle. They believe in stoning and beheading you because you draw cartoons they don't like. They love to mutilate bodies for whatever extreme religious/political reason they can come up with. If you think peeing on some dead bodies hurts our honor, then you don't know what the word means.
And you know what it is like to fight a war Erik? Punk thugs with heavy weaponry? Care to say that while not hiding behind the comfort of a keyboard?
Unfortunately, regardless of where it is said, it is true. Thugs with heavy weaponry.
The good old USA always tries to "glorify" war, and being a soldier.
War should be a last resort. In the good old USA we are always itchin for a fight just to flex our muscles.
sad
Tradition? What tradition? Rum, sodomy and the lash? All militarys have a tradition of mutilating enemy corpses. In this case they didn't even do that much. We ask men to go out there and kill other humans and then get all upset when they do something silly like urinate on dead bodies. Keep your self righteous indignation to yourself.
Hey Erik...Join up and do a few 13 month tours over in the sand box in the Crops or Army as a grunt and then come back and talk to me about respect. See a few of your comrades beheaded, strung up on bridges, drug behind cars, corpses mutilated and respect goes out the window really fast. If making their corpse unclean and negating their trip to paradise works, regardless of the manner, by making even just a few think twice before picking up a weapon, who cares. These are not uniformed enemy soldiers but rather gang members with towels on their heads, They deserve no mutual respect or honor. They are bearded thugs...
uh – no sense of tradition... think again if you think they are the only ones doing this... but in one way you are right... in Nam they cut off the ears and made necklaces out of them...
I don't agree with what they did but neither am I in their shoes constantly looking over my shoulder to see if someone is there to blow my head off or if someone has strapped a child with a bomb in order to kill me or seen the mutilated bodies of both comrades and innocent bystanders at the hands of insurgents. We have no idea what they live with every day because we are in our cushy little world while they sweat and protect us. It is easy to judge when you are not wearing their shoes. I can tell you i think I would never do this but if someone hurt my child, or any child, or someone I loved, I would be the first in line to cut off anything that is important to them. Sad, but true
They are there to 'protect' us? They are 15,000 miles away.
A better way to 'protect' us would be to stop murdering their women and children.
Question is, why you are even there ?
To satisfy personal goal of being World wide policeman and killing people who are trying to get their land back ?
I am not a afghan fan or anything but I believe every country has their own law rules and they have right to follow them.
"neither am I in their shoes constantly looking over my shoulder to see if someone is there to blow my head off or if someone has strapped a child with a bomb in order to kill me or seen the mutilated bodies of both comrades and innocent bystanders at the hands of insurgents."
Uh, tell me one thing, Margaret... How did urinating on dead bodies help the marines to keep someone from blowing their heads off? How did it prevent any bombings? How did it reduce the number of mutilated bodies?
In fact, didn't it do the exact opposite? The news INFLAMED their enemies – putting them and their fellow marines in MORE danger!
It's really too bad that ignorant people like these marines and YOU can't seem to get that through your insipid little vengeful minds. Besides, aren't WE supposed to be the good guys? Or put another way, how much bleating would you do if this had been done to OUR dead soldiers?
Just don't wonder why 9/11 happened – goes around, comes around.
Disrespect the enemies dead, their religion, and rape their little girls, as we do.
Just I don't want to hear anyone whining or moaning the next time they bomb the Boston Marathon or knock down our skyscrapers. War is war, and those acts are just our enemy fighting back.
Think much? You hide it well
Wow ... now that was really clever troll.
"I know you are but what am I?".
I'm surprised you can type you old coot! But you are good to laugh at.
Sound like a pansy to me. Like them so much how about you ship your ass over there?
Look little McCain - everyone on here knows you are not military, and you're not former military.
American military personnel are trained.
I suppose you could be that American soldier who killed all those little boys and girls, and then the mom and dad, and then raped all the teenagers. Now that sounds like the type of soldier you are.
Keep on talking and you'll bring about another 9/11 ... just like y'all earned it in the first place.
I don't agree that they should have done that. Doesn't say much for the characters of these men, but in extreme situations like well, war, people who shoot at you and threaten you and have no mercy for you, you probably want to pee on them at the very least even their corpse. It's going over the edge and is sick, but war damages people.
What they did their fellows serving in heightened danger of retribution and vengeance. IMO
I mean, what they did PUT their fellows serving etc.
Jesus would have peed on these guys too.
You clearly haven't read much about Jesus have you?
Why read fairytales?
I commend them for stopping at number one. We need a medal to no or such restraint.
His angry, rash words remind me of when those marines peed on those talibans
Why were they punished in the first place?This was WAR. They were peeing on guys who would cut their throats and not give it a second thought. Job-related stress maybe? Come on. Let off these guys. Free them.
So we should keep them in the military and have them represent our honorable military members young and old? I think not.
I imagein you feel the same way about the Arabs who held up the severed heads of American military folks?
That was pretty funny also wasn't it?
Kan't b r
Sometimes you just gotta go, you know.
These pukes don't deserve to wear the flag of our country.
I have a hard time agreeing with this practice.
because urinating on the bodies of terrorists that would kill your family the second they had the chance is bad
We're over there to keep the Taliban from gaining control of Afghanistan and have a good image with those that support us over there. What do you think happened when most Afghans saw the photos and video?
That's correct. It is wrong. Those of us who serve or have served know the rules and agreed to abide by them and to face the consequences when we didnt. Those Marines disgraced us all.
LT? Is that you? That aint the tune you were singing when we were there! If you are the person I think you are, being two faced is normal for you. And if you are not the person, I apologize. EVERYBODY FIGHTS, NOBODY QUITS!
First off, they are Marines, not marines. Second of all, anyone who doesn't understand why this is a serious issue worthy of disgust doesn't understand anything about the Corps. Marines pride themselves on being consummate professionals, and the last thing any worthy Marine would do is bring shame to the Corps. Pack your trash.
'Nuff said.
1. Gen Amos is the first aviator to be named Commandant. I would imagine an infrantyman would have been upset, but understanding that these Marine peed on a couple of Taliban who were, moments before, trying to kill them.
2. The article said the Marines could be 'dismissed' following courts martial: 'Dismissed' is a term for officers being adversely discharged. Enlisted Marines are discharged (Honorably, Other then Honorable, Dishonorable, etc).
3. This smack of undue command influence, and I'm surprised that the Commandant is involved at all: This happened in Afghanistan, not in the United States: The commander in Afghanistan is ultimately 'Commander, U.S. Central Command', who should have courts martial authority – not the Commandant.
I thought trying to kill the enemy was what war was all about.
If an enemy fought and died honorably, it's a disgrace to desecrate his body.
I served under General Amos with HQ, MAG-31 when he was the group skipper. The man is above reproach and has the highest possible integrity so it's very telling that he was quick to admit that he stepped out of line.
What's disturbing is that the private conversation between the Commandant of the Marine Corps and one of his subordinates is being aired out in public. Now if General Amos had acted improperly after that conversation this would be a grievance perhaps worth airing. However, recognizing that the convening authority was potentially tainted by his comments he did the right thing and replaced him with someone else who would not have been given improper directions.
General Amos is a great leader and I am truly proud to have served under his command.
Thanks Jeff
Honestly I agree the individuals needed to be discharged. Not only was it a disgrace to men in uniform, you just inflamed the Taliban even more and the actions possibly caused more American military deaths.
Cnn jus t being a good lap dog.
Seems to me it was a nice pysop message not unlike hogfat dipped bullets. An unclean isl^mic corpse will never make it to "paradise". Whatever you need to do to keep haji away from his virgins. It tugs at their will to fight wondering if they'll be made unclean.
No, it inflames them to fight harder, and reinforces the image of Americans as imperialistic pigs. You simply have no idea what you're talking about.
This is why the US is hated in much of the world. It was not enough to kill these people, they had to desecrate their bodies as well. And then we wonder why people want to fly planes into our buildings.
agreed. Well said
Have you seen what THEY do to captured US service men? Shut up and crawl back into your hole hippie.
So the proper response is to lower ourselves to their level? Eye for an eye, and all that? Then the cycle will never end, and the war goes on forever. If we're not better than they are, then we have no justification for complaining about what they do.
They do it because cowards like you keep us from kicking their ass
SO it's okay when we disrespect their dead, but but bad when they do it to us? And they do it to us so we can do it to them? That logic makes no sense to me. If you want to preach that we are the superior and more moral people, then act like it.
I guess you enjoyed 9/11 then ... since you want more 9/11's.
Put another Republican in office, and you'll get a whole bunch more falling buildings. Fool.
jarheads...hard on the outside and empty on the inside
Stupid Marines? And you're saying this from the comfort of your fat ass I'm sure. If you weren't there then STFU. You have no idea what the stress are that these men were under.
*the stress these men were under
We are hard on the outside and on the inside. Nature of the beast. If you have EVER been in the Marines you would understand this. The only mistake they made was being photographed. We do a job that NO ONE wants to do. WE are the tip of the spear. When we do good things, people are happy. When we are still doing good things, like saving the lives of Americans, and something bad happens, everyone thinks that we are bad. You go do that job and see if being a grunt is all it's cracked up to be. WE get the job DONE. period!
Well said brother! Semper Fi!
Ooh rah!
I never got to deploy and was never a grunt but the way I see it grunts are some BAMF's and as Marines if we don't got each others backs then who will? because i know one thing the civilian population sure as hell wont.
and another thing...is it just me or is the Corps getting soft?
If thats what we are, then we are proud of it and will keep on winning the battles!
Everybody wants to be a hero, die in battle, tell war stories just like the movies........
Most of us grow out of this at age 10 or so.
Our military stopped being heroes after WWII. Now, we are just living on the legacy of our last victory where true heroes defended our country.(for real)
The current excuse that we fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here is just an excuse by politicians for aggression. Got to use the military or you can't justify spending billions of dollars on it.
This is disgusting behavior...our military can conduct themselves better. Defiling the bodies of our fallen enemies is not part of our military code of ethics. We are to treat the bodies of the fallen, friend and foe alike with dignity. This is what makes us honorable, civilized and decent people.
That's right. We're nicer about killing people!
Read to the bottom, Amso regretted his words and admitted he had crossed a line. Everyone gets upset and says things they regret, but this man had the honor to admit he was wrong and attempt to rectify the undue influence.
Yes it sounds like he was trying to cover his @ss.
He was covering his major A for breaking the law... and he STILL changed the convening general after that email to someone who would "CRUSH" these boys (several of whom – if the press actually would do a story on them – have lost limbs and other body parts since all this happened... and some of whom are permanently DISABLED now...they have paid enough in my book).
In case you don't know why this is so Major if BIG DEAL – this General's behavior in BREAKING THE LAW is the same reason why hundreds of women won't report rape... they KNOW generals like Amos are SOOOO corrupt and pulling the strings behind the scenes that they are wayyyy too afraid to report anything!!!! Thank God we have some whistle blowers that report the illegal actions of this General. At MOST these boys deserved to run 100 miles in the heat for what they did (go read their side of the story and see if you still thing so after what really happened that day ).
Sounds to me like the General might need to go also. A lot of young people were punished, but only one woman in the upper ranks. No men. Hmmmmm
The only stupid thing these Marines did was allow themselves to be photographed/recorded while doing it.
Would you feel the same way if it was the other way around. Og wait it's only disrepect when they pee on our guys. Regardless of how you feel about the taliban, that's still someones son, father, or brother. Your not going to help the hate these people have for the unite states with behavior like this
Absolutely not would i feel the same way, i wish we could pee on all their heads.
Do you really think they will ever have anything other than hate for us?
Well great...then I don't want to hear any outrage when they do the same to our soldiers, since you both think it's okay behavior.
How about the fact that you should not urinate on enemy corpses. It goes against human decency.
"We’d cut them in half with a machine gun and give them a Band-Aid. It was a lie.”
We're such a odd bunch. We can blow people to bits and call it justified but if we relieve ourselves on a pile of organic matter we (some number of) are outraged. Very weird.
Disgusting, not worthy of the brotherhood of Semper Fi!. A disgrace to the men who died on the sands of Iwo Jima and the Punch Bowl.
Relax old timer.
Well said Bill.
Hey Steve, grown up, teenager.
Trust me, far from a "teen"
Josh-
He's right i was being highly sarcastic and these marines should be rewarded for what they did.
No kidding "Bill Jones" we should do alot more than just pee on these bodies. They'd brutally murder your whole family and not think twice about it and for you to say these marines aren't worthy like you were some flagship marine vet is just ridiculous.
So we're supposed to base our behavior on how terrorists behave?
We're the good guys remember?
Where the beacons of hope and maturity.
Not even looking at how their behavior is disgraceful, it also enrages the enemy.
Kinda like poking a hornets nest because you think it's funny.
The repercussions are not funny to the other servicemen/women that receive their wrath.
You do realize that everyone can tell by the little pic thing that your talking to yourself? ????? Retard
They should receive a direct commission so they can lead more marines.
You’re completely naive or delusional if you think this same sort of thing and WORSE didn’t happen there.
I agree, however, these boneheads decided to post what they did to social media! ;>
Seriously dude – you think we did not do worse there? ha ha ha ha ha