Troop protector relegated to the parking lot
By Mike Mount
After spending more than $40 billion on an emergency program to save U.S. troops from roadside bomb attacks, the U.S. Army is trying to figure out what to do with tens of thousands of mine-resistant vehicles headed home from the battlefield.
The Mine Resistant Ambush Protected Vehicle program was rushed into design and production at the height of the war in Iraq as the military struggled to identify a way to protect the troops who were being killed in large numbers each day.
The hulking, heavily armored trucks, designed with a V-shaped hull to deflect the devastating effects of shrapnel and explosions from roadside bombs, played a unique and successful combat role in Iraq. But the MRAP’s extended height and extreme weight means most models can only be used in flat, open terrain or on wide roads, eliminating them from use in narrow and more rugged terrain.
Lighter, more mobile versions were designed for Afghanistan. But as the U.S. military changes its focus to emerging threats in Asia, the Army is struggling to figure out whether the MRAP can play a role in a future military where new combat vehicle programs are moving forward with new technologies.
"There are a number of people out there that are concerned with what we will do with what was a tremendous investment in MRAPS," said Col. Mark Barbosa, division chief for force development logistics, for the U.S. Army.
Army logisticians predict there will be about 20,000 MRAP variants returning from Afghanistan and Kuwait, where they have been piling up to be shipped back to the United States after service in Iraq. The Army’s plan for now is to repair and update them and put many of the MRAPS into prepositioned storage around the world for use in potential future conflicts, as well as put a smaller number in with existing support units.
With few options on the table for the MRAP, there is little or no uproar from Congress that a massive surplus of these vehicles will be sitting around for years to come - and could be potentially useless if a time comes to use them in combat theaters with different conditions than Iraq.
"The MRAP was a needed requirement to save lives and an investment was made," said one congressional official not authorized to speak on the record. "If you have them, isn’t it best to keep them on hand for now?"
But that is the problem with the MRAP: It was born and designed out of an immediate need in war and was a wild success. A lot of money was spent to protect the troops, but that leaves the military with a lot of vehicles that may never be used.
Congress is putting some pressure on the Army to determine whether there will be any role for the fleet in the future force structure. The House Armed Services Committee is asking the Department of Defense for a plan for the future of the vehicles.
The military has identified at least one role it is confident the vehicle can be used for years to come - mine clearing and explosive ordnance disposal, threats that will always endure in wars. Still others will go to train troops how to use the behemoths until troops leave Afghanistan after 2014.
But former Defense Secretary Robert Gates - the man responsible for pushing a stubborn military into designing and swiftly fielding the MRAP into the battlefield, saving hundreds if not thousands of lives - was not worried about the future.
"My attitude was, if you are in a war and kids’ lives are at stake, you’re all in," Gates said in an interview last year.
"You do whatever is necessary protect them and help them accomplish their mission, and you’ve got this stuff left over at the end, so be it…you also have left over a lot of living kids."
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Tremendous issues here. I'm very glad to look your post. Thank you so much and I am having a look ahead to contact you. Will you kindly drop me a e-mail?
Hey could I buy one to go grocery shopping with, please U.S. Army???????????????
What about sending these trucks out to all the bomb squads and SWAT departments throughout the US, I know it may be overkill for some departments to own these truck but I think it would be better then having them rust in the open parking lot. That just my idea.
As if this sort of problem were new? Where are all the thousands upon thousands of Higgins boats from WWII? What about the tens of thousands of fighter aircraft from that war? We go to war, build the weapons and tools to fight it, and then dispose of them when they are needed no longer. This is controversy? The military's plan makes the most sense - store them in case we need them. Sure, we could probably sell some, but they are massive beasts (seriously, if you've never seen them up close, you have no idea) and wouldn't be useful to most countries or corporations. Save the best all-around models and perhaps we'll need them again. Iran has similar terrain to Iraq, after all...
Why not sell those not needed anymore as EDA to friendly or allied countries?
we wont know if they turn hostile then they would be able to make them and could use them against us
I find it very intriguing all the comments about this story. If only the news folks got the story right....they really only know half of the story and make the rest up. I'm in the MRAP family, and I can say that these trucks will not be scrapped. These trucks have significantly helped out....as for the mud and terrain comments, only certain trucks have issues. Not all do. But there are challenges and these challenges are helping out future military programs design a better vehicle.
Kaffee: Did you order the MRAP's?
Jessep: You're goddamn right I did!!
You can't handle the truth! Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinberg? I have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: that Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall. You need me on that wall.
We use words like honor, code, loyalty...we use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then questions the manner in which I provide it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you're entitled to!
Go back to your Jack Nicholson blow-up doll and suck its dick.
Nice language
Thanks.
hahahahahaha, those very simple words just may be the funniest thing i've seen all day
Yeah, but aside from your basic lack of intellect in being profane and acting like a monkey at the same time has its merits also.....
How about sell them?
1. To a number of them to US cities for use as SWAT or Bomb Squad vehicles. Sold at a discount, they'd be cheaper than purchasing similar special tactic vehicles. And you'd probably also create some jobs for the engineers that currently maintain them.
2. US Peacekeeping missions.
3. Sell to armor car companies. Retrofit and repaint them for use as armor cars.
4. Sell to Blackwater (or whatever their name is now). Let's face it, even as we "pull out of the middle east" we're gonna be paying hundreds of mercenaries to do contract work there. They might as well have a safer vehicle.
I meant UN Peacekeeping missions.
The author Mike Mount. states, "But former Defense Secretary Robert Gates – the man responsible for pushing a stubborn military into designing and swiftly fielding the MRAP into the battlefield, saving hundreds if not thousands of lives – was not worried about the future."
THAT'S BS. HE DIDN'T PUSH A "STUBBORN MILITARY". THIS GOMER, BOBBLEHEAD GATES WAS SECDEF, FOR GOSH SAKES. HE COULD HAVE MADE AN MRAP DECISION RIGHT FROM THE GET GO, WHICH WOUILD HAVE RESULTED IN A LOT LESS DEATHS DUE TO ENEMY IEDs.. BUT KNOW, HE DIDN'T WANT TO SPEND THE $$$. EACH MIL SERVICE WANTED THE MRAP, BUT GATES WAFFLED ON SHELLING OUT THE $$$ UNTIL A LOT MORE YOUNG MEN AND WOMEN DIED! ! HE KNEW THE MRAP WAS NEEDED FROM HIS FIRST DAY AS SECDEF.
THEN AT END OF HIS TIME AS SECDEF, HE AND AN ADM NAMED MULLIN, WHO WAS THE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF, AND ANOTHER BOBBLEHEAD, WHO WAS ALSO LEAVING HIS JOB, STARTED PUSHING FOR VETS TO LOSE HEALTHCARE BENEFITS AND MAKE THEM PAY MORE FOR HEALTHCAR COVERAGE.
BOTH GATES AND MULLIN ARE TWO-FACED, HYPOCRITES, WHO TELL THE MIL YOU ARE DOING A GREAT JOB, THEN THEY BOTH STICK KNIVES IN THE BACKS OF THE MIL, BY PUSSHING FOR THE LOSS OF VET BENEFITS AND PUSHING FOR VETS TO PAY SIGNIFICANTLY MORE FOR HEALTHCARE COVERAGE. THEY BOTH WERE YES MEN TO SOCIALIST OBAMA, WHO ALSO IS A TWO FACED HYPOCRITE, SINCE HE PRAISES THE MILITARY, AND THEN HE KNIFES THE MILITARY IN THE BACK BY WANTING LEGISLATION PASSED TO CUT BENEFITS AND MAKE THE VETS PAY SIGNIFICANTLY MORE FOR HEALTHCARE. WHAT A ZERO HE IS.
VOTE ANYONE BUT OBAMA IOT TO SAVE THIS COUNTRY FROM SOCIALISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
First off, I'd give you the finger. Second, it's too late, most countries including ours already have some socialist programs embedded into their laws. Thirdly, if we do get rid of them, there will a lot more crimes including riots, buildings on fire, and gunshots all over the country because we forced the unfortunates to make desperate decisions in order to survive. So don't mess with our welfare!
ALPHAMALE, as with most weapons platforms it was overpriced and even though needed it was on the backburner and showed up late to the dance. We also have too many variants that were overpriced...I got it. And though I cant condone disparageng remarks about senior civilian and military leadership, I follow orders as best I can. I do feel the frustration, I do. The military has become politicized too much. And remember the elected official is a politicia first and formeost and will always piss somone off...I wish it wasnt that way, but it is.
To the other commentor...are you on welfare? I work for a living and I think that I can help support welfare for awhile, but feel its a temporary fix. Another persons upbringing...bad life decisions...thats not my problem forever. There are disenfrachised and poor that can be helped, but they must be helped onto their feet. It does affect minorities more, but you cant blame me for it and make me support them! People are having children they cant support and then have a few more...doing drugs and committing crimes to support it. You say theyll be crime if welfare is cut...I say continue welfare, but drug test and make the people clean parks...roads...whatever. In my civilian job, I have seen people buying steak, alcohol and paying the grocery partially with food stamps...then they go out to their nice car...Ive even seen an escaldade driving wwelfare recipoient. Meanwhile I'm in line buying hamburger and drinking tap water...something is wrong...and if you think welfare is a "right" your wrong!
LOL – welfare is definitely abused by some. I recall a large minority woman in front of me in the grocery store, wearing a genuine mink coat, paying for food with "food stamps". She then had the clerk walk her cart out to her dark-red Jaguar XJS parked in the handicap spot.
I also know of a lady that has 9 kids – all on welfare. She get's x per kid per month, and has a live-in boyfriend whom she will not wed as the welfare check(s) will cease. She makes FAR more income on welfare than she could on a job. All she needs is more kids to play the game.
Sure there's lots of other stories like this. The right-winger in me says that we reserve the right to randomly drug test those on welfare. No pass, no check! We also reserve the right to randomly inspect your govt. housing. If we find HDTV's or XBOX'es.. or an Escalade/Tahoe parked out front.. you are out.
If you are unemployed for more than 6 months, you will show up for the work detail 3 days a week (leave the other 2 for job hunting) and you will work on street/highway details, or your check is gone.
That would fix the abuse.
@alphamail – I hate to break it to you dude, but the US has been a socialist country for more than 70+ yrs. Remember SS, Medicare and Medicaid? Those are socialist programs BTW – in case that escaped you while yelling.
Govt needs to cut costs. I'm all for supporting those that serve our country, but many of you are no different than the other freeloaders we have. They want something for nothing, or as in typical right-wing fashion they want cuts, a balanced budget and less govt, but don't touch my check !!! Either way, none of that is the fault of the CIC, is it.
So you're whining about wanting free healthcare as a veteran and then you're whining about Obama being a socialist? Hello? Free health care = socialism.
"Free health care" earned as a result of spending years of one's life serving their country, risking one's life and health, suffering injuries and wounds.
Versus "free health care" given as a present for merely having a pulse.
Only a raving Leftist tool could confuse the benefits veterans have earned with the handouts that welfare parasites are given in return for voting Democrat.
Mothball them in Tucson or somewhere similar in the southwest desert as the Air Force has done with thousands of surplus and/or obsolete aircraft. They may come in very handy someday for some unanticipated situation. I very much doubt that they could be driven legally on the highways due to both their weight and height. There must surely be some salvage and scrap value to be had, but it would probably be only a tiny fraction of what they cost us. Might be useful in the upcoming nationwide riots and race wars. Then there is always the possibility of a zombie apocalypse. They would be ideal for that. The 1% might need them badly when the 99% decide they have had enough.
They can weigh up to 70K lbs, so yes there are restrictions. Especially during the end of winter after the ground thaws out.
That would be a good idea to start a new war now: so the equipment could be efficiently relocated without wasting all that money for unnecessary transportation to and from US and interim storage.
Nah, new war new stuff. That's how we like to do it.
I'd like to have one personally. But looks to have a little bit of a blind spot.
They have front and rear view cameras and large rear view mirrors...blind spots aren't that bad.
If this vehicle saved even one life (apparently it has saved thousands) then wouldn't it be worth it?
Would it be worth it if it was your son, daughter, brother, sister, aunt, uncle, mom, dad whose life was saved because of this vehicle?
I'm sure some will call this a waste of an investment but then have no problem condoning the billions wasted by Congress all the time on non-military spending. How much money do we spend to keep rich celebrities from not farming on their vast acreage in places like Montana or Wyoming? How much do we waste trying to keep that single mother with twelve kids out of the workforce so she can continue being a baby machine?
Do you really want to know? Because the reality is, all the domestic spending you are describing pales in comparison to defense spending.
No – actually it wouldn't be worth it. That worn-out line is so ridiculous and doesn't apply to real-world decisions.
Mike, thanks for the comment...Yogurt & Edog (Sic)...not so much yours....
I can respect opinion, but Edog is looking at it fiscally...how much is a life worth? Is a minority child from a "ghetto" worth more than a somone else? Is a Soldeir worth less? How much wuld you spend to protect a child form attack? Or are you implying that its the Soldiers "fault" for being there?
What would you rather spend it on...free college? Would it be for all or only minorities..at least at first?
Look Humans have always fought. coutnries have wars. If you dont like the way the country is...find one more to your liking and live there for awhile. We have things in the USA that are good...I've seen good and bad overseas. But dont diminish my life or contribution based on a price tag. Fight to get the price tag reduced! Companies that make weapons systems pay good wages...healthcare benefits and give meaning to lives. Granted the product is probably overpriced and that goes to the CEOs or investors and I dont like that.
If somone isnt smart enough to get a job,...well its more than likely they skipped school...joined a gang or something like that. If they have amental condition, there is social security or other benefit. Dont make an excuse that because a Soldier is protected somone didnt get an education or fed.
Why not sell them to Afghanistan and Iraq in exchange for oil...? They're going to be needing them to keep the peace and we could use some of that oil supply we spent a fortune and the lives of more than a few good men protecting..
Well, Afghanistan and Iraq own armies may have totally different view on all that security issue and use totally different approaches.
They will be useful to transport troops around safely when the people in the U.S. realize they are in need of a North American spring.
If the GOP gets in power they will first be used against the Occupy Wall Street people then turned on the general public ala Northern Ireland.
That probably was the plan – who knows!
If you truely think like this then you are a moron.
No, I am not. I do not give people too much credit for being very clever! So that was a joke.
Better hang onto them for at least 7 more months. By then we'll know whether the country stays Democrat or switches to Republiscum. If it goes Republiscum our Nation will probably follow Bush's led and be drug back into a contracted war so that there is more money for the wealthy few and we might need these vehicles. Then again, they may decide to get a whole new vehicle design and contract whether or not it's needed just to pass the money around. If the country goes Democrat, we can probably scrap them.
If Obama is re-elected you can most certainly scrap them. Because we'll be owned by China by then.
too late Mike.
I hate to break it to you Mike – even tho' it will burst your hater bubble – that the current debt ceiling was NOT Obama's fault, even tho he did have LARGE deficits. We were ALREADY "owned by CHINA" before Dubya even took office. Please check some FACTS before spouting. Perhaps we could sell the off to the Chinese to reduce the debt load?
Demo-idiot or Repubbl-idiot...right now we are screwed. I'd like to just have a choice of a "leader" that trys to fix a problem and isnt worried about this party or that party. Preferably one that doesnt want to get re-elected because they think they are the only one that can lead.
So whom would that be Ken?
Both parties have the whole process – from primaries to redistricting, gerrmandering, protecting incumbents and the Electoral College – sewn up. There's little chance for a 3rd party. Look at what happened to Ross Perot and the TP's. Annihilated or assimilated.
I can dream cant I...*sigh* (bangs head on table)
i'm not into anyone party...I'm liberal on some issues and conservative on ohters but it seems like in politics people are catering to the left or right side. Maybe not the Ultra Liberal or conservative..but still not in the center. I believe in benefits for those that work, temporary support for those that cant. a fair tax and honesty in governemnt.
I know we cant afford free healthcare for all if we allow people to abuse their bodies or have 20 kids, but I do want some coverage for all...just not sure how. I also want educational opportunities for people, but teachers deserve better pay and tuition cant be free if we want better classrooms computers and teachers.
And I absolutly dont think we should cut pmilitary personnel that are working for this country in order to pay for education or healthcare. I think we need a strong leader to guide, educate and mediate for us.
Wouldn't they Iraqi and Afghan armies find these useful to protect their troops? If we don't have a use for them, but they do we should sell them.
Except they would be buying them with the money we gave them.
That is right. And the money you have gave them are already stolen: so will have to give more for that option to work!
Sell them to civilians in South America. As security conditions continue to deteriorate in countries like Argentina, Bolivia and Venezuela, many of them will be glad to take them off your hands.
How about Mexico for their war on drugs. Cartels have them out gunned, this would help.
I am certain that law enforcement departments would welcome these type of vehicles for their operations!
Give at least one to every city in the U.S. that has a Fourth of July parade.
The solution is to give another $40 billion to the manufacturers so they could try to turn these vehicles into something useful! It is not all about money: you also have to think about keeping people busy and their families provided for!
This article makes a mute point. Hardware is often situation specific and if it is effective then it should be used. The teeth that were welded onto the front of tanks to break out of the hedgerows in Normandy were not useful once that part of the campaign was over but that doesn't mean that they were a bad investment!!
FYI, its Moot point not Mute
Norman, I like your point, and your reference. They went through many contraptions during the immediate days after D Day trying to overcome those damn hedgerows.
Sell, Lease, or Loan to American PMC (Private Military Companies) who are currently employed in hostile areas like Iraq, Afghanistan, and some other hot spots in the world. It could help encourage both clients and industry to use pmc's, leading to more money, jobs and give our retired veterans the job opportunity to continue their former profession if they wish to do so. If it actually works or not, don't know not an expert. Just some greedy broke college kid.
Seel them to India & Pakistan
Simple. Sell them to the UN for Counterinsurgency in South Africa.
Flat open terrain and great protection from druglords or rampaging rhinos!
Sell them to the public. I bet there are some rich soccer moms out there looking to upgrade from their HUMVEE...
Epic. I love it! Can't wait to see a few of these on the highway with stick figure family bumper stickers...
Auction them off like FEMA trailers. I'll buy one, paint it black and red, take it mud riding.
Can paint it any color you like, but do not try it in mud or any rugged terrain! Check out the third paragraph from the top – many people here miss it for some reason.
Could probably donate a few to police departments for their needs in standoff situations.
Convert them into icecream trucks.
Or a food truck. I'd line up for a food truck that looks like this.
do these vehicles have air conditioning??????
Yes, they do. We would literally die without it, especially since you cannot open a window. 4-inch thick glass doesn't roll down!
Just auction off a few thousand of them to the many wealthy civilians who would love a toy for off-roading.
The gas mileage on these behemoths must be awful, but they are practically indestructible. Obviously the ideal vehicle for the typical Florida "tea party" soccer mom to go shopping at Wal-Mart for Cheez Doodles.
I spent all of 2011 riding in MRAPs on missions. If they were lighter or shorter, they would be far less protective. The gunner (14 feet up) has an outstanding field of view, which helps spot problems or bad actors ahead. This vehicle was PERFECT for our need, but that's about the only things it's good for. Historically, we have been in a major conflict about every 10 years in the past century, so they won't be sitting idle for too long.
They would probably sit around, get rusty, and into disrepair. Plus, some congressman looking to be friendly with the environmental folk will push some bill requiring military to use only hybrid or electric based vehicles soon and then we'd have to dump them all.
Very expensive but protecting the soldiers is # 1. But.......I'm biased. My son is a soldier.
thats not really biased, we all want to bring home as many troops as possible. even if you don't agree with the war we should help the troops come home as safe as possible
Understandible.
What kind of gas mileage do they get? Looks like the perfect vehicle for my morning commute to work.
Crappy Mileage..couple MPG I guess...mostly due to the weight. Military vehicles are mostly diesel...reliable...idles without overheating..simple parts to repair. But mileage suffers. On the plus side the military is investing in Hybrid...on the bad side it costs way more in some applications.
Celebs are sure to want one, especially those early adopters of Hummers. Then every redneck south of the Mason Dixon line will want to use one in the next Monster Truck rally.
I'd say sell them at a high mark-up to anyone who wants one. There are enough Mitt Romney types out there with the cash to buy them all up.
Pretty biased against people from the South, aren't we?
Well I wonder if rednecks have the money you think they do and I'm sorry i'm not sure if your labeling Romney a redneck or not.
Just save them for the next upcoming pointless war.
Would they work for relief agencies that help during disasters?
That is a great idea!
http://www.Hear-The-Truth.com
Let them sit at some armory for some 40 years until the bottom starts to rust out. Then sell them to military/car collectors with to much money and time on their hands like the U.S. Military does with everything else it builds.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!!! I LOVE AMERICA BITCHES!!! NOBODY GON TAKE AWAY MY BABY BOYYY. I'LL KILLL SKANKY BASTARDS AND ALLLL OF THEM LIBRAEL SONS A BITCHES!!!! FUCK YOU ALL. I'M A STRONG BLACK WOMAN THAT CAN DEFEND HER COUNTRY BY HERSELF. BLESS AMERICA!!!!