After four years Air Force “confident” it has found F-22 problem source
July 31st, 2012
07:19 PM ET

After four years Air Force “confident” it has found F-22 problem source

By Larry Shaughnessy

An imperfect valve, a filter meant to protect pilots from chemical and biological threats, and decades-old vest technology combined to cause problems that grounded the state-of-the-art F-22 fighter jet, according to Air Force Maj. Gen. Charles Lyon, director of operations for Air Combat Command.

"We determined with confidence the source of the unexplained physiological incident resides in the F-22 cockpit," Lyon said.

The Air Force has been investigating why a number of F-22 pilots have experienced a mysterious loss of oxygen while in the air, causing dizziness and confusion known as hypoxia, since spring 2011. Oxygen problems that have caused hypoxia-like symptoms in pilots and ground crew members have occurred for the past four years.

In recent months, Air Force officials, under pressure from Congress and Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, have searched for a root cause of the problem and have thoroughly examined the system as a whole and found what they believes is the cause.

"In the end there is no smoking gun," Lyon told reporters at the Pentagon Tuesday during a briefing laying out the details of the findings.

The Air Force found four main components to the cause of the problem:

- The upper pressure garment, or vest, that the pilots were wearing

- The oxygen-delivery hoses on the vest

- The valve in the quick connection point in those hoses

- An air filter on the hoses designed to filter out chemical and biological agents

The Air Force had checked each of those parts of the system independently and they all worked as expected. But only once had the service checked the entire system together.

"There was a rudimentary testing that was done on the vest and it said that it inflates early and that it impedes the mobility of the pilot in the cockpit, and that was it. They didn't study the long term physiological impact of having this inflated," Lyon said.

After that rudimentary test was done, the entire F-22 fleet was grounded, but is now flying with limits on how high the planes can fly and how far from a safe landing strip they can go.

Some critics had blamed the dangerous chemicals on the plane's exterior that help make it stealthy to enemy radar, but the Air Force ruled that out.

"How did we eliminate contamination as the root cause? We did this through months of exhaustive testing on flight tests and line operational aircraft. We poured over aircraft involved in incidents. We analyzed thousands of samples of gases, volatile and semi-volatile compounds, solids, liquids and particulate matter. We compared these samples to occupational hazard standards and we checked the levels in incident aircraft and pilots against non-incident aircraft and pilots - we found nothing remarkable," Lyon said.

Blaming the vest and the attachments doesn't answer why six ground maintenance crew members, who don't wear the vest, complained of hypoxia-like symptoms, including dizziness and lightheadedness.

Lyon blamed hunger and thirst.

"If you haven't eaten normally or you haven't fully hydrated, those type of things can begin degrade your personal performance," Lyon said. "These folks had some of these symptoms, which are ambiguous for other things that could happen to them so they reported based on that so there's a chance their diet wasn't right that day, they didn't have the hydration level that they needed."

Lyon also said some of them may have been sickened by exhaust from the jets they were working on.

As for the F-22's future, the hoses, filters and vests will be redesigned before the F-22 returns to fully operational status.

But Lyon warned that the problem will never be entirely solved. "There will be physiological incidents in the future in the F-22 and other aircraft - that goes with the territory of high performance fighter aircraft and flight operations."

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Filed under: Air Force • F-22
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  19. the breeze

    Glad to hear it,the plane is supposedly BAD ASS

    August 15, 2012 at 3:49 pm | Reply
    • Plane Nut

      the breeze

      Glad to hear it,the plane is supposedly BAD ASS

      Well, I'd think you were off by 3 letters, but we shall see

      August 17, 2012 at 4:35 pm | Reply
  20. 2012marandalaw

    Sorry If I Mis Spelled...Something,But..Saving a Life is more important to me,Then "Spelling".

    August 3, 2012 at 4:08 pm | Reply
    • the breeze

      getting on someones spelling is the NERD way of fighting back

      August 15, 2012 at 3:50 pm | Reply
      • Mark

        So called "nerds" are the people who actually build things, like these aircraft, and who actually help to improve society...unlike you, you trailer-park cretin.

        August 15, 2012 at 5:15 pm |
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    Here in Downtown Cleveland Ohio..They had A Pole Dancer Display..And Now,"Bomb Treats"..Everywhere.I am not a Stupid Human Being.Someone better..start Paying Attention.

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    Now they have Thrown 4 "Bad Mitin"..Teams,Out of the Olympics..For Manipulating their way to the Olympics..So Again..I say this Serial Killer..Had Help,At Some Point.

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  25. Gordon

    Seems like nobody here has heard about the real culprits: the pilot's air supply system, and the fuel additive TCP, a neurotoxin infamous for its use in adulterating alcohol-based medicine (Ginger Jake) during the Prohibition, which killed and paralyzed many people. This accounts for ground personnel, not just pilots, being affected. See WMR.

    August 2, 2012 at 3:31 pm | Reply
    • EvilWorm

      Finally, a person with a intelligent idea of what it wrong. Chemical poisoning.

      August 21, 2012 at 7:01 pm | Reply
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  28. larry5

    This is bleeding edge technology and very complicated when all these systems and methods get combined into a self propelled unit with a pilot at the controls. We're not going to get the details because of security considerations. What we will hear has been through many filters to make sure the words and music are "correct" for public consumption. With tensions high in the world the F-22 might just have its chance to prove itself in actual combat. These problems will be solved and that's how technology advances.

    August 1, 2012 at 2:17 pm | Reply
    • NN

      The OBOGS and associated delivery systems for pilot life support are hardly top secret material.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:01 pm | Reply
    • Killer O'Bama

      Thank you, larry5. I need idiots like you to back me up with these killer planes. After all, we need to kill off as many of these towelheads as possible and with simple minded people like you, that'll be all the more likely!!!!!

      August 1, 2012 at 6:10 pm | Reply
    • Bleeding Edge?

      This plane has been in the works for something like 25 years plus. Very little bleeding edge about it, just overly complex due to scope creep and preoccupation with gee whiz toys in the puzzle palace.

      August 16, 2012 at 7:45 pm | Reply
  29. Phunnie boy

    Gee, this is the best news I've heard in ages on end! Now with these wonderful F-22 Raptors we can slaughter more people than we could before! I'm as happy as a cow with 6 tytts over this and I can go singing forever and a day!!!!!!

    August 1, 2012 at 1:33 pm | Reply
    • CommonSense

      @ Phunnie boy.... please refer to my post a couple below yours. When some country or terrorist state decides they want to attack the US someday in the future, remind us normal people to put your hippy gun control, no military ideological and socialistic butt on the front lines, so you can explain it to the bad guys why it is you can't fight back. Morons.

      August 1, 2012 at 2:05 pm | Reply
      • Killer O'Bama

        Thank you Common Sense for posting the above. It's a goog thing that most people like you didn't finish high school or otherwise these defense programs of mine wouldn't stand much of a chance!!! But then again, the M.I.C. owns most of Congress whch helps me a lot so we'll get these killer planes off the ground in one way or another!

        August 1, 2012 at 6:15 pm |
      • CommonSense

        @Killer O'Bama... you're an idiot. Typical liberal talking without facts or anything else to back it up. Make an argument instead of blabbering. And I'll guarantee I'm way more educated than you are. I'll let you stand next to Phunnie boy on the front lines and fight with your hands. Actually, you'd probably just curl up like a coward and fly a rainbow flag.

        Not putting up with other Nation's Shlt is how America became great in the first place. Your completely arrogant to think there aren't people / nations that want Americans dead. If we had 0 military and Iran was capable they'd march right on over here, and probably bring a few friends.

        America has been this way forever. We are also Great, Free, and Home of the BRAVE. You don't like it go to another country who is like you are.... say France? I doubt you'd get the welfare there though that your currently mooching here.

        August 2, 2012 at 7:47 am |
  30. NN

    The Air Force investigation of the problem is inconclusive, incomplete, and hopefully not finished. The real story is about what you get when they are pressured by politicians who have no clue of or appreciation for the complexities of the technology. The Air Force simply gave them a quick answer in terms of something they could understand. Only time will tell if the redesigned vest is the answer obviously, since future O2 problems either will or will not occur, doh.

    August 1, 2012 at 1:23 pm | Reply
  31. CommonSense

    Are you serious @Smoking Gun? We don't need a next generation fighter? How blind can you liberals be??... Both China and Russia have equivalent fighters. Maybe we should just drive F15 and F16s around and let other countries rule the world with superior air power. I'm sure Poland thought investment in military was stupid too, then Germany face stomped them and laughed the whole way. I can't stand how dumb anti-military people are. The world is not a 'Nice' place, you have to protect yourself, and the best way to do that is have bigger and better technology. It IS a priority.

    I say to solve budget issues we get all of the people off social security and disability who are actually fine and able to work. They all voted for Obama for a reason. You ever been down south and saw how many worthless people live off the government and are 200% obese? Whats wrong with that picture? Maybe 1% actually WANT to work. Prime example of government hand outs to people who are unwilling to be anything other than worthless.

    "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work, and give to those who would not" -Thomas Jefferson

    ... who by the way was much smarter than any of you fools, and actually played a huge part in DESIGNING the freaking country your trying to ruin.

    August 1, 2012 at 10:19 am | Reply
    • Elephant In The room

      You sir deserve a PGA tour golf clap

      August 1, 2012 at 10:22 am | Reply
    • wavejump1100

      you actually think we should spend more money on defense than helping old and disabled people? we already spend a ridiculous amount of money on defense. why do we need ten aircraft carriers when no other country even has more than one? so we can spread democracy? we need to mind our own business and stop telling the rest of the world what to do and we could cut military spending in half. money should be spent on education the elderly the siick the poor and space exploration, not on more ways to kill people.

      August 16, 2012 at 7:52 pm | Reply
    • Rick from LA

      So you rather have us fly the best US fighter that can kill US pilots? Also F-15 has never lost a dog fight.

      August 28, 2012 at 4:07 pm | Reply
  32. Valkyrie612

    Does anyone posting here ACTUALLY know what they're talking about??

    August 1, 2012 at 9:59 am | Reply
  33. meumokie

    The problem is probably the system components that are manufactured in China.

    August 1, 2012 at 9:58 am | Reply
  34. tim

    or is the problem really that the defective part was made in China?

    August 1, 2012 at 9:44 am | Reply
  35. smoking gun

    the smoking gun is that this was a piece of sh!t jet that never should have been built!! Why do we need to spend money on planes? They haven't prevented us from being attacked, and its just wasted taxpayer money.

    The US overestimates its US military needs and this is probably the biggest issue with our government. The military spending is sold to the nation as "support your troops" – but its really "support my military budget and catapult the US into the largest national debt we have ever seen.

    August 1, 2012 at 9:20 am | Reply
    • George Patton

      Quite true smoking gun, quite true. It's nice to see a sensible post like yours amoung all these stupid ones posted by all these idiotic warmongers here!!!

      August 1, 2012 at 9:41 am | Reply
      • arkmark

        All you have to do is google our national budget to see that almost half of all spending is Medicare and social security with defense equaling "discretionary spending" code for we really cant account for what is spent. While I agree that our current nation building is a waste of time and money they are only acting on our political leaders orders and thus need the money or we would have none to repair or replace what is being wasted.

        August 1, 2012 at 9:56 am |
    • arkmark

      while the f 22 has been a boondogle from the get go it is NOT defense spending that is breaking the bank it is our out of control social spending.

      August 1, 2012 at 9:43 am | Reply
      • George Patton

        Of course it's this so-called "defense spending" that's breaking the national budget, arkmark! By the way, just who have we been "defending" these days, anyway? Such foolishness being posted here!!!

        August 1, 2012 at 9:48 am |
      • sanders

        While I agree with your post about spending on social programs, it almost sounds like you advocate for defense spending, which from what I remember is to the tone (in dollars) of as much as the next 10 nations on the spending list combined. You cant actually sit there and say that spending this much is justified, you just cant. Cuts in it all!!!

        August 1, 2012 at 9:53 am |
    • Matt

      You're right that there is too much military spending. However, that's not what caused the largest national debt we've ever seen. In fact military spending has not increased sense Obama took office.

      August 1, 2012 at 9:46 am | Reply
    • Bigubu

      As they say in Football (American Football), the best offense is a good defense. Yeah lets just get rid of the F22, and all our modern aircraft and go back to flying Sopwith Camel By-Planes to defend our nation. The U.S. wouldn't last a year. The F-22 is the most advanced fighter jet ever built, and the U.S. has a very small number of these jets. Even with the few F-22s that we have the U.S. could take out the entire airforces of any other nation on this planet. Why do we need these? As I said before, the BEST offense is a good defense. You enjoy the freedoms that you have here in the USA don't you? Well, if you want to keep them you have to defend them.

      August 1, 2012 at 10:16 am | Reply
    • Chris

      Yeap, thats the answer. Lets go back to flying WW1 era aircraft. You will see how long we last when we stop having the most advanced technology. You won't be able to sit here and talk against the government thats for sure, not when we are apart of China!

      August 1, 2012 at 10:27 am | Reply
  36. jt_flyer

    Great news! Now fix these issues and allow this bird to do what it does better than any other in the world... fly.

    August 1, 2012 at 9:16 am | Reply
    • George Patton

      Such is to be expected from someone like you with your limited Tea Party thinking. This warmongering does get awfully old and how!!!

      August 1, 2012 at 9:44 am | Reply
      • Chris

        Cause liberal thinking is the solution to everything right???? If the liberals had it their way we would be a third world country. Take your peace and flowers and shove them where the sun dont shine!

        August 1, 2012 at 10:08 am |
      • Elephant In The room

        and this response is typical of the opposing side... politics is great ain't it?

        August 1, 2012 at 10:09 am |
  37. Chris Honry

    I think it is caused by GEORGE BUSH! It's his fault! LOL Libtards

    August 1, 2012 at 9:15 am | Reply
  38. John Taylor

    Which is it? Since spring 2011 or the past 4 years?
    Reference: F-22 pilots have experienced a mysterious loss of oxygen while in the air, causing dizziness and confusion known as hypoxia, since spring 2011. Oxygen problems that have caused hypoxia-like symptoms in pilots and ground crew members have occurred for the past four years.
    In the article, it doesn't state that some of the pilots that has symptoms WEREN'T wearing their vest at the time. I wonder why the General didn't mention it either.
    Looks & sounds like more BS as when they put the planes back in service

    August 1, 2012 at 9:05 am | Reply
  39. Texas

    How about wearing a pulse oximeter ? That will prove if the problem is fixed and also give early warning of hypoxia.
    Yes it would have to work underneath your gloves I suppose.

    August 1, 2012 at 9:02 am | Reply
  40. What happened to editors?

    Pored, not poured.

    August 1, 2012 at 8:22 am | Reply
    • mattski


      August 1, 2012 at 8:30 am | Reply
  41. kit8

    It appears that the problems that grounded a multi hundred billion dollar program can be traced to items that are very easy and cheap to fix. I bet the real problem is another cover up not working properly.

    August 1, 2012 at 8:14 am | Reply
    • jimmymax

      Most likely they haven't found the cause yet, but came up with this story to appease their higher-ups. When the Military tells you anything like this, you can be almost 100% certain you're not hearing the truth.

      August 1, 2012 at 8:28 am | Reply
      • Texas

        I agree! But the wise general did say "there is no smoking gun" which is his CYA statement.

        August 1, 2012 at 8:57 am |
      • Matt

        Why should they tell the truth about it? I understand these are multi million dollar aircraft paid for by us tax payers, but if I was an airforce pilot, and there was some weakness of my aircraft, I certainly would not want to advertise it...even if they arent currently flying the f22 in combat, it represents the apex of US military might and technology, I wouldn't expect, nor would I myself if I were in their position, divulge a true weakness or problem. Sounds bad...but hey, this isnt a perfect world

        August 1, 2012 at 9:23 am |
    • j0eschm0e

      no, it is obamas fault, trying to cut where he shouldnt be. (lets detain the flight status for a year on this aircraft and save money) oh wait lets give illegal immigrants free college tuition. what a ja ck a s s

      August 1, 2012 at 8:53 am | Reply
      • ZRated

        Quick, something about the military....I can use it as an excuse to complain about Obama. Have you earned you gold status yet for Team Troll? Fail

        August 1, 2012 at 9:24 am |
    • airhead

      Remember, it was a $10.00 piece of equipment that scrubbed the Appolo 13 flight.

      August 1, 2012 at 8:59 am | Reply
  42. Pinkflam

    So how does this explain that the same symptoms showed up in ground crews?

    August 1, 2012 at 7:56 am | Reply
    • Lagos

      I don't know, why don't you read the article?

      August 1, 2012 at 8:13 am | Reply
    • airhead

      this time read the article

      August 1, 2012 at 8:59 am | Reply
      • Chris Honry

        Doesn't say in the article- obviously you hypocrite losers didn't read it either.

        August 1, 2012 at 9:15 am |
  43. trex

    ....................Maybe, THIS is the problem in CONGRESS as oxygen to their BRAINS...

    August 1, 2012 at 7:48 am | Reply
    • TallinOK

      Good one!

      August 1, 2012 at 8:40 am | Reply
    • airhead

      What brains?

      August 1, 2012 at 9:00 am | Reply
  44. Thor

    In the Navy Nuclear world, the ultimate thing to have located this in the first place is called "Post Maintenance Testing"! Of course, when one sends a bunch of boys to do a mans engineering job.... (Air Force).... that's what you get: FAILURE! Now the thing works... no thanks to the Air Force! Why did the Air Force HAVE to get pressured to figure this out? Arrogance? Sorry Air Force... you can't hold a candle to Navy. Sux to be Air Force!

    August 1, 2012 at 6:20 am | Reply
    • BloodNThunder

      Sounds like to me Thor is a little bitter for enlisting in the navy possibly? Maybe couldnt make the cut on the ASVAB to join up in the AF? We will never know. Air Superiority is the Air Force's job, the Navy's job is to float around in a bath tub all day:)

      August 1, 2012 at 6:50 am | Reply
      • pokydoke

        A Naval aviator is expected to land a fighter jet on the pitching deck of an air craft carrier at night while an Air force pilot is expected to land on a 10 thousand foot runway. Some bathtub!

        August 1, 2012 at 7:25 am |
      • Army


        August 1, 2012 at 7:32 am |
      • Squidmeister

        funny how we have better pilots....

        August 1, 2012 at 8:14 am |

      You are all haters of Mother Earth and the great bounty she has given us. Your brainwashed idiots do not hing but steal from her and murder her children. SHAME ON YOU

      August 1, 2012 at 7:38 am | Reply
      • Al

        If it wasn't for those types of people, you wouldn't have a purpose in life. If you look at land around a lot of military bases, or military range, you'll see all kinds of wildlife. Protection of animals on bases and ranges is far more strict (even though we drop bombs on ranges and stuff). We have people from the EPA ensure we follow all kinds of rules. Compare this to any place else other than a dedicated wildlife refuge and you'll find that wildlife is actually protected (indirectly) thanks to the military.

        August 1, 2012 at 7:45 am |
      • Al

        Those types of people being people - people that don't care about mother earth - aren't exclusive to the military. And there are plenty of people in the military that do care, and love hugs.

        August 1, 2012 at 7:48 am |
      • Jim908

        You PETA people are nothing but brainwashed extremists who refuse to admit to the atrocities YOU commit against animals.

        You guys are feeble minded idiots who think you are "serving a cause" but are nothing more than pawns and I think all you cult followers are pathetic. If you want to help animals, go rescue a dog and shut your mouth.

        August 27, 2012 at 9:26 am |
    • airhead

      Anchors aweight!

      August 1, 2012 at 9:00 am | Reply
    • Dragun

      That funny....especially since i was in the Navy and we had to go show the Air Force how to properly maintain and perform maintenance on their land based F 18's. Lets face facts here, when it comes to specialist the Air Force has them in spades, but as for anything remotely physical...lmao there was a reason they called standing up pushing your arms through the air "Air Force Push ups".

      August 1, 2012 at 9:05 am | Reply
    • zrxgrim

      Popeye was a Coastie!

      August 1, 2012 at 9:38 am | Reply
  45. Bob Ramos

    So the problem with the F-22 a plane that costs billions has been solved? Can anyone offer a logical explanation the mentality that we have to constantly upgrade our weapons systems when the ones we now have are far superior to any other in the world? On the drawing boards somewhere and right now, some large firm and the USAF are developing a fighter plane that will exceed the F-22's capabilities. Nice but even though we do not need it, we are spending billions on this newer version.

    August 1, 2012 at 4:50 am | Reply
    • Dave

      Because if we didn't spend the money on new toys, we would have to spend it on other things, like the poor and education. Duh.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:04 am | Reply
    • Cynical Vet

      I'm a raggedy ole Navy aviation veteran from the 'Nam era and ALL of our aircaft are designed looking ahead and taking decades. The F-14 started design in the early '60's and it was only with the stealth technology that made the F-22 and F-35 actual realities instead of an aeronautical engineer's dream. It's the price you pay for staying ahead. As we learned during the Cold War, playing Catch Up is a very scary proposition.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:33 am | Reply
      • Ray

        Well said on the need to stay ahead. Using the logic of some idiots here we would be "sending kids to die" in 79's era aircraft . It always amazes me to hear this endless, ill informed, carping about the need for development of leading edge military technology. Those same people would be screaming long and loud without that same leading edge technology at the ready to defend their right to carp about the technology.

        To all the wise men who KEEP saying that thte F15 has been phased out WRONG WRONG WRONG. I read this yesterday and I see it here again. Ifyou are gonna put information out put out CORRECT information. THe F15-C & E models continue in service and will continue. The F-22 was suppposed to be built in numbers around 750 to replace the F15-C but that is not gonna happen now that F-22 production has been stopped @ 175 ships.

        As a former engineer in the employ of the company that built the engines for the F14 / F15 /F16 and now the F-22 and F-35 I wish the same people who enjoy the security provided by our military would just shut up and let the military do their job w/o all the incorrect information and back seat driving these civilian experts spew out about things they don't understand!

        August 1, 2012 at 8:09 am |
    • Marc

      Part of deterance is to have the best possible military. This will keep rouge nations quiet. Unfortunately there is no way to silence the religous fanatics intent on spreading hate and degradation other than to use the most advanced weapons (human and mecahanical). WWIII between the USSR and the USA never materialized due to the fear, perceived and real, on both sides of superior weaponry.

      August 1, 2012 at 5:56 am | Reply
      • LakeRat1

        "Unfortunately there is no way to silence the religous fanatics intent on spreading hate and degradation."
        Yeah, the Republicans are difficult to deal with, aren't they!

        August 1, 2012 at 6:24 am |
      • mcp123

        Deterrence...thats a good word. However we already have more fighters than any other country in the world with pilots that have state of the art training.

        The F-22 is nothing more than an expensive toy..... a showpiece for the Air Force so they can have something cool looking in their commercials.

        The F-16 F-18 and other fighters are still some of the most advanced in the world... they have been upgraded continuously since they were first built.

        Deterrence... we have enough nuclear weapons gliding silently under the oceans to end life as we know it on this planet. Do you think thats enough deterrence?

        August 1, 2012 at 7:14 am |
      • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

        @ mcp123
        The F-16 F-18 and other fighters are still some of the most advanced in the world... they have been upgraded continuously since they were first built.

        LOL you are a complete idiot.

        August 1, 2012 at 8:12 am |
    • Kris in AL

      The F15/F16 are no longer the unchallenged king of the air.

      If the military stopped advancing designs and capabilities, they'd still be flying the Wright Flyer.

      The F22 maintains the US dominance of the air. Important if you have to use military power.

      Someday, the F22 will go the way of the Wright Flyer.

      August 1, 2012 at 6:09 am | Reply
    • Thor

      Ramos... we are playing keep up with the "jones'" right now. The (no longer called Soviets) Russians are building and supplying the creatures of war and death and evil even as we speak. Perhaps you can join the military, get into something like submarines, and you will see first hand how the formerly-known-as-soviets are conducting their "peacetime" "post cold war" operations! It is a scarey world out their.

      August 1, 2012 at 6:23 am | Reply
      • igottagetalife

        Thor it isn't's China that will have us for dinner if they could. Oh and the battle will be decided before the first is fired by computer hackers.

        August 1, 2012 at 6:46 am |
    • dk76

      because our military and the politicians are in bed with the defense contractors.... our country has become a military industrial complex since the cold war... we the tax payers write a blank check in the name of defense... when at the same time we always had enough weapons to invade every country... the rich get richer.. it's like a pyramid scam.

      August 1, 2012 at 6:30 am | Reply
    • Ron

      Becuase the old stuff eventually wears out. Why do you buy a new car evey 10 or so years? And oh, by the way, your premise that our old stuff is still top dog is wrong. Sorry.

      August 1, 2012 at 7:32 am | Reply
    • Ingsoc-84

      Because American (not U.S. government) Companies is the biggest exporters to arms so constantly coming up with newer gadgets to sell the rest of the world. This is why the entire world needs to become a group of "democratic (pro U.S.) nations"

      Indirectly however, we elect government officials that steals our tax money, that goes out as a contracts to military hardware companies and comes back to them as so called capital gain. How nice isn't it?

      August 1, 2012 at 8:00 am | Reply
    • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

      @ Bob Ramos
      > the ones we now have are far superior to any other in the world?<

      You really should read up on the subject before commenting. We sell our surplus military equipment around the world. That means their are LOTS of countries out there with F-15s and F-16s. Drones are not yet to the point of air-to-air combat fighter jet. Both Russia and China have respectable even comparable aircraft. The only thing that gives us the ‘far superior’ aspect are planes like the F-22 genius.

      August 1, 2012 at 8:12 am | Reply
    • Hasher Iva

      Because all of those pennies spent developing a new system get turned around and spent in myriad local communities on groceries, gas, schools, housing, etc. In the real economic model all the salaries paid to the defense workers are spent in their local community.

      August 1, 2012 at 8:31 am | Reply
    • TallinOK

      The Air Force is stupid not to incorporate the FA-18 Hornet and Super Hornets in their inventory. The F-22 and F-35 are not operational, yet we have fully paid for them.

      Time for Simpson-Boles to be implemented; make the DOD more fiscally responsible.

      There is no reason for the services to buy separate weapons systems to basically perform the same mission.

      August 1, 2012 at 8:51 am | Reply
    • airhead

      Because, todays tech is tomorrows ho-hum.

      August 1, 2012 at 9:01 am | Reply
  46. saeed

    this must be a joke u think that other countries cant build that piece of crap china and russia build there own space stations and spacecraft they even build there own global navigation sytems a stealth plane like f-22 they can build in half a day.

    August 1, 2012 at 4:08 am | Reply
    • Thor


      August 1, 2012 at 6:23 am | Reply
    • adam l

      There's that dirty kuffar Saeed again, Russia and China, though the are a threat are not superior. Thats what happens when you isolate your country. NATO works together, it's all over our money and technologies. More money and contributions make a better military.

      August 1, 2012 at 8:19 am | Reply
  47. Roman

    All the people who say that some day drones will replace a fighter jet are fools, imho of course. Fighters carry a very, very powerful radars that will detect and destroy any drone long before. Drones are only useful on unprotected targets, like defenceless people.

    August 1, 2012 at 2:53 am | Reply
    • Schmedley

      Like defenseless suicide bombers and terrorists with automatic rifles? You have no clue what you're talking about.

      August 1, 2012 at 3:02 am | Reply
      • Roman

        What do you have to say about radar issue?

        August 1, 2012 at 3:14 am |
      • Roman

        Xenophobic mindset, where did you get it? Movies?

        August 1, 2012 at 3:22 am |
      • Joe dirt

        Roman is Chinese. Go fail at humanity more.

        August 1, 2012 at 3:53 am |
      • adam l

        so Roman, you're saying that a remote piloted f22 is not possible? would that not be the perfect fighter? imagine having the ultrasonic radar transmitted back to the controller and the plane can fly as fast and maneveur to the best of it's ability without straining a pilot.

        August 1, 2012 at 8:23 am |
    • Vooj

      Who says that the cannot put the same radars on the drones, resulting in a smaller, more agile attack aircraft with a significantly smaller radar cross section without the use of more expensive radar absorbant materials? You points are not valid and the only thing a piloted aircraft can do better than a drone is allowing the operator to have a much high level of situation awareness. The force of the future will use a few manned planes and a lot drones.

      August 1, 2012 at 3:19 am | Reply
    • Joe dirt

      Don't cry China boy.

      August 1, 2012 at 3:39 am | Reply
    • SixDegrees

      Drones routinely carry high-powered radar and other sensors. It is one of their primary functions.

      August 1, 2012 at 3:42 am | Reply
      • Al

        Most of our drones don't have a radar,much less one like the F-22 or any other fighter for that matter use, they have FLIR as a primary sensor and GPS for navigation. So he's right.

        August 1, 2012 at 7:29 am |
      • Tom, Tom, the Piper's Son

        Actually the GlobalHawk does... so yea...

        August 1, 2012 at 8:19 am |
      • SixDegrees

        Actually, lots of our drones DO have radar systems on board; many of them are highly configurable, in fact, with swappable sensor packages that can be put in place quickly depending on mission needs. And yes, they are just as capable as those found in the F22. So he's wrong. And, basically, lying.

        August 1, 2012 at 9:38 am |
    • SixDegrees

      Also, for the cost of a single fighter, literally hundreds of drones can be deployed. Have fun dealing with that.

      August 1, 2012 at 3:48 am | Reply
      • Al

        If you want to have a drone with the capabilities of a modern fighter, I'd be willing to bet the cost will be about the same. Cost of contractors, maintainers and parts would be about the same. If there are drone pilots or some sort of crew at a ground control station, that would cost the same as pilots. And if our contractors try and squeeze every bit of money out of us, I think they could make it more expensive.

        August 1, 2012 at 7:23 am |
      • SixDegrees

        You're missing the point. Cheap = lots = prevail through sheer numbers.

        August 1, 2012 at 9:40 am |
    • Thor

      Roman is dumb.

      August 1, 2012 at 6:24 am | Reply
    • airhead

      Defenceless brown people.

      August 1, 2012 at 9:02 am | Reply
  48. Roman

    "It turns far harder then any other fighter due to it's thrust vectoring engine nozzles"

    Well that's just a lie isn't it?

    August 1, 2012 at 2:20 am | Reply
    • Navy

      Roman have your mother tuck you in and go to bed already

      August 1, 2012 at 3:57 am | Reply
    • Al

      That's not a lie. It dominates other fighters both BVR and WVR. Things have to be perfect or you have to get really lucky to win against an F-22 in either case. That's not a lie, that's from an F-18 pilot's mouth that I know.

      August 1, 2012 at 7:18 am | Reply
  49. Brian Smith

    Excellent – this report cites with 100% conclusiveness that the problem has been found and will be corrected. I feel assured that some day our pilots will be able to fly the world's most advanced combat aircraft above 10,000 feet again! While the Mig and enemy planes that cost 1/1000 what this one does can do every day until then....

    August 1, 2012 at 2:19 am | Reply
    • MilMan

      the Mig costs so little because traitors like Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen sold information to the Russians. It's easy to keep costs low when you don't have to do any R&D work.

      August 1, 2012 at 8:24 am | Reply
  50. Plane Nut

    "You're completely wrong. All F-15's excluding the two seat "Strike Eagle" variant have been phased out of the Air Force."

    What about the Air National Guard? They still fly C Models,If you are thinking about phased out models. then you are thinking of A & B Models, those were phased out & The C models replaced them, & as far as I know the B models are used for training still. AD & Reserve units would still use the C model.

    What I'd like to see Built are the F-15SE (Silent Eagle) google it : )

    August 1, 2012 at 1:54 am | Reply
    • Vooj

      There are still active duty C models at several locations...not sure where you guys are getting your info, but it is terribly wrong.

      August 1, 2012 at 2:55 am | Reply
  51. Scott R

    "In recent months, Air Force officials, under pressure from Congress and Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, have searched for a root cause of the problem and have thoroughly examined the system as a whole and found what they believes is the cause." WHAT THEY BELIEVES IS THE CAUSE. Brilliant editing by CNN, good to see.

    August 1, 2012 at 1:43 am | Reply
    • Jason

      You must be one miserable person.

      August 1, 2012 at 4:07 am | Reply
      • adam l

        He's a glass half empty type of guy. I wouldn't feel better about myself without them,

        August 1, 2012 at 8:29 am |
  52. AirForce777

    Well I supose the maintenance crews will be thrilled to learn of the so called fix. Wont help them, unless they wear space suits. Two planes we dont need the F22, and its baby brother, the F35. Dogs from the start to dogs tell the end.
    Get rid of both these planes and we would be saving some serious change for the spending cuts ahead.

    August 1, 2012 at 1:30 am | Reply
    • Tom

      But then where would the defense contractors get the money to contribute to the PACs so they can get more of our tax dollars to build stuff so they can give more of our tax dollars back to the PACs and the legislators who will oppose any spending cuts . . . and round and round she goes . . .

      August 1, 2012 at 4:31 am | Reply
  53. Steve Land

    "We poured over aircraft involved in incidents." Does that mean you drooled over them? Please, CNN, tell your writers the difference between the verbs "pore" and "pour." This is the second article in as many days that have had this mistake.

    August 1, 2012 at 1:21 am | Reply
  54. Major Tom

    Here's the real problem with the F22: it has cost us (those of us who pay taxes, that is) $68 BILLION to develop (so far), each one costs another $160 million on top of that, and in reality it is not needed. It's a new toy that the USAF just had to have.

    August 1, 2012 at 1:13 am | Reply
  55. zzBottom

    damn, more state sponsored murders are being planned.

    August 1, 2012 at 12:58 am | Reply
    • John Thomas I wonder how the f-23 Pilots are taking this news "scoop"? Thet are the people who have to get back in the f-23 aircraft and fly up...up...and away ( maybe forever ), even though they know the current vests are not capable of achieving/sustaining the known/needed anti-hypoxia elements during high "G"' flight operations. If they refuse to perform the maneuvers, they could lose their fighter jet qualifications/credentials wings and face re-assignments, like flying c-17's filled with rubber DOG-POO out of china ( or worse ). Perhaps c-130's or...?

      The new and redesigned vests should be made, tested and approved by say...oh, I dunnow...the next war.


      August 1, 2012 at 1:32 am | Reply
  56. ShowMedaMoney

    Yipee, soon we can bomb Iran.

    August 1, 2012 at 12:42 am | Reply
  57. xedder

    aaron, i googled my old air force base today (just to see if it stills looks the same as it did when i discharged back in 1978_that's not a typo). they are not flying the old f4 e phantom that i worked on from 1974-1978. they showed pictures of the f 15 eagle. it was a brand new bird when i served, so i never got a chance to work on it. but yes, the eagle is still flying!!!

    August 1, 2012 at 12:32 am | Reply
  58. Newport Pagnell

    What the hey is a "publicar"????? Is that like a VW???

    August 1, 2012 at 12:31 am | Reply
    • TheBob

      It's Spanish for "post" or "publish". CNN thinks you're Mexican. Maybe you are.

      August 1, 2012 at 1:16 am | Reply
      • Roman

        Both of you are too funny.

        August 1, 2012 at 3:07 am |
  59. George Patton

    This news is what's scares me most of all. Now we can kill (or should I say butcher?) more people than we could before, Hip, Hip, Hooray or should I say SIEG HEIL???

    August 1, 2012 at 12:25 am | Reply
    • ShowMedaMoney

      Ach Tung!

      August 1, 2012 at 12:38 am | Reply
    • Oz

      Quick, get back to your village; they're an ID10T short!

      August 1, 2012 at 12:44 am | Reply
  60. r1zr1z

    "We poured over aircraft" What did they pour over the aircraft??

    Perhaps they should PORE over the aircraft.

    pore 1 (pôr, pr)
    intr.v. pored, por·ing, pores
    1. To read or study carefully and attentively: pored over the classified ads in search of a new job.
    2. To gaze intently; stare.
    3. To meditate deeply; ponder: pored on the matter.

    August 1, 2012 at 12:19 am | Reply
    • ShowMedaMoney

      Hey, he's only a two star.

      August 1, 2012 at 12:40 am | Reply
      • Ed T Duck

        Surely it's the journalist, not the general that is at fault.

        August 1, 2012 at 1:04 am |
      • Vooj

        I am sure he spelled every word in each sentence he spoke...clearly the general's fault and not that of the reporter.

        August 1, 2012 at 3:03 am |
    • Ca Ed

      Maybe the article was correct and, in fact, they poured something like Holy Water over the nose int the belief that Divine Intervention would cure the problem.

      August 1, 2012 at 2:00 am | Reply
  61. Everett Wallace

    ground every military air craft because unholy people are flying that's from helicopters to jets cause there are no fighters in them.

    August 1, 2012 at 12:09 am | Reply
    • Travis

      Good posting, Everett. These bozoes in those planes may not be fighters but they sure as there's a God in Heaven war criminals and heartless murderers who need to be indicted and tried as the very criminals that they are!

      August 1, 2012 at 12:21 am | Reply
      • Flyboy

        I see the trolls are thick today. Does it pay much.

        August 1, 2012 at 12:35 am |
  62. Everett Wallace

    the problem is not the plane it is the pilots, they do not know GOD and GOD no longer knows them.

    August 1, 2012 at 12:01 am | Reply
    • Mopery

      Perhaps some thorazine will end your delusions.

      August 1, 2012 at 12:05 am | Reply
    • Charles

      Everett, the surest sign of intellegent life in the universe, is the fact that they have not visited Earth. The surest sign that there is a god, is the fact that he/she left this planet a long time ago.

      August 1, 2012 at 12:37 am | Reply
      • ShowMedaMoney

        Check with Romney, they're all on Planet Kolob.

        August 1, 2012 at 12:41 am |
      • adam l

        Okay, I'm a Christian (not a right wing nut christian) But that stuff you're saying, especially on a thread is just asking for the troll squashers to come down on you. I get you want to vocalize, but humble yourself good sir, worry about your own sins, so we can best talk of this sweet people killer fighter jet without conviction!

        August 1, 2012 at 8:36 am |
    • Oz

      Ev, so how're things there at Westboro Baptist these days? You still picketing the funerals?

      August 1, 2012 at 12:46 am | Reply
    • Bill in Florida

      How can the pilots know something that doesn't exist?

      August 1, 2012 at 1:42 am | Reply
  63. tez07

    they were all getting high from fumes coming from the glue holding the composites together

    July 31, 2012 at 11:46 pm | Reply
  64. Sunshine100

    Hunger & Thirst = dizzyness but has nothing to do with why the ground crew experienced these symptoms with this specific airplane. That's a huge, dismissive comment which is so typical of the Air Force. Gotta love the individuals who serve our country, but on the whole the Air Force is isolated from the general public by its Public Affairs departments. Deny. Deny. Deny. Has been since Vietnam and continues today.

    July 31, 2012 at 11:42 pm | Reply
    • Michael

      It is dismissive because it is worthy of being dismissed. Aircraft maintainers work their hands to the bone (figuratively of course) and in all likely hood it has nothing to do with this airframe. I'm sure they merely found the incidents because of the investigation, and if they thoroughly checked maintainers for every other airframe they would find a higher incident rate for more difficult aircraft to work with. Ever fix up a B-52? Didn't think so.

      July 31, 2012 at 11:59 pm | Reply
      • Brian Smith

        Exactly! those ground crews experience those symptoms every month, and have been experiencing those symptoms every fourth plane they work on – just it was confidential information on a need to know basis since the 1920s, so we're coming clean on it now....

        August 1, 2012 at 2:24 am |
  65. WatchOut

    Led Zeppelin

    July 31, 2012 at 11:37 pm | Reply
  66. rocinante

    They have a chemical warfare filter in the air passage, and no one thought to check if that was the cause until now??

    That's hard to believe. That filter should have been an obvious suspect to anyone with even a cursory knowledge of the system design.

    July 31, 2012 at 11:15 pm | Reply
    • Scratchee

      The article states that they did test the filter, and it worked fine.

      August 1, 2012 at 12:19 am | Reply
      • Brian Smith

        The filter works perfectly by itself – see, the filter closed, and NO air gets through, and when the filter is open, NO air gets through – it couldn't possibly cause hy-pox-ia since pox was eradicated centuries ago. 🙂

        August 1, 2012 at 2:26 am |
    • rocinante

      ... You read a different article? The article says the filters and other components will be redesigned. Such filters often greatly reduce and obstruct airflow and also have extremely limited lifetime before becoming clogged. This failure should have been absolute obvious to anyone familiar with the system. This gives me great pause about the skills and abilities of the people both designing and maintaining the hardware.

      August 1, 2012 at 12:49 am | Reply
      • justin

        says they were checked separately.. in conjunction with other components caused the problem

        August 1, 2012 at 2:23 am |
      • adam l

        I dont know why they didnt just hook up a OBDII reader, get the codes then called up General motors too... oh, wrong faulty vehicle.

        August 1, 2012 at 8:40 am |
  67. Noah Fence

    Correlation does not equal causation. If the ground crews were experiencing hypoxia caused by the F-22, it's wrong to assume the hypoxia experienced by the pilots has the same cause. Maybe the ground crews were being affected by toxic fumes and the pilots were being affected by defective flight suits. However, in my opinion, none of the explanations offered by theorists or the government itself satisfactorily explain this mystery.

    July 31, 2012 at 11:11 pm | Reply
  68. gargle

    good thing they will never run out of funds to fix their mistakes. Yay for indiscriminate spending on news ways to kill people!

    July 31, 2012 at 11:10 pm | Reply
  69. BDiddy

    fred37ify might have the answer here. If the performace of the plane puts it in the category of something like the SR-71, maybe the pilots should wear the same suit as the SR-71 pilots to handle the stress. The SR-71 pilots wore full astronaut gear.

    July 31, 2012 at 11:02 pm | Reply
  70. Andrew

    So this is a multi-billion dollar aircraft, and they only tested the compatibility of the life supports in their entirety only once?!

    July 31, 2012 at 10:57 pm | Reply
    • dt

      Um, in their defense, they have been busy lobbying for more money to spend.

      July 31, 2012 at 11:22 pm | Reply
    • Scratchee

      All of our defense contractors are incompetent at design and testing. That's why the U.S. has been trailing in combat aircraft technology for decades.

      August 1, 2012 at 12:21 am | Reply
  71. rotorhead1871

    The Air Force had checked each of those parts of the system independently and they all worked as expected. But only once had the service checked the entire system together.
    JUST PATHETIC.......

    July 31, 2012 at 10:51 pm | Reply
  72. Bob B

    It still sounds like they don't know what's wrong.

    July 31, 2012 at 10:44 pm | Reply
    • Brian Smith

      no, no Bob... They know exactly what's wrong, and it will be handled... (muffled – the authorities are watching you now – better change your tune or else... ) All they need is to throw more money at the problem and it'll eventually go away to the Camans....

      August 1, 2012 at 2:31 am | Reply

    The answer has been obvious. They are using alien technology in the planes and some type of plasma is leaking into the oxygen system.......

    And why does the freaking post button on here say Publicar? HUH???

    July 31, 2012 at 10:40 pm | Reply
  74. Russ

    I don't like his answer about the ground crews. There has to be something besides diet or external exhaust.

    July 31, 2012 at 10:33 pm | Reply
    • dt


      July 31, 2012 at 11:23 pm | Reply
  75. Jim

    In layman's terms, it was the new plane smell.

    July 31, 2012 at 10:21 pm | Reply
  76. 02

    F-22 was replacement for Tomcat F-14 as it retired in the past. F-14 Tomcat is our longer and the best in the Air Force service, maybe we should have them back. They can run with one engines when it fail. they got two engines in that airplane! F-22 sucks!

    July 31, 2012 at 10:14 pm | Reply
    • dreamer96

      And the F-22 will be replaced with remotely pilloted drones..or computer programmed attack drones, or perimeter defense drones, ground the F-22 pilots, and replace the pilot, with a smart phone...

      July 31, 2012 at 10:21 pm | Reply
      • bob barker

        ...they have an app for that.

        August 1, 2012 at 12:06 am |
    • Richard C

      The F-14 Tomcat was the Navy's long range fighter, was never an Air Force plane.

      July 31, 2012 at 10:38 pm | Reply
    • dreamer96

      O2 Richard C is correct the F/A-18 E/F Super Honet replaced the F-14 Tomcat... and I should know I was an Avionics Analyst for the first OFP loads...

      July 31, 2012 at 10:46 pm | Reply
      • Aeroman

        Anyone with access to the internet should know.....

        July 31, 2012 at 11:24 pm |
    • enthusiast

      Last time I checked F-22 has two engines. =p

      July 31, 2012 at 10:52 pm | Reply
    • rotorhead1871

      no no replaced the F15-–an undefeated fighter for over 30 years.....the USAF has the F15...the USN had the F14....please get your head screwed on sailor......

      July 31, 2012 at 10:53 pm | Reply
    • AOS

      The F-22 is a replacement for the F15.

      July 31, 2012 at 11:43 pm | Reply
    • dk76

      I thought the f-18 replaced the f-14

      August 1, 2012 at 6:24 am | Reply
  77. George Moresby

    I built these things, okay? Most layman simply have NO idea about the capabilities of this aircraft. Frankly, it is easily capable of exceeding the physical limitations of human pilots. What you don't hear much about is the dozens of pilots who love this aircraft and have had ZERO issues with the hypoxia-like symptoms experienced by some. These same conditions have been experienced by fighter pilots since WWI...some guys simply have a higher tolerance to the forces and physical demands of flying a fighter than others. I agree this 'fix' is pretty convenient, but it is easier than simply admitting some of the pilots are not cut out to fly the plane. Most all of these guys have already taken to flying other aircraft, no foul. Hell, none of us would last TWO SECONDS in the seat of one of these!

    July 31, 2012 at 10:10 pm | Reply
    • RKT210

      Building F-22's doesn't mean you know the first thing about flying one. I flew F-14's. There are many, many fighters capable of exceeding the physical limitations of the crew. There is nothing special about the F-22 that puts it in any higher risk category than many other fighters. Hypoxia and G-LOC (G-induced Loss Of Consciousness) are two separate issues and pilots are trained to know the difference. Most of the current F-22 pilots transitioned from other fighters with similar maneuvering capabilities, so your point about not being cut out to fly the plane is incorrect.

      August 1, 2012 at 2:05 am | Reply
  78. Jaimie

    Hopefully the problems will have stopped.

    July 31, 2012 at 9:40 pm | Reply
  79. lou50

    one thing about it time will tell if they actually found the problem. if not you may wish you slept in the basement!

    July 31, 2012 at 9:40 pm | Reply
  80. Bee

    It's "pored" not "poured" when you are talking about examining something in detail. Where was the editor? Poring has nothing to do with pouring: While Lady Jane poured the tea, her guest pored over the family tree that traced her ancestry back to William the Conqueror.

    July 31, 2012 at 9:37 pm | Reply
    • cpc65

      He was suffering from hypoxia-like symptoms.

      July 31, 2012 at 10:03 pm | Reply
    • MikeyZ

      Yes, that, and "In recent months, Air Force officials...have searched for a root cause of the problem...and found what they believes is the cause." This might have been avoided if the sentence were broken up into two or more smaller sentences.

      Sorry for playing "Grammar Police", but given the poor quality of copy editing on CNN and other websites, someone needs to call them out on their shoddy work.

      July 31, 2012 at 10:04 pm | Reply
      • Jim D.

        It's not as if they will listen. CNN employs third graders to write their stories now...

        July 31, 2012 at 11:08 pm |

    An explosive Congressional investigation revealed horrific new details this week about a U.S. funded military hospital in Afghanistan that kept patients in "Auschwitz-like" conditions.

    The investigation also revealed that Lt. General William B. Caldwell, then commander of the $11.2 billion dollar a year Afghan training program, tried to block the probe and ordered a cover-up.

    There are currently two ongoing investigations looking into the Dawood Military Hospital abuses: one centered around the Military Whistleblower Protection Act, the other concerned with Caldwell’s politically-motivated decision to delay investigations into the hospital until after the 2010 elections.

    What follows is a very disturbing look inside the Dawood National Military Hospital. It was compiled with sworn eye-witness testimony from the three U.S. Army colonels who blew the whistle on the scandal, as well as never-before published photos obtained by BuzzFeed.

    The photos and corresponding descriptions were collected by U.S. military personnel in Afghanistan.

    July 31, 2012 at 9:23 pm | Reply
    • J R Brown

      Not being able to follow along with everyone else and stay on topic is a mental disorder, just so you know.....

      July 31, 2012 at 11:01 pm | Reply
      • Jim D.

        Superior liberals don't have to stay on topic. Obama built that...

        July 31, 2012 at 11:10 pm |
    • dt


      July 31, 2012 at 11:27 pm | Reply
      • bob barker

        I have A.D.D. and I must tell you sometimes it gets hard to stay on topic especi oh look a kitty!

        August 1, 2012 at 12:11 am |
      • Roman

        It doesn't exist

        August 1, 2012 at 2:30 am |
    • Sunshine100

      I understand why you posted the information re investigation and coverup scandal over the Dawood Military Hospital. This news article & board IS an appropriate place for your comments because the mainstream media blogs more likely to spread the work to a very large population. I applaud your courage, too, in your post and understand your objective.

      August 1, 2012 at 12:14 am | Reply
    • no1dane

      "Auschwitz-like conditions".
      Complete with gas chambers and incinerators? Wow, that's dirty business.

      August 1, 2012 at 2:48 am | Reply
  82. Craig

    So, they found the a whole...isn't the sum of its parts. Okay, that's fine. Then, since that didn't account for the ground crew, they made up some other silly answer. In truth, I still don't believe they KNOW anything concrete, but they need to put on a good show. It is possible that several little things merge to create the problem, and, in fact, that's a likely situation. However, since this doesn't account for the ground crews experiencing the same conditions, they're saying it's two different of which we can't quantify at all.

    This is a mess, and at the risk of making it messier, to me this sounds like a certain Presidential campaign, that attempt to spin everything with the hope that you won't notice there's nothing really there in the first place.

    July 31, 2012 at 9:19 pm | Reply
    • Al

      I suspect the ground crew who claimed hypoxia like symptoms were probably suffering from dehydration as the SecDef states. A lot of servicemen love drinking about 50 gallons of monsters and redbulls a day, smoke and don't eat. I've also seen some try to get out of physical fitness by claiming all kinds of lame crap.

      July 31, 2012 at 11:07 pm | Reply
      • RKT210

        It happens to maintainers all the time, but you don't hear about it because there isn't an issue with other aircraft in the news.

        August 1, 2012 at 1:53 am |
  83. dreamer96

    The F-22 has been in several movie fights...but never seen real life combat...If the Pentagon needs to save some money they can send this turkey bird back to the manufacturer and ask for a refund...but they just paid them how much to figure our the problem...which they still have not...Park them all....What good is a fighter you can not use!!!

    July 31, 2012 at 9:18 pm | Reply
    • MawcDrums

      I don't think you understand how this works. This machine created lots of jobs and is a necessary evil so-to-speak. Other countries are developing 5th generation fighters as we speak. There aren't very many F-22's in existence, you can't exactly return to sender either. The money has already been spent.

      July 31, 2012 at 9:29 pm | Reply
      • GOD


        The $$$ has not been spent!

        There have only been partial, progress payments sent, and those are with conditions attached!

        The F-22 can and should be cancelled at any time someone in the Pentagon grows a brain...

        July 31, 2012 at 9:50 pm |
      • dreamer96

        If jobs are your concern then have those engineers design some big blimps to be used as floating air born aircraft carriers for drone fighters..the drone fighters can pull more G's then any pilot can stand...Cancel the F-22 and build drone fighters....

        July 31, 2012 at 10:16 pm |
      • Jerry

        Wrong! The F-22 program is being ended because the plane itself is ineffective in the anticipated mission environment of future wars, having no designed air-to-ground capability. All the aircraft received have been paid for in full and any future funds allotted to the F-22 program are for maintenance and upkeep.

        July 31, 2012 at 10:31 pm |
  84. Jim P

    The more events that have to happen at the same time to make your "problem" happen, the less likely it is that you have found the real root cause of your problem. This from 30+ years of problem-solving in the aerospace advanced composites industry. It's not that this could not be the problem but I would not stop looking based on the information revealed here.

    July 31, 2012 at 9:15 pm | Reply
  85. sportreform

    the 5th main component is breathing their own flatuence

    July 31, 2012 at 9:15 pm | Reply
  86. jrh

    Ridiculous. As a taxpayer this "answer" is the biggest bunch of BS I've ever heard. Such a fundamental error should never have happened in the first place. It's cost at least one life already, and now Lock-Mart is telling us that it's going to continue to happen because their precious is complex and goes fast? The F-22 should be scrapped. It's a relic of the cold war with no mission anyway.

    July 31, 2012 at 9:09 pm | Reply
  87. Heydummies

    This result seems somewhat suspect to me. The article states that the vests are decades-old technology. It follows that these vests are used in other fighter planes. Are the hoses, connections and filters newly designed?

    If they are not, why aren't these complaints happening with the F15? If they are, that should be a central point made in the published result, which I don't see in this article.

    July 31, 2012 at 9:07 pm | Reply
    • Michael

      The problem exists only when all the parts are interacting in the F-22. The F-15 doesn't have the same filter or air circulation system.

      August 1, 2012 at 12:05 am | Reply
  88. Sam

    Finally the four gremlins are identified after billions of dollars spent!! Give me a mil and I will find God in the clouds.....

    July 31, 2012 at 9:04 pm | Reply
  89. omdmp

    Why wasn't Lockheed responsible for figuring out the problems, and fixing them. Don't these multimillion dollar machines come with a warranty of some sort?

    July 31, 2012 at 8:58 pm | Reply
    • nodat1

      yes its called a modification or a /B /C /D keep in mind lockgreed has already found and fixed this problem years go but for a cool Billion they will investigate and fix the problem welcome the world of the contractor

      July 31, 2012 at 9:15 pm | Reply
    • RKT210

      The problem wasn't with the plane, it was with the G-suit. Not Lockheed's problem. If you must point fingers, point them at the Air Force Systems Command.

      August 1, 2012 at 1:49 am | Reply
  90. bam

    It is a known fact it happens on planes, but it was happening way too often in the F-22.
    sometimes the more u know the more u know.

    July 31, 2012 at 8:56 pm | Reply
  91. VCQ

    "Blaming the vest and the attachments doesn't answer why six ground maintenance crew members, who don't wear the vest, complained of hypoxia-like symptoms, including dizziness and lightheadedness."

    Exactly. Chalking that up to hunger and thirst? Ridiculous...if that's true, there would be a lot more report of "hypoxic" maintainers on other aircraft in addition to the F-22, no?

    July 31, 2012 at 8:56 pm | Reply
    • Michael

      How often are there multi-million dollar physiological investigations on other aircraft?

      August 1, 2012 at 12:04 am | Reply
  92. Jason B.

    "But Lyon warned that the problem will never be entirely solved." Really? Billions in R&D and you won't ever be able to fix an issue like this? Sounds like a BS response to me. Sounds more like being unwilling to fix it, not that they can't.

    July 31, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Reply
    • Phil

      No. They will fix this problem, but he is saying there will always be similar types of issues.

      When you maneuver at 4, 5, or higher Gs, then all the blood will rush out of your head or to your head. The vest and other systems compensate for that, but they do not totally eliminate that. The human body is conditioned to operate at 1 G, when you change that environment, there are consequences that no amount of money will solve.

      July 31, 2012 at 9:07 pm | Reply
  93. cyg

    after a billion dollars of research, I could probably tell you that, um, maybe you just made it too damn fast for a human body to take unless you are in space? But maybe not.

    July 31, 2012 at 8:50 pm | Reply
    • bam

      and u think the f22 is faster why?

      July 31, 2012 at 8:57 pm | Reply
      • fred37ify

        The F-22 is supersonic without afterburner ! But that is a non-issue ! It turns far harder then any other fighter due to it's thrust vectoring engine nozzles ! ! Speed is not a problem { see SR-71 } !

        July 31, 2012 at 9:52 pm |
  94. Dot8

    Where are these "four main components" made? In China?

    July 31, 2012 at 8:49 pm | Reply
  95. Denverboy

    They have ID the problems and said that...It's going to continue no matter what ...Sounds to me like they have not ID the problem that there putting a quick fix onto multi-Million dollar aircraft paid for by th US TAXPAYER and basicly promising this Aircraft WILL NEVER WORK AS PROMISED.....But that the Huge DEFENSE CONTRACOTS THAT BUILT THE UNUSABLE AIRCRAFT,.....get to keep there profit and America is stuck with a subpar Machine that may or may not kills it;s occupants ...Never mind that it;s a military aircraft and is supposed to...Be a HIGH PROFROMANCE KILLING MACHINE..Well the TRUTH BEHIND THAT Military Propganda is the only thing High Profomance is it's Astronomical price to the American People and the only thing it will kill..Is our Own Service memebers who are ORDWERED to fly it.........
    And Romney want to pour more money into that BLACK HOLE we call the MILITARY...Well I guess for defense contractors that mean huge PROFITS and they dont even have to make Planes that...WORK..Cost saving for them ..Death to our Service men and women.....

    July 31, 2012 at 8:17 pm | Reply
    • OffTheWorldPolitics

      Relax, It wont take long for these things to fly themselves.....

      July 31, 2012 at 8:52 pm | Reply
    • bam

      ...It is a known fact it happens on other planes, but it was happening way too often in the F-22.
      ...sometimes the more u know the more u know.
      ramble RAMBLE RAMBLE rambler robble ROBBLE

      July 31, 2012 at 8:58 pm | Reply
    • montyhp

      But Denverboy, all these incidents took place on Obama's watch. There must be a link to him.

      July 31, 2012 at 9:00 pm | Reply
      • Roman

        Impeach Obama

        August 1, 2012 at 2:16 am |
      • Chris Honry

        No, they were started under BUSH, it's HIS fault! LOL libtards die

        August 1, 2012 at 9:17 am |
    • fred37ify

      Fool ! A single F-22 out flew FOUR F-15 Eagles at Red Flag back in 2006 ! All 4 Eagles were targeted and would have been killed in a real dog fight ! And right now the F-15 is our frontline fighter ! We need the F-22 to just stay even !

      July 31, 2012 at 9:57 pm | Reply
      • Aaron

        You're completely wrong. All F-15's excluding the two seat "Strike Eagle" variant have been phased out of the Air Force.

        July 31, 2012 at 11:13 pm |
      • Michael

        Aaron, you are incorrect. The C model air superiority fighter is definitely in service.

        August 1, 2012 at 12:03 am |
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