Report: Chinese stealth fighter to be operational by 2018
May 18th, 2012
02:47 PM ET

Report: Chinese stealth fighter to be operational by 2018

By Jennifer Rizzo

The U.S. believes that China's radar-evading fighter jet will be operational in six years, a Pentagon official said Friday.

China is expected to have sufficient numbers of its J-20 fighter and enough pilots trained to conduct missions with the stealthy jet by 2018 but not any earlier, according to David Helvey, acting deputy assistant secretary of defense for East Asia and Asia Pacific affairs.

Chinese officials have said they expect the J-20 to be operational between 2017 and 2019.

Helvey spoke about the Defense Department's annual report to Congress regarding China's military developments.

Analysts believe that the J-20 will have the radar-evading capability of fifth-generation fighters produced by the United States, like the F-22 and F-35.

The report cited the J-20 as an example of China's emphasis on military modernization programs.

In March, China announced an estimated 11% jump in its military budget, to roughly $106 billion. The actual figure, which is probably much larger, is difficult to estimate due to the non-transparent nature of China's budget.

For example, Helvey said, the published military budget does not include several major categories of expenditures such as foreign weapons purchases, nuclear force modernization and research and development.

The Defense Department estimates that in 2011, China's total military-related spending ranged between $120 billion and $180 billion.

While the report says China's main focus is deterring conflict with Taiwan, the U.S. again made bold statements on the cyberthreat posed by China, accusing the nation of cyberattacks and economic espionage.

"Chinese attempts to collect U.S. technological and economic information will continue at a high level and will represent a growing and persistent threat to U.S. economic security," the report said.

Various sections of the report also mentioned the larger role China is playing around the globe with non-traditional security missions like humanitarian assistance and disaster relief operations, non-combatant evacuation operations, military medical assistance missions and U.N. peacekeeping missions.

"For the first time in its history, the (People's Liberation Army) is going places and doing things and is at the incipient stages of taking on an expeditionary mindset," said David Finkelstein, who directs the China studies program at CNA, a nonprofit research institute in Alexandria, Virginia.

Finkelstein pointed to the navy's ongoing anti-piracy operation in the Gulf of Aden as a prime example.

"While some might call into question how operationally significant the mission is, no one should question the significance of the political decision made back in 2008 to take on the mission," he said. "Given China's growing set of national security interests and its expanding international footprint, this trend should come as no surprise, and the report points this out."

The themes surrounding a growing Chinese military were similar to those mentioned in previous reports. The most striking difference this year was the length of the report, coming in at half the size of previous versions.

The Pentagon says it consolidated the document to keep with agency-wide guidance on how to handle congressional reports, but one analyst sees the move as policy-motivated.

"The Chinese have complained bitterly about this report from its inception," Chinese military expert Richard Fisher said. "It is the most useful and comprehensive statement by any government on this planet about the capabilities and intentions of China's military. That is why the Chinese government screams so loud every time it's published. But they are going to be really happy that the U.S. government cut its length in half."

Fisher says the Obama administration is using the report as a way of appeasing the Chinese.

"Early in 2009, the Obama administration made a very direct and consistent effort to make nice with China and to make nice with the PLA," Fisher said. "And very early on, it seized on the opportunity to use this report as a way of signaling to the PLA that we want to make nice."

Finkelstein disagreed.

"The format, tone and minimal use of jargon in this year's report makes it, in my view, very effective in conveying to the Congress and the general public a basic understanding of what the PLA is trying to accomplish," he said.

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Filed under: China • Military
soundoff (168 Responses)
  1. Joseph Tan

    Don"t worry, With China – US trade is amongst the largest in the world, war with America is the last thing in China mind. Of course there is a caveat. China does not tolerate interfere in territorial integrity and sovereignty of China. To China, US is the goose that laid the golden eggs. Why should China kill that goose?

    July 5, 2014 at 9:36 am | Reply
  2. yong

    Someone in China says China will whip US ass very soon.............US will be shown ticket to home very soon.....Iran is probably a secret partner in this Chinese stealth programme and they will get 999 of them,Palestine 1000 of them...while US is polishing it ever bugged 80s era f-22 costing them over $700 million a piece over all,bye bye America...oh wait what is this burning smell !

    October 28, 2012 at 10:09 am | Reply
  3. OregonTom

    Mainland China is worried about conflict with Taiwan? Seriously?

    June 16, 2012 at 11:22 am | Reply
  4. Jack

    I believe Fenkelstein is right on with his assessment.

    June 15, 2012 at 10:16 am | Reply
  5. Everett Wallace

    looks like a CROP duster to Me.

    June 8, 2012 at 10:11 am | Reply
  6. SayanIndia

    The Chinese have reportedly approached Ukrainian ‘Motor Sich’ for joint development of a 15-ton+ thrust engine, transparent enough to suggest that their own Chengdu WS-15 engine program is in dire straits.

    Without at least a 15-ton+ thrust engine the Chinese fifth-generation fighter program will remain a distant dream.

    Sayan.

    May 20, 2012 at 11:24 am | Reply
    • Cheese Wonton

      Making an aircraft fly at supersonic speeds and remain sealthy is a significant technical hurdle. Opening weapons bay doors to launch weapons at supersonic speeds is a very difficult thing to do as well (read up on something called Bomb Bay Resonance orHelmholz Resonance and how it affected aircrews and aircraft at low subsonic speeds, then scale this effect up to Mach 2 or greater). Operating radios and radars without giving your presence away is a non trivial engineering challenge. Managing the aircraft's heat signature is a huge problem to overcome unless you are willing to let your aircraft be visible in the IR spectrum to an enemies IR search and track system.
      The huge difficulties the US has had developing the F-22 and F-35 ought to tell us something. The Chinese plane, if it really does enter service in 2018 or thereabouts, will either enter service in an undeveloped state as more of a psychological weapon (look at all the internet speculation,, that is China playing brain games with the west) or it indicates the Chinese are content to settle for a less capable design, not such a big advance over the J-10 as the F-22 and F-35 are advances over the F-15 and F-16.
      Frankly, the flight controls, particularly the canards and vertical stabilizers and the jet exhausts are anything but stealthy.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:40 pm | Reply
      • Lars Olofsson

        A small country like Sweden made supersonic fighter jets already back in the 1950s (and for a short period had the world's fastest such aircraft). It makes no sense to me that a country like China with its enormous economic resources today, and giant pool of engineers, would not be able to produce good supersonic fighter jets if they wanted.

        June 10, 2012 at 9:00 am |
  7. KeninTexas

    I suspect the Chinese save quite a bit of money in development costs by stealing their technology from the US and everyone else they can.

    May 20, 2012 at 12:05 am | Reply
    • Nicole

      We also help fund their weapons development indirectly by buying so many of their consumer products.

      May 20, 2012 at 7:54 am | Reply
    • Jesse

      While Clinton gaveca lot of dual use tech to china this is from a brief partnership from Russia. The J20 does not have the Radar Cross section of the F22 and F35. However it is more maneuverable. India is also developing gen 5 fighters which will outnumber ours. China, India, and Russai have partneredin the past on various military and defense issues. If those 3 countries were to becaome a permanent alliance that could shift world power dramtically. Russian innovation is exceptional our saving grace was communism hurt production capability, India aspiring education models graduating more science majors, and chinese worker bee attitude are all threats to US dominance 50 years from now.

      May 20, 2012 at 8:54 am | Reply
      • cykill

        50 years...you dont have that long fella....

        June 13, 2012 at 2:24 pm |
    • Cheese Wonton

      The greatest source of US military tech transfer to China is from Israel. Israel buys most of the US best weapons, then builds a system that is 90% identical to a US system, but the Israelis call it theirs, and sell this to the Russians and Chinese. The Lavi program was joint effort between IAI and General Dynamics to build a 4th gen fighter in Israel based on the F-16. It was ultimately too expensive for the small additional increment in performance over an F-16 so the program was cancelled and GD built a unique to Israel version of the F-15 of which the Israelis bought some 200 examples.
      But what the Israelis learned teaming with GD they immediately turned around and taught the Chinese so China could produce the J-10 fighter. Of particular value to China was Israel's knowledge of the control laws for the four axis computerized fly by wire system, something China had no prior experience with, and something Israel had no prior experience with until General Dynamics taught them the technology.
      Likewise Israel, never happy with the quantities of Sidewinder infrared missiles they could procure from the US, produced their own version called Python 3. It uses Sidewinder seeker technology and rolleron stability with an Israeli control configuration. The Israelis then turned around and built a factory in China to assemble these missles from kits at the Xi'an Machine Works. China has since reached a point of manufacturing complete missiles and this missile is what the J-10 and other Chinese fighters carry as a dogfight missile. The Chinese call this missle PL-8.
      Israel operates the US best fighter aircraft, the F-15 and F-16. China has no way to gain knowledge of the wave forms of their radars in order to buld effective countermeasures and radar warning receivers. But, Israel has stepped in and sold the Chinese exactly these items, based on Israel's knowledge of the radars of the US built aircraft they operate, providing China with a significant capability to detect and counter US fighters they otherwise would not have. During the J-10 program the Israelis taught the Chinese how to integrate their Python III / PL-8 missiles into a helmet mounted sight, and in the process integrated China's Russian made missiles to the same sight for off boresight shots.

      The motivation for this is obvious. Israel wants very much to influence the Chinese military not to sell their weapons to Israel's adversaries in the Middle East. Israel trades in the only thing of value they have to offer the Chinese, and that is US weapons and sensor technology. The same is true to a lesser degree with the Russians. It is telling telling that Israel is China's number two foreign arms supplier.
      The US taxpayer is being sold down the river by the Israelis, and if the US and China ever clash, US airmen will be dying at the hands of Chinese pilots using Israeli developed systems and imported US technology. The US taxpayer is utterly oblivious to this fact.

      May 20, 2012 at 2:31 pm | Reply
      • Chief Eagle

        The Chinese and the Jews have always been friends, back in ancient times when a group of Jews first settled and assimilated into China, and later on when China was the only country in the world that offered refuge to Jews escaping from nazi Germany, and did not discriminate against the Jews who settled in Shanghai. Israel and China should continue to cooperate. The Jews and the Chinese have a lot in common. They are both hardworking people, and have always been discriminated by others. May God bless the Israelis and the Chinese !

        November 20, 2012 at 8:41 am |
    • Goes both ways

      So called U.S. technology and military is funded by China.

      May 23, 2012 at 2:34 pm | Reply
  8. 299

    by 2018, the US military will be full of gay people (nothing wrong with that).

    May 19, 2012 at 8:23 pm | Reply
    • cacique

      very brave gays, you should add, who will become top guns all of them.

      May 19, 2012 at 9:24 pm | Reply
    • David

      You got brain right up your butt screwbal,l you make me sick, go back in the closet, you idiot

      May 19, 2012 at 9:29 pm | Reply
  9. 299

    so what? We got more gays in the military than the Chinese.
    We won.

    May 19, 2012 at 8:22 pm | Reply
  10. Thor the Badass Thunder God

    I severely doubt that this will have the stealth capabilities of US Fifth Generation fighters. They kept touting their Nuclear Submarines as awesome and then it turns out that they were louder than hell itself, something like "driving a giant Diesel truck underwater"

    May 19, 2012 at 11:55 am | Reply
  11. Dumbeldore3000

    That plane looks very, very similar to an F-35...

    May 19, 2012 at 11:05 am | Reply
  12. Doctor

    Well it is good news that China is developing its military power. Being a Pakistani, I am very glad to see our friend country developing not just on military bases but also economically and logistically. Well done China!

    May 19, 2012 at 10:39 am | Reply
    • Adam Dillon

      yo doc, without the USA backing Pakistain, India would crush you

      May 19, 2012 at 10:59 pm | Reply
  13. Roger Ogilvy Thornhill

    Bet it won't have unfiltered Internet access!

    May 19, 2012 at 10:37 am | Reply
  14. Daimler

    Pentagon is creating a new enemy so as to continue getting a big budget to spend. Now they cannot use osama and saddam as excuses, it will now be China bashing time to justify the high budgets. High spending = high kickbacks.

    May 19, 2012 at 10:33 am | Reply
    • David Hoffman

      China has been a problem for the USA and other members of the UN since the end of World War 2. They propped up a mentally ill brutal dictator for decades. Without Chinese support, North Korea would have had less chance of developing nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles. They would not have been so opposed to a peace treaty with South Korea. The Chinese behavior on the UN Security Council is reprehensible. The rampant unauthorized use of patented technology and copyrighted items from the USA is at outrageous levels. Chinese government authorities and citizens will tell you they do not understand the concept of a patent or copyright. They ask, " Please explain copyright and patent?", for the 1000th time. They are a menace and getting worse as they get wealthier. So, yes, we have to pay attention to what they are doing with their military technology.

      May 19, 2012 at 8:04 pm | Reply
    • Andy Wilson

      I think some people just want to learn Arabic and Chinese. At some point these people want to control our ay of life. Let me help you, Mmirhaba and Nihao

      May 19, 2012 at 9:35 pm | Reply
  15. China

    Yeah!

    Destory philpine!

    🙂

    May 19, 2012 at 10:15 am | Reply
  16. Indigo

    Where is the love????????????????????????????????

    Stop wasting your time!!

    this is nonsense.

    Seriously Americans, Chines....................All! stop wasting your time, over things like this, the world needs cooperation and not, hostile competition.

    Probably much of you right now, are having a bad day after reading all of this comments and maybe some are even commenting in the same way.
    An enemy is easy made. be a MAN and make a friend!

    May 19, 2012 at 10:06 am | Reply
    • Jesse

      With cooperation we could advance NASA's Keppler project develop anti matter engines (star trek I know, actually real). For the first time in history of man kind thefe is no place to colonize and explore. Previously in history. Frustrated people got up and left and settled new lands. No more but a second earth would alleviate a lot of the worlds stresses.

      May 20, 2012 at 8:59 am | Reply
    • Girls

      I don't think many people realize how unlikely it would be to ever have a military confrontation with China. China and America are an economic bread and butter, and American leaders realized this a long long time ago. America's complaints with China are all clear and in the forefront, whats more is they all make logical sense. Intellectual property deserves compensation for its use and ownership. It's how a market works. China will eventually have no choice but to acknowledge it. China's military growth is concerning not because it is a threat to America, but because it signals a China that at the very least feels threatened. China should realize that no neighboring nation could ever overthrow it, nor would any nation want to, as China knows how daunting the task is of governing over an enormous ethnically, culturally, and financially fragmented population. I think it's fair to worry that these military units may be used in a political crisis against their own citizens. The sad thing is, in terms of the global peace, this use would be the most benign.

      May 20, 2012 at 11:07 am | Reply
  17. Mark

    The Pentagon needs to keep trumping up perceived threats in order to explain their extortionate budget. With the USSR no longer existing, Al Qaeda proving to be a damp squid and North Korea little more than an irritating thorn, it is time to create fear in another sphere. Hello China......

    May 19, 2012 at 8:32 am | Reply
    • Dumbeldore3000

      Absolutely agree.

      May 19, 2012 at 11:05 am | Reply
  18. Rally

    The worst thing a capitalist nation can do is to fund communism, as we have have done, through employing their people. Isn't "Most Favored Nation Trading Status" wonderful? Now when will their citizens wake up and get rid of their corrupt government.

    May 19, 2012 at 8:24 am | Reply
  19. Everett Wallace

    every body buildin this stealth stuff who you tryin to sneak up on china. Already know what you going to do before you even do it

    May 19, 2012 at 7:47 am | Reply
  20. krolus

    Such scwabble! The pentagon gives everything to the chinese,were it not for our military complex we would all be shooting ak-47's.Make no mistake the us military is allowing china to build up.Why arent they developing russian tech?or there own?This is the master plan if you do not have the right seat belt on for this ride,ride at your own risk.Good luck.

    May 19, 2012 at 7:26 am | Reply
  21. Maersk licks roosters

    The sad fact of this buildup is the world is going to end up with more nuclear weapons not less. And guess who everyone will be pointing them at?

    May 19, 2012 at 6:54 am | Reply
  22. F

    Wonder where they got this idea from. Looks insanely similar to the YF-23 that competed against the F-22 for production.

    May 19, 2012 at 4:10 am | Reply
    • Maersk

      Have you also wondered why you look like an American kwok zucking kwok zucker too? Look, you have two hands to hold the kwoks with and a mouth to zuck them. You definitely is an American kwok zucking kwok zucker.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:39 am | Reply
      • Maersk licks roosters

        The funniest thing about your comment is the need for "two hands". Put your 4 or 5 incher back in your pants, wash your hands and go and make me a new toilet to crap in... idiot

        May 19, 2012 at 7:13 am |
  23. Thieves

    Most of what Chinese has acomplished is because of their theft abilities when it comes to stealing secrets from the private industries and American government via the internet.

    May 19, 2012 at 3:40 am | Reply
    • Jannai

      Sort of like the US, stealing natural resources all over the world, and killing hundreds of thousands of innocents, overthrowing governments that don't align with them, monopolizing the UN and its Security Council......

      May 19, 2012 at 3:51 am | Reply
      • asdf

        Yup, just like every other country jealous b!tch.

        May 19, 2012 at 6:56 am |
      • Maersk licks roosters

        Believe it or not but the world is a far safer place because of the americans. And I'm not american.

        Before you stick up for china maybe you should check out how they are the ones stealing African resources -from the poorest and most vulnerable continent on earth.

        The Chinese government is corrupt, self serving and ruthless. It doesn't care about the Chinese let alone anyone else. No way I'd listen to their dictations!

        May 19, 2012 at 7:30 am |
      • Dillon

        Move to Africa or Iran or Iraq then

        May 19, 2012 at 11:02 pm |
    • Maersk

      Does that include hacking into your azz and stealing of your virginity? If it does, will you still be able to sell yourself as virginn to your uncle?

      May 19, 2012 at 4:11 am | Reply
      • Kelvin

        it is no longer being sold ..hello donset everyone realize that there are fans all over the world that want the CD just as bad as the aisan countries????plz tell me where i can find it.

        November 11, 2012 at 12:18 pm |
  24. tactstl

    1. Who cares about stealth fighters these days, wars are waged by currency and trade, not stealth fighters, that era ended in the 2000s.

    2. David Finkelstein is a hilariously Jew'ey name, reminiscent of a Jerky Boys character "Sol Rosenberg", 'Oooooh, my glasses, I am going to sue you, ooooooooh".

    3. Down with AIPAC, and Jewish influences on AMERICAN legislation and policy.

    That is all.

    May 19, 2012 at 3:05 am | Reply
    • Voig Nederlander

      Why don't you take your racist drivel and go croon it at similarly neanderthal-minded cretins in white sheets, you vile heap of steaming offal?

      May 19, 2012 at 4:05 am | Reply
      • wasso

        Why don't you stuff it with Halwah !

        May 19, 2012 at 6:31 am |
  25. Cheese Wonton

    No one here seems to be aware of how much of our best military technology is transferred to China by the Israelis. Without Israeli engineers working with their Chinese counterparts, the Chinese would not have the information on the waveforms of US radars to be able to make effective jammers. Without Israeli help, the Chinese would not have guided missles with seekers slaved to their pilots helmet mounted sighting systems. Without the Israelis, the Chinese would not have been able to write the control laws for the four axis fly by wire system in the J-10, and without General Dynamics teaming with the Israelis on the Lavi, the Israelis would not have been able to write those control laws for the Chinese.
    China builds licensed copies of Israeli air to air missles, based on the US made Sidewinders they were given by the US taxpayer. Israel is the largest source of leakage of US military technology to the Chinese and Russians, but the American public is utterly blind to this fact. How will the American public feel when their pilots and aircrew are dying at the hands of Chinese pilots using Israeli made systems and firing Israeli made missiles? One wonders.

    May 19, 2012 at 2:58 am | Reply
    • Jannai

      Jews are evil people. And you cannot say that.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:51 am | Reply
    • Voig Nederlander

      What is your evidence for this? What possible motivation would you have for spreading such lies other than a deep-seated anti-semitism?

      May 19, 2012 at 4:07 am | Reply
      • Cheese Wonton

        The Israelis openly admit setting up a factory in Xi'an at the Xi'an Eastern Machine Factory. The program was called "Number 8 Project" and involved the assembly of Israeli Python III missiles from kits supplied by the Israelis. The Chinese call this misslle PL-8. Over time the Chinese began to build more of the parts on their own and now build the complete missile in China.
        Likewise the follow on infrafed missile, called PL-9 in Chinese service, which uses the Sidewinder airframe right down to the rollerons, with a more advanced seeker derived from the later Israeli Python series missiles.
        After considerable browbeating, the Israel Defense Ministry was forced to admit helping the Chinese with the J-10, having set up a program office in Beijing staffed by IMI engineers and program managers.
        In mid June 2011 Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak made the following comments in a speech given to his Chinese counterparts at the Israeli Embassy in Beijing:
        "We are ready to share our knowledge with your gifted scientists, engineers and businessmen to find ways to make business. Israel is too small, and it never has enough market for our technology," he said. "We came here to consolidate our partnership with the Chinese PLA but also to expose to the Chinese people our openness to join hands and make the world, including China and Israel, a little bit better to live in."

        Nice allies the US has.

        May 19, 2012 at 5:03 pm |
    • Maersk

      The only kind of transfer I know is that the Israelis transfer their bodily fluid to your kwok zucking mouth.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:41 am | Reply
    • john

      If you think the US shares the majority of it's military technologies with Isreal or anyone else think again. While there are sharing in some areas there are areas which are comprehensively off limits to all other countries. The US retains weapons technologies the world has not heard about and hopefully never will have the reason to.

      May 19, 2012 at 5:38 am | Reply
      • Cheese Wonton

        My friend, they have F-15's, F-16 and a variety of other US systems. No, they don't always have the black programs, but they have the best systems the US acknowledges and these are the backbone of US fighting forces. I guarentee you the minute the Israelis get their F-35s there will be Chinese in Israel examining them.
        Giving the Chinese access to even old and well known fighters like the F-15 gives the Chines an advantage they would not have otherwise, and allows them to develop countermeasures to them, making the bulk of Americas fighting forces more vulnerable to Chinese forces. Where once Chinese forces might have been a slam dunk like the Iraqis, the Israelis have helped the Chinese close the gap.
        The motivation for this ought to be painfully obvious. They are buying influence with the Chinese military with the only currency they have, US weapons technology. The reason is to give the Chinese a reason not to sell their best missiles and aircraft to Israels enemies in the Middle East. It would be poetic justice if the Israelis had to face Iranian manned J-10's in a raid on Iran, but that is not likely to happen as long as Israel has US weapons technology to trade.
        The Chinese don't need to know about the black programs. They are desparately trying to master mature western military technologies without having to spend the time and money on original RDT&E.

        May 19, 2012 at 5:12 pm |
  26. NB

    It depends on how quickly they're able to steal the technology from other countries. The Chinese don't seem to be capable of building anything on their own.

    May 19, 2012 at 2:49 am | Reply
    • Maersk

      And you do? You can't even make yourself a dudo that you stuff your azz with. Without the Chinese made dudo, you will still be using your own fingers.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:46 am | Reply
  27. Oh look!

    Now that the US has shut down production of stealth fighters someone has to pick up the slack...

    May 19, 2012 at 2:33 am | Reply
  28. hailruben

    Who cares what the chinese have!
    We got
    1. Barak Obama
    2. Union jobs.
    3. Hispanics
    4. Same sex marriage
    5. Medical Marajuana.
    6. Facebook.
    So kiss our butts china !

    May 19, 2012 at 2:26 am | Reply
  29. acajunthatsagun

    So what are the plans for the next 6 years? Maybe we should keep talking about abortion, banning gays, etc.

    May 19, 2012 at 2:23 am | Reply
  30. Africa

    US keep making all your electronics , clothes from china.
    Who knows what device made in china is in your war planes. They can be activated remotely against you.

    May 19, 2012 at 2:11 am | Reply
    • OBAMADAD

      GO ASK OBAMA AND PENNETTA?

      May 19, 2012 at 3:06 am | Reply
    • Dillon

      Da Africa where you live in a mud hut

      May 19, 2012 at 11:04 pm | Reply
  31. eSafer

    We (i.e., us Americans) failed to pick up all the debris from that F-117 back in 1999...farmers (and I guess others) in or near the impact vicinity unfortunately wound up with the cleaning credit – all the U.S. military by itself or in cooperation with the allied coalition, etc., had to do then as one good way to get this wrecked material back in our hands was to give stipends or rewards to those who went thru the trouble and time to haul or pocket those bits and pieces that somehow worked their way to the physical emergence of the J-20 and perhaps the Russian T-50?

    Like that F-15 Strike Eagle that crashed in Libya, same results: leave a splendid high-tech mess and get not so later on the village goons to do gather-and-collect.

    Never ceases to amaze a thinking public.

    May 19, 2012 at 1:56 am | Reply
    • OBAMADAD

      THEY CAN REVERSE ENGINE ERING FROM THOSE, MOST SIGNIFICANT WAS FROM PAKISTAN.
      EVEN SO, THAT IS A SMALL PART. THE BIGGER ISSUE IS OBAMA AND PENNETTA HAVE GIVEN US TECH TO CHINA.

      May 19, 2012 at 3:08 am | Reply
      • eSafer

        The question is did the significant gains to the Red Dragon began at that earlier crash?

        From the looks of such reliable media feed (and considering the generous period beginning in late March 1999 to late January 2011) China had plenty of time to do their research-and applications-in-valuable-salvage homework:

        http://chinamatters.blogspot.com/2011/01/chinas-j20-stealth-fighter-made-in.html
        http://defensetech.org/2011/01/24/chinese-spies-may-have-taken-f-117-wreckage/
        http://www.newser.com/story/110361/chinas-new-fighter-ripped-off-downed-us-jet.html

        Sure, the debris from the F-117 in Pakistan could have helped along with or added to their cache of stealing efforts, yet the important jump-start was obviously with the one as found wreaked on that farm field in Serbia.

        May 19, 2012 at 5:49 pm |
  32. Jim

    The next world war will be started by idiots in government over bullshit theories political theories and ridiculous religious thought but will be ended by the mass outbreak of disease. It is just a matter of time before half of humanity is cut down by a new plague. After the storm, humanity will flourish once again until the next outbreak.

    May 19, 2012 at 1:53 am | Reply
    • aulac

      it's call the "End of the world" we'll all be punish by god who create and will destroy all of us stubborn, human kiling each others, is just same as animal eating animals. we'll be eaten by natural disasters Dec 2012 here we counting down....and no one can stop it, period.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:16 am | Reply
  33. Janani

    China's GDP will exceed America's GDP by 2016.
    America is a failed state.

    May 19, 2012 at 1:38 am | Reply
    • Jim

      China is going to be destroyed by rising sea levels, massive mudslides, tsunamis, earthquakes, and typhoons. Who cares if China's GDP is going to be greater than that of the US when the sky is pitch black with smoke and people work 18 hours a day in shitty factories to support your communist state. I hear people are less and less happy each year over there. A small number of people are getting rich while everybody else works hard for nothing.

      May 19, 2012 at 1:56 am | Reply
    • jake

      Revisions have now estimated that China's GDP won't surpass the US until 2041. After wal-mart stops importing all your plastic shiit, Chinese economy will collapse

      May 19, 2012 at 2:02 am | Reply
    • Steve

      GDP means nothing. The best countries on earth have much lower GDP's.

      May 19, 2012 at 2:36 am | Reply
    • sawolf

      By 2050 one third of china's population will be over 60. In their rush to modernize they have fouled their environment to such a degree as to poison millions, and the USA is a failed state? Keep dreaming.

      May 19, 2012 at 2:37 am | Reply
  34. tk007e

    I guess it takes time to analyze US stealth technology stolen from Yugoslavia and Pakistan stealth crashes. Can China ever come up with its own technology? All they do is steal and infringe upon standard and international copyright and intellectual property laws.

    May 19, 2012 at 1:32 am | Reply
    • Steve

      Sort of like the US, stealing natural resources all over the world, and killing hundreds of thousands of innocents, overthrowing governments that don't align with them, monopolizing the UN and its Security Council......

      May 19, 2012 at 1:37 am | Reply
      • sawolf

        The rest of the world taught the US well. We wanted to be left alone last century and they dragged the US into not one but two world wars. Now we are proactive, deal with it.

        May 19, 2012 at 2:40 am |
      • Trevor

        First, before you throw out a "ballbark" figure on the number of "innocents" that have died in conflicts the U.S. has been involved in, and directly tie them to direct U.S. military action, stop being lazy. The way you put it you should be pulling specific numbers the U.S. has killed INTENTIONALLY and not due to being in the wrong place and the wrong time or being utilized by insurgents as human shields by deliberately hiding among the civilian population. Yes the U.S. military does have the right to self defense, and if civilians are caught, so be it...we should never, have never and never will compromise our U.S. service men and women's lives for ANY civilians other than our own. No nation on earth makes more effort in developing technology, handcuffing our military on their ROE to minimize civlian casualties that the U.S...period.

        May 19, 2012 at 4:26 am |
    • Janani

      Civilian Victims of USA Foreign Policy
      2004 Palestinian Territories Political support, finance and arms. 1,400 +
      2003 to 2007 Iraq Invasion and Occupation (with UK). 655,000 +
      2006 Palestine, Lebanon Political support and arms. (with UK). 1,300 + (to August)
      2006 Haiti Removal of elected government. (with France). 8,000 + (to September)
      2007 Somalia Removal of government. (with Ethiopia). 2,000 +
      2008 Palestine Political support for siege and killings. 700 +
      2009 Palestine Political support and arms. 1,300 +
      2008 to 2011 Pakistan Unmannded drone attacks. 2,000 +

      May 19, 2012 at 1:41 am | Reply
      • Elms

        50,000,000 people that's the number the USA have liberated for the last sixty years! But of course you don't know that because your ignorant

        May 19, 2012 at 2:16 am |
      • jsav

        not enough? We're working on it...

        May 19, 2012 at 2:19 am |
      • Joseph Tan

        Big deal. 50 million only ? People Liberation Army had liberated the whole China including Tibet, and yet not making any noise.

        July 5, 2014 at 8:59 am |
  35. Jason

    Not worried about this at all considering how the Chinese pilots and electronic suites are still crap, that they're still having trouble with the engines, and that by 2018, the US will be fielding several hundred new stealth jets along side its existing 180 raptors.

    May 19, 2012 at 1:21 am | Reply
    • Janani

      F-22 pilots suffer from a "Raptor Cough" more often than the pilots of other fighters, but the cause also remains unknown.
      80 billion is f-22. and pilots refuse to fly. ha ha ha

      May 19, 2012 at 1:30 am | Reply
      • Elms

        Chinese made! That's another knock off that's what Chinese is good at....faking stuff!

        May 19, 2012 at 2:19 am |
    • Steve

      And you know this because you work for the Chinese air force, i must presume...

      May 19, 2012 at 1:38 am | Reply
    • eSafer

      Yes, Russian-made engine trouble to say.

      Can't wait for a winner accident with at least one of the two built!

      May 19, 2012 at 2:41 am | Reply
  36. jtucker4

    The US intends to buy around 2500 F-35 Lightning II fighters from Lockheed Martin in the coming years. China will have 1 out of date fighter in the next five years. Like it always has been with the US it's all about numbers. It doesn't even matter if China had a better fighter they will never be able to obtain and maintain the amount of craft sustainable to combat the US.

    May 19, 2012 at 1:09 am | Reply
    • Janani

      he total lifecycle cost for the entire American fleet is estimated to be US$1.51 trillion over its 50-year life, or $618 million per plane.
      China is the new superpower. America is a failed state with huge debt. Its debt will be 24 trillion by 2015.

      May 19, 2012 at 1:19 am | Reply
      • Elms

        Super power huh! In your dreams

        May 19, 2012 at 2:20 am |
    • PC

      "Never" ? I am tired of everyone dismissing China. With a population exceeding one billion they are a force we must not underestimate.

      May 19, 2012 at 1:22 am | Reply
  37. brown

    America will bow to its new master, China, in the 21st century.

    May 19, 2012 at 12:47 am | Reply
    • jtucker4

      ROFL they spent 106 billion on military. Yea okay.

      May 19, 2012 at 1:03 am | Reply
      • SnafuBob

        Pretty sure he meant the fact that they have and continue to buy a huge amount of our debt; not own us from a military stand point. Just wait, they will come calling in on that debt and we will not have the capital to pay down on it let alone pay it off.

        May 19, 2012 at 1:20 am |
    • sawolf

      China has a demographic time bomb, more old people than any other nation in history,a lack of females due to their selective abortions, poisoning their environment, increasingly costly and dissatisfied labor, an industrial base increasingly obsolete, and the inefficiency of a command economy.

      May 19, 2012 at 2:45 am | Reply
      • Maersk

        kwok head, never mind whether China is a time bomb or not, what you should worry is that you might have to zuck Chinese kwoks for a living, the same way your uncle does.

        May 19, 2012 at 4:17 am |
  38. phenoy

    The plane is obviously a copycat. I'm willing to bet with 100% certainty that Chinese stealth technology is all stolen, either from hacking out pure cold-era espionage. What the U.S> needs to do is beef up its cybersecurity and invest in a counter-hacking program. Well, maybe, they are already doing so...

    May 19, 2012 at 12:39 am | Reply
    • joe

      How many times can they fly it before they have to throw it away and make a new one?

      May 19, 2012 at 12:49 am | Reply
    • Steve

      They don't need to "spy". There are thousands of Chinese students at USC, UCI and other institutions. We also have thousands of B-1 visa holders from China, Taiwan and other places. I'm sure some of the Taiwanese are doing information collecting for China. Taiwan and Hong Kong are their windows to the world.

      May 19, 2012 at 1:04 am | Reply
  39. dud

    We keep asphyxiating our pilots – maybe we can spy on them and find out how to fix That.

    May 19, 2012 at 12:39 am | Reply
  40. aj

    Great, now the baby-killing commies have stealth. At least the Russians didn't kill babies. They just hosed down civillians.

    May 19, 2012 at 12:36 am | Reply
  41. dud

    It looks so familiar........kinda like how the Russian Space Shuttle looked so familiar...........Course the Chinese stole 'terrabytes' worth of information from DoD computers on the US Stealth fighter. suppose it makes sense that it would look Just like it.

    May 19, 2012 at 12:35 am | Reply
  42. Bill

    You know, I don't believe that is a real photo. It looks like a rendering to me.

    May 19, 2012 at 12:28 am | Reply
  43. Vince Carter

    It looks takeable. Just another knockoff copycat piece of junk.

    May 19, 2012 at 12:27 am | Reply
    • Jason

      Wow, it has wings, engines, and a fuselage, therefore it must be a knockoff. F-ing mindless troll.

      May 19, 2012 at 1:19 am | Reply
  44. SPQR

    The Nazi's armed themselves right under the noses of the French and British. The Nazi's were in good terms with the French and British until one day they decided to start WWII. When are we going to learn from history ?

    May 19, 2012 at 12:20 am | Reply
    • billiam

      i agree people think. oh it wont happen to me..

      May 19, 2012 at 1:54 am | Reply
  45. fisureking

    We were developing stealth technology in the 1950s shortly after discovering radar itself. The only real surprise is that its taken the Chinese this long to start.

    May 18, 2012 at 11:51 pm | Reply
    • MadJerry

      You guys all forget that having tools is not the same as knowing how to use them effectively. The US has nearly 30 years of experience in deploying stealth technology to its full effectiveness. Latecomers do usually have the benefit of knowledge that pioneers didn't have but operational experience wins every time.

      May 19, 2012 at 12:14 am | Reply
    • SPQR

      Who knows what else will be outfitted with Stealth Technology by the Chinese.

      May 19, 2012 at 12:22 am | Reply
      • JeffinIL

        They already make stealth underwear. They creep up on you.

        May 19, 2012 at 12:24 am |
      • Maersk

        And what do you have, a stealth chasityy belt that prevent your uncle from mounting you?

        May 19, 2012 at 4:21 am |
      • JeffinIL

        That didn't even make sense.

        May 19, 2012 at 12:14 pm |
    • Joseph Tan

      Don"t bluff. The father of stealth is a Russian.

      July 5, 2014 at 9:07 am | Reply
  46. scott

    let them have a stealth fighter, a nuke sub, and a nuke air craft carrier....let them have 500millon in their army....if the chicom military is like anything else produced in china it will be crap...just look at their tires, drywall, dogfood, toothpaste, toys with lead based paint..everything that comes out of china is crap.

    May 18, 2012 at 11:49 pm | Reply
  47. Joe

    Every time we buy something from China we're helping fund their military. Any US company that manufactures in China is giving away our technology. Every communist country that ever existed has been dishonest. I'm just as guilty as anybody else, but we need to stop buying Chinese made products our government needs to tax the hell out of anything made in China even if it has a US company name on it.

    May 18, 2012 at 11:44 pm | Reply
  48. ArtInChicago

    Nope, it will be available next year after they process the data that the have hacked from Pentagon servers and all the intellectual property they have stolen from industry.

    May 18, 2012 at 11:40 pm | Reply
    • algoreles

      hmmm...look for a presidential decree to help our chinese "friends" because itis the "fair" thing to do.

      May 18, 2012 at 11:52 pm | Reply
  49. BigRed

    The Chinese can never come up with something truly new or original. I take that back. They are the first army to have pink uniforms with white go-go boots and miniature white ak-47s.

    May 18, 2012 at 11:39 pm | Reply
    • Maersk

      And you must be one of those innovative and creative American kwok zucking kwok zucker, am I right?

      May 19, 2012 at 4:23 am | Reply
      • Maersk likes roosters

        "Kwok" sucking is all you think about huh? Closet much?

        May 19, 2012 at 6:38 am |
  50. squincher

    if this fighter will be made the same way the made in china stuff sold at Wal-Mart is made, well............................

    May 18, 2012 at 11:38 pm | Reply
  51. Benjamin S.

    The United States of America recognizes and is responding to the perceivable threats from the communists. We are pulling back forces in Japan that are within first strike proximity, and creating stronger footholds in countries like Australia with amble aircraft/airfield accessibility. We still have the best technologies and the best weapons, but more importantly, we still have the best men and women serving in our armed forces. Sporting a new era of intelligence gathering and clandestine operations of our nations best and brightest. Jus ad bellum.

    May 18, 2012 at 11:19 pm | Reply
    • JeffinIL

      Say, why don't you copy and paste that several more times. I don't think I got it on the first of many posts.

      May 18, 2012 at 11:45 pm | Reply
      • dud

        When you know no one ever listens to you, you have to repeat yourself until the thought goes away or someone responds.

        May 19, 2012 at 12:37 am |
    • dan c

      right on

      May 19, 2012 at 12:18 pm | Reply
  52. Benjamin S.

    The United States of America recognizes and is responding to the perceivable threats from the communists and are pulling back forces in Japan that are within first strike proximity, and creating stronger footholds in countries like Australia with amble aircraft/airfield acceptability. We still have the best technologies and the best weapons, but more importantly, we still have the best men and women serving in our armed forces. Sporting a new era of intelligence gathering and clandestine operations of our nations best and brightest. Jus ad bellum.

    May 18, 2012 at 11:16 pm | Reply
  53. LookToChina

    China knows all the secrets of the US not the other way around. Get lost!

    May 18, 2012 at 11:15 pm | Reply
    • BigRed

      Yes and then they build knock offs of our systems which then have built in identifiers because they are just like the Americans. The Americans build countermeasures and sensors that will easily pick up the Chinese (not so) stealthy aircraft. The problem is that by the time the Chinese have a prototype, the U.S. already has a newer technology.

      May 18, 2012 at 11:42 pm | Reply
      • JeffinIL

        Like what? We killed the F-22 and it's not looking good for the F-35 either.

        May 18, 2012 at 11:46 pm |
      • Trevo

        The U.S. is developing 2 generations beyond the F-22 and this Chinese copy...

        May 18, 2012 at 11:50 pm |
      • Trevor

        Killed the F-22? I'm sitting in the desert right now and I'm looking at some Raptors right now...

        May 18, 2012 at 11:52 pm |
      • JeffinIL

        You aren't going to see any new ones. We quit making them. Period. It's a dead program. The U.S. Government is content with F-15's and F-18's.

        May 18, 2012 at 11:53 pm |
      • Maersk

        They even made Chinese copies like you because your mother opened her legs to whoever came along and it happened to be a Chinese. It's time you acknowledge you have a Chinese father.

        May 19, 2012 at 4:28 am |
      • Trevor

        Jeff- If you want to use the word "dead" and use the definition of no longer producing anymore "new" airframes... whatever characterization you want to use pal. If you want to keep it to that "definition" then other than the JSF and UAVs name ONE MDS (MIssion Design Series) airframe that the U.S. is rolling off the production line for the U.S. military. The existing airframes all have room for growth/improvements and already have Block upgrades in the works and the Raptor is no different.

        May 19, 2012 at 4:41 am |
      • Maersk likes roosters

        Maersk. If his mum opened her legs to a chinaman she didn't even feel a thing. Want to get a ruler out and see who is more of a man?

        May 19, 2012 at 6:45 am |
      • JeffinIL

        We fielded only 187 Raptors. Big deal. There are no new programs rolling off the assembly line. The F-35 has only delivered a little over 60 aircraft and the future of that program is in doubt. Unless our government decides to stay on the cutting edge, we aren't going to have a significant inventory of 5th generation aircraft let alone progressing further in military aviation.

        May 19, 2012 at 12:19 pm |
      • Trevor

        Jeff- 187 may not be a significant # but you can essentially take that # and multiply it by 3, if you want to compare them to the most recent MSIP F-15C. One Raptor in terms of employment and capabilites is like having 3 Eagles for one Raptor and if you want to compare it to this Chinese knockoff, you're looking at around 2 to 1.

        May 20, 2012 at 9:08 am |
  54. Benjamin S.

    Benjamin S.
    The United States of America recognizes and is responding to the perceivable threats from the communists and are pulling back forces in Japan that are within first strike proximity, and creating stronger footholds in countries like Australia with amble aircraft/airfield acceptability. We still have the best technologies and the best weapons, but more importantly, we still have the best men and women surviving in our armed forces. Sporting a new era of intelligence gathering and clandestine operations of our nations best and brightest. Jus ad bellum.

    May 18, 2012 at 11:15 pm | Reply
    • Noch

      Well, this year Chung Wah Association and City of Perth have organised this huge porfermance and parade thing for Sunday 1st Feb starting 3:45pm in Forrest Place.This is the only public one I guess but there are at least 2-3 more admission-with-ticket-only events.Yours truely started learning this traditional Chinese musical instrument a month and a half ago, and will making my debut in these porfermances

      November 11, 2012 at 5:29 am | Reply
  55. Larry

    Another chinese knock-off......hahahahah China you suck!

    May 18, 2012 at 11:14 pm | Reply
    • Jason

      Knock off from what? There's no other aircraft out there with this airframe or are you just saying that anything that's made in China's a knockoff?

      May 19, 2012 at 1:17 am | Reply
      • David Hoffman

        It is pretty obvious, from photos of the aircraft, the Chinese have borrowed heavily from the F-22 and F-35 aerodynamic ideas and general exterior configuration. As you point out, the details of the airframe and subsystems are not well known. For example, did they borrow the on board oxygen generation system technology, or did they use a traditional liquid oxygen system? Are they planning to use an infrared search and tracking system? If so, how extensive and comprehensive will it be? Are they going to keep a cannon in the weapons mix for operational aircraft? Or do they go all missile to gain more space for fuel to get more range?

        May 19, 2012 at 8:28 pm |
    • Maersk

      And Larry you literally suck. I don't mean your thumb, I mean your uncle's dirty and limply kwok.

      May 19, 2012 at 4:34 am | Reply
  56. Benjamin S.

    The United States of America recognizes and is responding to the perceivable threats to from the communists and are pulling back forces in Japan that are within first strike proximity and creating stronger footholds in countries like Australia with amble aircraft/airfield acceptability. We still have the best technologies and the best weapons, but more importantly we still have the best men and women surviving in our armed forces. Sporting a new era of intelligence gathering and clandestine operations of our nations best and brightest.

    May 18, 2012 at 11:13 pm | Reply
  57. juanmoretime

    Maybe we should outsource the F-22 Raptor to the chinks. They can probably build it cheaper and with our own technology, which they stole.

    May 18, 2012 at 11:10 pm | Reply
    • JeffinIL

      We don't make F-22's anymore.

      May 18, 2012 at 11:48 pm | Reply
  58. Richard

    Remember when they predicted a Russian nuke was at least 5 years in the future, then they had one a year later?

    May 18, 2012 at 11:02 pm | Reply
    • Jay

      Pretty sure the intelligence in 2012 is a lot better than in the 50's

      May 18, 2012 at 11:20 pm | Reply
      • Victor

        I am not sure. U. S. A. is still looking for WMD in Irak

        May 19, 2012 at 11:10 am |
  59. JohnnyInSNJ

    They'll take off from 30 year old Russian oil tankers converted to Aircraft Carriers.

    May 18, 2012 at 11:00 pm | Reply
    • dsb

      They will be building their own very shortly...no need to buy from Russia.

      May 18, 2012 at 11:03 pm | Reply
    • .....

      They have aircraft carriers being launched next year....

      May 18, 2012 at 11:07 pm | Reply
    • Jason

      I doubt it, this plane's way too large and heavy to take off from a less than 200m long runway. Also, why would they need a converted tanker when they got an almost operational Russian fleet carrier?

      May 19, 2012 at 1:16 am | Reply
  60. It's got electrolytes!

    Six years away? Maybe they should build faster jets.

    May 18, 2012 at 10:59 pm | Reply
  61. dsb

    Take them out now while we still can. 20 years from now we will be Great Britain and they will be the US circa 1940. Maybe sooner....

    May 18, 2012 at 10:59 pm | Reply
  62. Bubba

    I'm scured.

    May 18, 2012 at 10:41 pm | Reply
  63. HannibalTheOne

    We might as well start learning Mandarin.

    May 18, 2012 at 10:39 pm | Reply
  64. Pat

    This is what a responsible superpower should be doing (unlike other superpowers that like going gun-ho everywhere they go.

    "Various sections of the report also mentioned the larger role China is playing around the globe with non-traditional security missions like humanitarian assistance and disaster relief operations, non-combatant evacuation operations, military medical assistance missions and U.N. peacekeeping missions."

    May 18, 2012 at 4:46 pm | Reply
  65. Hahahahahahaha

    Why fighter jets? Just cash in the US bonds!!! Hahahahahaha

    May 18, 2012 at 4:06 pm | Reply
    • sawolf

      6% of American debt is owned by the chinese.

      May 19, 2012 at 2:50 am | Reply
  66. HINT ,, 5 years to lare

    we can see them coming

    May 18, 2012 at 3:53 pm | Reply
  67. william

    what

    May 18, 2012 at 3:21 pm | Reply

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