Female U.S. submariners investigated for fraud
By Mike Mount
Two of the first women to be chosen by the U.S. Navy to serve on submarines have had their duties reassigned and are being investigated for fraud, according to U.S. Navy officials.
U.S. Navy investigators are looking at whether the two women committed fraud by claiming excessive expenses while they trained for their submarine duty, according to Cmdr. Monica Rousselow, a spokesman for the Navy's submarine forces. The investigation began in February.
While details of the case and the officers names are not being released because the investigation is ongoing, a U.S. Navy official with knowledge of the matter said the two women are suspected of misrepresenting information about leases in their travel documents so their reimbursement pay was higher than it should have been.
Originally, a third female officer was being investigated but she was cleared of wrongdoing three weeks ago, Rousselow said.
Both officers have been temporarily reassigned to duties at the U.S. Naval submarine base at Kings Bay, Georgia, until the investigation is over, according to Rousselow.
The three officers were among a group of 24 women who were the first to be assigned to U.S. submarines in 2010 after a high-profile change of policy by the Navy that reversed the ban on women being part of the "silent service."
After being selected, the women went through an intensive 15-month submarine officer training program, which includes nuclear power school, submarine training and the Submarine Officer Basic Course.
The first of the 24 started their assignments on submarines in November and December of last year, Rousselow said.
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i was in the air force in the early 80's.they took fraud and waste abuse seriously.they let it be known worldwide(i was stationed in turkey at the time)that two 06's thats a real big deal,got caught falsifying travel claims they shared a room and claimed reinbursement for two singe rooms these two men were busted down to E1's lost all retirement benefits and were sent for a short stay in levenworth.they let me and every other officer in the world know about this during aweekly officer staff meeting to scare the hell out of every living active service officer .
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I am a women in high school and ALL I want to do after high school is be in the military.
Hell why does it matter if we have women in the military
1. Israel makes EVERYONE enlist (oh my that means women too)
2. women and men are both doing the same thing,(which is more than most of you), putting themselves in danger to protect sorry bastards like some of you.
apparently you didnt do your research because men do do more in the military because women dont serve the front lines. they mainly patrol the areas captured and dont see much combat
Plus, PT standards for women are much lower than that of males. In terms of push up requirements, an army perfect score for a 17-21 year old male is 71 push ups, with the lowest score you can recieve and still pass being 42 pushups. For females a perfect score is 42 pushups. Until women are held at the standards of men in combat, they should not be allowed in the military, even for pogue duties. And women are not allowed to do combat related duties. They either clean, cook, drive trucks or other non direct duties.
Pardon them if they spent excessively on cosmetics and deodorants. After all in enclosed chambers for months without generous showers…
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They signed up for the seamen.
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A lot of the comments on this page is exactly why I do not tell anyone I am a veteran.
Or is it because you served as a latrine orderly?
Awwww, c'mon – he didn't deserve that.
Come on dudes – I spent 20 years in teh Marines. I'm as old school as they get and there's nothing wrong with women in the Navy. I guess I still hold on to the belief that they shouldn't be front line soldiers (or Marines) becasue we've all seen some of the savagery of war, but women can serve in combat roles in the air and in the sea, or under the sea. we've got to catch up with the rest of the world sooner or later.
Wait a minute..this can't be right...aren't we supposed to replace all the male Secret Service agents with females because they are morally superior?
that's a laugh, morally superior? I'm not anti female, but all people are corupt and will do what the can get away with. As Chris rock says men lie the most, but women tell the biggest lies
of course we need women in the military. somebody has to cook and clean. and of course iron clothes
OK, Look. The navy is going to have to get used to the idea that now we have Gays and Women serving in the military and in Submarine Service, that more and more tampons are going to be essential to keeping the place shipshape. And they don't come cheap you know!
I served for 33 years, If this story was about a couple of male officers it would not even be news. Some of my fellow male officers made false claims and exaggerated their expenses all the time. The higher the rank the worse it got. Nobody ever even bothered to check in 95% of the cases, and those that did usually got a "no pay due" payslip, because the disallowed phony expenses were merely deducted from their pay. I don't even recall a case where serious charges were brought under the UCMJ.
WC, You got that right. I left the AF as an E5. I remember after being transferred any claims I filed were checked and double checked. But the officers were pretty much given a free ride. Same for TDY, I had to fill out forms and was given a set amount. But Senior NCOs and officers were able to claim just about anything. But I agree with you if this had been men being investigated it would not be news.
WC,
You are wrong – do a search for "USAF officer convicted of fraud for travel expenses" and you will instantly get old news hits from '09 and '08 and more besides, for various fraud cases. I am sure that a more carefully worded search would turn up even more. So, these officers are not being singled out because they are women, rather they are female officers who have singled themselves out by larcenous behavior.
Though, I am not happy about anyone's misfortunes, I am proud to say that at least crimes committed by military officers are rare enough that they still cause a sensation. I hope we never get to the point where that isn't the case.
Humorous intent sexist joke alert: Wait. Women are now part of the "silent" service? If only it were true!
I just have to say that I'm glad that I'm retired and don't have to put up with this "new navy" bullshit anymore. The fraud that these "OFFICERS" did will impact the enlisted ranks as usual before it effects the officer ranks.Great leadership examples.
II'm sure someone else has said this, but that is NOT an American submarine. Great fail CNN; that's why we don't trust your reporting.
"The three officers were among a group of 24 women who were the first to be assigned to U.S. submarines"
Reading comprehension FAIL.
Hey Kiddo – Andrew's saying that the submarine pictured is not an American submarine.
Reading comprehension FAIL to you!
hahahahaha
He was referring to the photo...
Leading the way, huh, ladies?
I wasn't sure myself, thought maybe it was a new one. 'Tis Russian isn't it?
Looks like a Rooskie sub to me....definitely not American...no sail....
Andrew, you are absolutely right, that is not an American Submarine. I served 20 years in the Silent Service, I noticed that first thing. It's a British Submarine, probably in a Canadian port, those are Canadian ships in the background it seems.
It's the HMS Astute in Norfolk for sea trials off the US coast. You can find it all over the internet.
I wonder if they are any good at polishing torpedos.
Oh and one more thing to the Navy guy that was complaining that women didn't have to run the 1.5 mile in the same time he did... All Soldiers in the Army had a 2 mile run, and though the females didn't have to run it as fast as us men, I bet most of the Women in the Army could outrun the men in the Navy... Ya'll didn't have to work as hard as us in the Army and you got paid as much or more... same thing with the Airforce.... In short, if you want to call something unfair you should expect to hear another side of the story... you could call people getting paid the same in the Navy as they do in the Army unfair too since Navy folks don't do anything but train and you get paid even though you rarely get used... and personally i'd rather have an Army Female with me in combat than a Navy Man...
Tell your B.S. to some civilian....I know better...I have been on 7 different ships....13 WestPacs....and sat off the coast of Lebanon and Kuwait....and Iran....all the time working 18 hour shifts...365....no liberty ports.....no women.....I bet you had it rough
I was in the Army if you didn't pick up on that Seaman... I was actually in a warzone getting shot at in Iraq. I served a year in combat... solid.. 365.... not safely off the coast sitting in a boat... See you actually get shot at when you're in the Army and deployed... you get mortar fire and rockets raining down... IED's etc. That's what i'm pointing out, Women in the Army went through the same crap I did over there and they did it well, and again, I'll take a Female in the Army that served in REAL combat over a Navy Seaman that stared at a screen for 18 hours a day.... There's a big difference.
You don't have a clue what you are talking about, do you?
CWA – who you talking to? who are you saying that to?
Who are you kidding. My wife is in the Navy. Just got back from Balad Iraq last June in support of Army Special Forces. Get a clue dude.
drathbon44 – forgive me for generalizing but i was making a point... the guy i'm arguing with here says that women in the Navy do not stack up to men and it's unfair that they get paid the same even though in his eyes they don't have to do the same stuff.... I understand that there are a select number of Navy folks that end up in ground missions for the Army and Marines, but the majority, especially submariners don't ever end up in a warzone like Iraq... and sitting off the coast of a warzone does not count....
What country you support? Your own?
Give the Corpsman their due brother. They are the medics to the Marines sir, who are at the least the equal of army soldiers. No offense intended sir.
David. Not just corpsman bro. Sailors all over the fleet bust their asses from SEALs to Divers, CBs to rescue swimmers. Doing $hi7 most of people wouldnt dare. Guys like clinton are idiots who probably were never even active duty, and if they were, shouldnt have been.
Fhjeu – really? Your argument is basically that a few members of the Navy do what The Army does, therefor the Navy is as important as the Army... Sorry to burst your bubble dude but everyone in the Army is doing the job that's needed to win these wars not just select groups and select jobs.... Seriously just stfu.
@CLINTON Marines are Navy. Navy provides many combat MOSs. Not just on boats.
Your screen name negates any credibility you may think you have.
Axl – How's that? My first name is Clinton. Are you referring to President Bill Clinton? ... not everything is about politicians you know?
Says the guy who names himself after one of rocks biggest douchebags.
Clinton. To start off, your kind of an idiot. Okay now that we have that cleared up, ive been Navy for 14 years. Ive been to the horn of africa, iraq, afghanistan, bosnia, and a bunch of other crappy places, getting shot at. Navy dudes do hard work, and i would argue a lot more than the army dudes we saw hanging at their bases for weeks on end before actually getting outside the wire. Not impressed. Dont get me wrong, lot of good soldiers out there. But the few good are carrying the weight of the many lazy. Oh and by the way, army's new pt test is 1.5 mile run.
Hey Fhjeu, first off you're kind of a Pu##y and so are the majority of Navy Seaman... The Army and Marines have carried the load of the 2 Major conflicts this decade and yes there were a select number of Navy and Airforce folks that helped and were on the ground but I work with the Navy now that i'm out of the Service and i can tell you most of them are a bunch of nerds that spend the majority of their time in training... and when they deploy they sit in a ship safely off the coast not doing crap... so don't give me that bull!@#$ that Navy had it harder than we did. Most of you never stepped foot in Iraq or Afghanistan... As far as the people you're talking about that were mostly assigned to stay inside the bases in Iraq and afghanistan, they're still getting mortar fire and rocket fire... Unlike your bro's hanging back in the states doing jack and SH#t for the country... So don't talk to me about the Army not doing crap... the Navy has hardly been worth keeping around since WW2... you're just transport for REAL Soldiers.
Hey I think its funny that you sit here and bash the Navy, the Navy has its mission and no other branch can replace that. Whereas the Army is easily replaceable and not nearly as important. The Marines do everything important. The only way anyone in the Army can brag is if they were attached to SOCOM.
In reality the Marines do all the work, while the Army comes out afterwards and twiddles there thumbs and clean up the Marines destruction
Fred, you're obviously absolutely stupid.. The Army is the most important branch of service. They are the only way wars are won. You honestly think the Army could be replaced? You have no idea the technical aspects of being a Soldier. For every Infantry man in the Army there's at least 4 soldiers in a support roll... We have the most advanced weaponry and the most members... The Marines are more specialized... the Navy is support and the Airforce is too, you can't win a war unless you have men and women on the ground holding the territory... That's what war is... You don't sound like you've ever been in any branch of the service so why don't you shut the !@#$ up?
Fred – and to your hilariously innacurate comments about the Marines... The marines are a very small contingent compared to the Army, they did NOT go into Iraq first, that was the Army buddy, the Marines are the bastard stepchild of the Navy and every now and again they get to take on big missions... I have respect for them, but they are not called on more than we are. We're the lifeblood of the US Military.... We're the body.
Hey buddy take a look at the National Security strategy that we are going to be implementing, it includes better intelligence, more drones, more Special forces. With that said they will be downsizing the troop heavy Army, for good reason. The same goes to the Navy, which mission is turning into a humanitarian one. Your probably one of those Army guys that posted on facebook everyday right? Brag about being in theater and you never even left the wire.
Are you one of those guys who claims they have PTSD, and never really left the wire? Do you rip off the VA?
I the issue is that when the PT standards were last revised we were told that it was minimum required for job funcitons – mostly for DC teams. If you wnat to look at a difference in requirements it is not the swim / run but the pushups which is what always bothered me.
They get the chance and then screw it up!
I am glad I got out before women began serving in the submarine force. Trust a woman to carry me through a hatch? Fight a fire for 30 minutes in an FFE? LOL! No thanks.
But a woman was obviously good enough to carry your ungrateful narrow viewed azz for nine months, then "let you come into the world" and lugged you around and cared for you till you could go it alone. Enough of you seemed to have survived the most vulnerable parts of your lives thanks to a woman in fact...
But he has a valid point. If you're not strong enough to carry a fellow sailor to safety, you don't belong on a ship, man or woman.
Being pregnant has what to due w/ carrying someone out of a smoke-filled space, or lugging a pipe patching kit down 3 decks???
Lets make them secret service agents since a CNN Opinion columnist yesterday suggested that women were above reproach by virtue of gender alone.
I am surprised that nobody on the right has blamed Obama for this yet.
No need, we already knew it was Obama's fault...
They cant blame men can they?
I'm surprised democrats haven't blamed Bush, heck or even Romney since the demtards want to link them together.
'demtards' is the best you can come up with? Yeah, keep cutting funding for education so the ultra rich can have another tax cut. I can see it hasn't harmed you at all.
Okay, with regards to the posts below... I am not going to argue that men and women are equal phsyically, I was in the Army, i know that isn't true... but before you condemn them for this, let me tell you a story about a fellow female soldier i deployed with to Iraq in 2003.... So she was a supply SGT and headed to an outpost to supply a small unit on the outskirts of Mosul when her vehicle was hit with an IED followed by small arms fire, her driver was killed by the IED and she got hit with shrapnel in her Arm... instead of lying there waiting for rescue or taking cover... she took her rifle, climbed over her dead driver and returned fire, killing two insurgents... One of the more brave things i've even heard of while i was in Iraq... She was awarded the Bronze star with Valor... So before you discount what a Woman can do in the military... try to recognize that some serve honorably and with amazing courage.
I agree – it is the individual human, not male or female. There are plenty men serving who have NO integrity or honor as well. Consider all the rapes – even if someone does not want to believe some women, no reasonable person could be delusional enough to believe that NONE of the rapes occurred, therefore, the male soldiers are scum and do not exemplify the honor of the military code.
Tiag, it's not just rape or whatever, there was plenty of dirtbag male soldiers in the Army... as there are in the Navy... Airforce, Marines etc... It does come down to the individual... I knew male soldiers in the Army that weren't worth the uniform they were wearing... they didn't work hard they didn't pull their duty properly or they were just flat out stupid... I saw women in the same boat.... it's not Gender it's who the person is... yes there are physical differences between men and women and there's stuff they just can't do as well as a man... but when it comes down to it... there's plenty they can do and do them as well as any man...
The issue of women on submarines has little to do with any argument for or against such things as this fraud. The underlying issue is whether they will make the deployments. While not pervasive, it's not unheard of for women to offer services while underway. These low scruples also can contribute to things such as the fraudulent claims. Poor b***ards on the boats will now face the same problem that is common in the surface fleet, namely that pregnancy lowers the number of personnel onboard. In a mission critical environment, this is intolerable as every person is necessary. The loss of one person due to leaving on shore & unable to request a replacement will be devastating. The ones on the boat are feeling the loss & could probably care less if the charges are true.
false claims of rape have become pretty common in the military now
i've seen a couple of cases firsthand- and no i was in no way involved or accused
If you want to put females in non traditional roles, put them on Diego Garcia, the US Navy Boys Club. No women allowed, I heard of a C-130 that had a female crewman that landed there and they made them park at the end of the strip and put armed guards around it.
they put armed guards around her so she wouldn't get raped by the donkey raping nigga's that live there...
Really? Out of all the things you could say, this is the best you've got? I'm actually amazed that you possess enough intelligence to type that garbage out. I hope your didn't get finger paint all over your keyboard. Why don't you go get a snack and let the adults type for a while? Okay? Maybe it's time for a nap?
That claim about not having females in Diego Garcia is untrue, I have been there and seen plenty of females on that base, at the NEX, barber shop, Package store, and even when they got off the boat... now an ATM i think that's a different story!
i was stationed there..plenty of women...had a ball....
When I joined the Navy in 1973 I was told that I could not have long hair because machinery would catch my hair and cause an accident...Women came along and they did not have to have short hair...I was told to move P250 pumps up 3 decks by myself....it took 3 women to do the same thing...I was told that when I was tired or sick to keep working....women got to rest when they had their periods....I was told to run a mile and a half under a certain time.....women got alot more time....I was told that if I did alot of sea time I would get promoted first....women got promoted without even being at sea....The point is that women are not held to the same standard as men when serving in the U.S. Navy....And now that I am a civilian after 25 years.....the same thing holds true out here.....go figure.
I agree with everything you said. And you can blame the liars of government for saying otherwise. I used to support local, state, and federal government 100%. No more. I'm tired of their lies and I'm tired of watching those liars manipulate the public.
Same thing held true in the Air Force. I went active in 74 and saw a steady decline in the service with regard to equal work for equal pay until the day I retired in 94.
I want to thank you for speaking our for me. As a male in the US, I feel constantly threatened by women. It is not fair. History shows a non-stop onslaught by women on men in the US. We have had over 200 years to stop it, and yet it continues. Who will end it, and when? We need more males in power in the US, and we need more laws protecting males. Those are the only answers.
Hair was/is cut short to look professional and allow for little maintenance, and women also were and are required to wear their hair short or in a bun... also, perhaps those things were true for women back in the 70s, but things have changed and women don't get to "rest" during their periods. Men are expected to run a mile and a half at a slightly faster pace due to their body structure, and are allowed a larger waist measurement because of this difference as well.
I heard that B.S. for 25 years.....try to tell me it is equal.....for equal pay...
KPT – Tell me it's equal work for equal pay when a Navy Seaman like yourself only has to run 1.5 miles and every Army Soldier had to run 2? Is it equal work for equal pay when Seaman like yourself sat safely in ships off the coast of warzones while we in the Army did all the actual fighting? Is that fair? Where's the fairness when Navy Seaman spend the majority of their career training and not ever in any real combat danger and get the same or more pay than a Soldier that gets put on repeated turnstyle deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan for a year or more at a time... where's the fairness in that Navy Seaman? The same argument you just made, could be used against your entire branch of the military, you should not have been paid as much as people in the Army because you didn't have to work as hard.
This story isn't sexy at all!!
Your credibility would come up a little if you would show a photo of a U.S. submarine. the one you have pictured for the article is a Russian submarine. Are you not even aware of what ours look like?
Actually this is the HMS Astute (United Kingdom) at Norfolk during sea trials off the US Coast.
http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/News-and-Events/Latest-News/2011/December/07/111207-US-Astute-Norfolk
I think its actually a British Astute-Class.
Snotty beat me to it 🙂
I did not notice it, but I would expect the reporter to do due dilligence and research. So pretty much anything they say in this story just down the drain.
I see it's Misogynist's Day, here on CNN.
BJ – just like how it doesn't make sense to generalize about 3 female sailors representing the rest through falsifying expense reports... it makes just as little sense to say everyone here is a mysoginist. There's a lot of idiots that post on CNN... they tend to have extreme views that nobody would listen to in person so they come on here to preach their stupid ideas... It's pretty sad really... the number of idiots that clamor to this site to post their extreme rhetoric... but please remember it's only a very small sample of the actual opinion of the people of the US... most here are just dumb
Glad to see that someone else thinks that a lot of idiots post here. I also want to add that submariners are run through extensive background checks and this is unusual. I also want to state that I don't think women should be on subs. I am speaking from experience spending long months underwater punching holes in the ocean. There is a lot of stress being underway and women will just add to that stress. Sorry, but I'm speaking of human nature. The Navy can say what they want to believe or should I say what they want you to believe, but human nature is just that. Men will compete for female attention, even if it is not sexual. I was on 2 of the first few ships to have women sailors. They did their work just fine, but sex acts did happen underway. Standing the roving watch, I witnessed it on several occassions. The Navy could not publicize it, because it went against the experiment. Both women officers and enlisted were caught in the act.
Oh, not everyone, of course. But enough.
For more insight in military ongoings and the Middle East read the novel - king of Bat'ha - and the sequel due out by summer 2012 -- Tales from the East: Return of Ivanhoe.
Don't ask, don't tell baby! Are they hot?
That is an oxymoron if I've ever heard one. Women serving in the "Silent Service" I know no woman that is ever silent.
I'm guessing you've never met one. Must be your charming personality.
Q: What's long, hard, and full of seamen? A: A submarine.
What's little and floppy and can't be seen without a microscope? You.
Judas Priest were hacks and metal is for Neanderthals.
Were they selling the good stuff while on the sub?
Could make a smal forune if it ain't rotten.
Just so you know. There ain't exactly any place you can hide on a submarine. Your entire universe is a little under 500' long, 30' wide and three decks high. Plus all the women are officers, so they are in the officers' berthing, which is off limits to guys like me who were raghats.
Where has CNN been? This story was reported in our local paper over 3 weeks ago.
It's hard to type with their thumbs up their butts.
In denial.
If these two are doing it I am just curious what Congress does on their little trips around the world. Is it public knowledge their expense accounts? Why not? Can you imagine how long this has been going on within our government. Just think of the billions unaccounted for from Iraq and Afghanistan but yet, two female Officers are busted (rightly so) within days, weeks, of their accounts being submitted. It just doesn't seem like the same bean counters are working for the same team. There's the rub, why do some people get away with it while others will suffer dearly for a pittance. Shame, what a shame.
Natch. That's why some posters here suspect an agenda may be involved.
I can't believe you insult anyone else around here when you actually think "natch" is an acceptable abbreviation. Get an education and stop writing like 12 year old California girl.
Time to hear it again? Nobody's perfect. Everybody makes mistakes. And the one that works the best: I accept full responsibility for my conduct. Women in the military, homosexuals in the military. In a combat situation I would tremble if I had to depend and rely on either. But this is the new age, I guess I belong in the old age.
no, u r just retarted
Retarted? Is that when you were a tart once and you had to be retarted? Tarts sound yummy!!!!
does not change the underlying reality.
Retarted is when you put a Pop Tart back in the toaster.
funny isn't it? .. perhaps the typo is actually funnier and say a lot more about how men who are afraid of women really aren't much of men anyway
*retarded
yeah .. I saw the typo after clicking submit .. I guess the message remains unchanged, but it sure sounds funny
well I'm so glad to see Negroes are finally off your list.
...
They are off your list, aren't they?
can they swim?
eroteme
Women and homosexuals have been serving in most of the worlds armed forces for decades, on the front lines as well...just because you're a homphobic misogynist doesn't mean these people are neither qualified nor entitled to serve the nation as they see fit.
Seriously jkoppil, you belong back in the hole you crawled out of. Are you serious???
I would rely on you to hand me toilet paper. What a fool!!!
Doh! it was erotreme that my rath was directed. You – I'd serve with anywhere.
@eroteme – you served with homosexuals – you just didn't know it. isn't ignorance bliss??
You probably have relied on a gay man and been helped by him without even realizing it.
Here is one more proof that women are more fraudulent than men and should never be trusted.
How quick you are to judge! You are sexist and your grammar skills are atrocious, so you are far from perfect. That means you have absolutely no room to judge anyone. So, the next time you decide to judge anyone, take a long, hard look in the mirror. The reflection you see should force you to reconsider.
u know, the fact u have a very little dick and can't get laid because u r unable to be a real man, does not mean that every one as the same kind of confidence issue u do. If u knew what a woman really is, but u don't, u'd just get laid and not waste time stating how superior u must be .. while u really aren't
Are you freaking kidding with this post? Please tell me this is some kind of joke. Like when somebody tries to look juvenile by writing a letter backward or writes with their opposite hand to make it appear as if it was written by a child or their pet. I hope this is a joke for your sake. If not, I suspect your parents are disappointed in you. Stay off this message board and crack a book for crying out loud.
does not change the substance ...
My husband works on a government site. They recently fired/prosecuted several people for doing exactly what these people did - basically, padding their expenses and defrauding the taxpayer. All of those people were male.
shouldn't you be making him a sammich instead of messing around on the internet?
sorry to burst ur bubbla but the government already dos that to tax payers they jus mad these people got em first.
wow dhondi no need to freak out and hell her that you should be making stuff. just because she is smarter than you and is a woman.
I have been in the military for many years. Men and Women both have faults. And one not more then the other. I think that no matter what the job is allow both to try. And the Military should make sure that women and men both are not raped or any harm come to the soldiers for any reason. I have met women that I trust with my life and I would rather have them backing me up then most of the men I have met. All and all i think we have put up walls and do not want to knock them down. just because they are women does not mean they are weak. No man SF or not can do the job alone thats why they are part of a team. This is just another nail in the coffin to say women couldnt cut it... Thats Crap
What did your post have to do with the article? They are being investigated for fraud. And if you'd prefer a woman backing you THAN a man THEN you need a sit down with a psych.
I guess the Nazis who died at the hands of female Soviet soldiers and fighter pilots must have been real pussies, then.
What "The War Criminal..." said.
Dave, quite bluntly, your village is calling. It misses its idiot.
You have to wonder who gave this information to the press.
Nothing has been proved yet, and padding your expense account isn't usually a national news story.
Between this and the big "expose" about the Secret Service agents in Columbia, it seems that the need to constantly produce "news" is getting to the point where they will start asking for people to spy on their neighbors.
CNN – you should be ashamed! I thought only Faux News put out this kind of nonsense!
As if we all don't know that a cell phone clip of the people next door doing something funny or illegal or odd won't make it to CNN's front page.
If anyone in this room is honored to be able to call them selves (SS) carry on, for those of you who have NEVER served on board a SUBMARINE.. SHut your Pie Holes....
How very un-American of you.
SS – you mean like the Nazis? Yes it is true, America is a country built on fascism. (I do admire the way it has been hidden in democracy though, Hitler was one of the best and even he couldn't have pulled that off). All of your servicemen could proudly boast a swastika and a death's head! ZEIG!
Fitting name for someone with a vacant head.
Oh please! You're sooo special because you bought into the post 9-11 "hero worship" of just ANYONE who served in the military!
From one vet to another (I assume YOU served): we both know how many clowns, crooks and thugs we served alongside who tarnished the aura of serving your country!
And I for one do NOT like this patronizing government lead "hero" tag thrown onto all of us like a wet blanket to try and make us feel "better" since we're getting shafted once we come home.
Get over yourself.
Thank you! It's time someone said that!
Sorry darlin', but you ain't special.
I served in the Corps 64-68. Never have I thought of myself as a hero. As a matter of fact I am sometimes ashamed of myself for having served with the way the punks and jerk***s talk on these blogs. AND I bet you were a cook on the sub. By the way, that pie hole comment is a giveaway and so very childish.
I would have to assume that you put up with a lot of shit when you came home.
No General, not really. The hippies were only outspoken when they were in a large group. Never face to face one on one.
I'm glad I got out before they let women on subs. It'll be a cold day in hell before I trust a female on my boat. Let alone one wearing khaki. Hell you can't even smoke underway anymore. Kinder Gentler Navy my ass....
Let's have more women – women everywhere. Then the US Navy can become a "Global FARCE for good" as in forever.
We should let women do all the fighting. They are so good at it. That will help with the population issue also. No men arround....well you know.
I can't resist to think of a submarine filled with sailors, just waiting to finally have a few females on board, going ape when they are told that the females won't make it.
On a serious note: I hope this does not affect the issue of women on submarines, as it really has nothing to do with it.
Every sailor should have their own piece on those long voyages. What harm could it do?
To the "pieces" that reject you, and then you subsequently rape? Gee, no harm at all, from your standpoint.
So padding the expense account is not just for civilians, eh? This headline could have read 'Submariners investigated for falsified expense reports' and nobody would have clicked on it. Makes you wonder what else they falsified: "Sorry, did I forget to report that I had a penis?"
two bubbleheads busted. No surprise.
Being a former Bubble head with 32months added up under water...I have no clue what you mean by that.
The article had nothing to do with Submarines it was just the job the Officers had before they were acccused of this fraud. Misleading headline!
Why is everyone turning this into an argument about whether women should serve on subs or whether the women in this article have been set up? .......... why does everyone jump to stupid conclusions that there's no evidence of? The article is what it is... Sounds like 3 women misrepresented their expenses in an expense report... they're being investigated for that... It may be true, or they may be cleared... For those thinking this is a conspiracy to keep women off of Subs... please tell me how that's going to work? You think the Navy is going to ban women from subs because 3 women falsified expense reports? That doesn't have anything to do with women serving on subs idiots... they could have done that on ANY Government sponsored travel or training... And to those saying this means they shouldn't let women on subs... your stupid too... Thousands of Men have falsified their expense reports too.. It happens... people try to get away with crap... it happens in the corporate world and it happens in the Government... Geeze.. people make stupid assumptions it's like listening to a 5th grade class... grow up.
Oh, ok, thanks for the tip.
CNN readers. Legends in their own minds.
Sounds to me like these girls were sexually harassed or raped, and spoke up about it. Hence, they get investigated. How much you wanna bet?
Everything you've got!
Or they just did something wrong potentially and are being investigated for it. It's not unusual since they have TS clearances.
That was my first reaction. It's a male society.
If we hear any word of them being potentially insane, we'll know for sure that they were raped. Probably several times. Yea US Armed Forces! Such an honorable lot!
Looks like they didn't take the "silent" part of "silent service" seriously enough.
Probably legit expenses. The fairer sex is higher maintenance. Not a sexist statement, just an observed reality over our 35 year marriage.
An apartment cost the same if you are male or female.
True, apartments cost the same for a man or woman...but every real estate agent knows woman are more likely to chose more expensive housing...
And irrelevant considering the topic is the reality of cost, not preference.
fraud is more likely to occur with more expensive housing...and people are driven to fraud because they want to live beyond their means...especially women...
That is the biggest stretch I’ve seen all day. Nice try though.
Then there is make-up hair and nails every, every, every month. Oh diet foods and clothes too. You are obviously not married.
I am important. My blogs are read by many. This is how CNN bloggers see themselves. Glad they're contained to their PC's.
rz
Pot meet kettle.
The comments alone posted here confirm what I have always felt about military personnel and why I couldn't care less about them.
you're a dick
@Jack – Can we meet? I would like to introducve you to a few friends. Bring a pork chop and a length of chain. You must be one of those poor little kids who always got picked last in Gym.
Whats the matter? Can't beat him up all by yourself?
Jack off, jack. You're a punk.
You're welcome.
Who cares about your silly prejudices?
Apparently you do.
jack. you need a good ass whipping. In fact, I imagine that's exactly what happened to you buy a guy in uniform. I bet you're one of those namby pamby looking anarchist types.
And I'll bet you beat women and kick dogs.
useless comment
Yer my hero Jack.
You don't deserve to breath the same air as our WWII veterans. Guess you'd feel better right now if they let Hitler take over?
Oh, yes – "we" defeated Hitler all by ourselves. 20 million dead Russians had nothing to do with it.
No one said we did it alone.
You're welcome for the ability to speak freely since my military service has helped to provide it to you. Now, please leave your address on here for all so we may personally convey our displeasure with your inane comments.
Leave yours first. Also, I owe you shit.
Joe you are mistaken. The U.S. has not been under direct threat of invasion or destruction in your life time. Your service though appreciated has had little to nothing to do with what happens in the states. But telling yourself otherwise makes you feel important…right? And your threat over a right (free speech) that you claim to have protected just makes you sound like a juvenile hypocrite.
If it weren't for the military you be speaking German to whatever Nazi chose you for his sex toy. You would obviously be of no real use to them.
That comment was meant for Jack.
Stay on the porch with the baby girls and puppies. There are still a few big dogs out there that will protect you from things that go bump in the nite.
Typical women! Never trust them with a credit card!
Typical douchebag! Never trust 'em with a keyboard.
CNN readers are a bunch of sissy bitch aholes.
I must be a new one as this is the first article I have read here. You however sound like an old timer here....so as you read and comment....look in the mirror and fix your lipstick it got smeared trying to kiss your own a$$.
Man, I would love to really discuss your issues more deeply. ...as a bubblehead , I need a good laugh.
1. This was reported weeks ago by Navy Times. Zero points.
2. This has nothing to do with the issue, Women On Submarines.
3. That's the British submarine ASTUTE seen at Norfolk Naval Base last winter, not a U.S. sub.
Things like this happen all the time in the military, so why is it national news? Did you know that smart cars in Canada get twice as much gas mileage as in the us, or that Lincoln was assasinated because he wanted to get rid of the Federal Reserve, or that Tom meyers invented a car that could run on water, or that Nikoli Tesla created free energy, that's freakin news, all war is deception the media distracts us from what is important and matters,
You are an idiot. I say this mostly because of your free energy comment. If it is true make yourself a tesla coil and see if you can power your house with it. Or, even buy one if you do not know how to make one. It should be worth the expense if it gives you free energy right?
Regarding your smart car mileage thing - Canada has access to the diesel version - and (if you are comparing advertised/posted fuel efficiency ratings) the Canadian gallon is bigger than the US gallon. I had that explained to me by a laughing dealer when I told him that I wanted the Canadian version of the vehicle I was buying– ;D
Well put! Equating this event with the issue of women on subs is a red herring.
This is what happens when you let blogs and "i-reporters" substitute for actual journalism.
You get zero points for your post-the article neve said the sub in the photo was in our Navy-get over that fact
If women cheat on land, then how can you trust them in a sub?-get over that fact
And so what is the story did not take place seconds ago-get over it--
KUDOS Chris – well put!
Shouldn't have splittails onboard anyway!!!
Nor morons of your low calibre.
I correct myself. They don't have "splittails" on board, or "dames", or "broads", or "chicks", or "hoes", or "beavers", or "lil dumplings", or any other bigoted epithet you choose to throw out.
What they have on board are officers of the United States Navy.
You, genius, will never make that cut.
In regards to the comments about women not belonging in the military and not being physically capable....question: What about the Grace Hoppers of our country?
These charges seem bogus to smear the first women submariners...it just seems too obvious. 3 out of 24 women would hardly risk the opportunity by claiming extra expenses. It seems like a smear campaign by the Navy.
No, there's no way this is a smear campaign. People try and get over on their travel documents all the time, trying to squeeze out every penny they can. These are still relatively junior officers who tried to cheat the system – happens all the time, only reason it's on cnn is because of the sensitivity of the issue of women on subs.
Your absolutely right, this happened with that female B-52 officer years ago, they didn't want her in the ranks
You're wrong Mike and if you understood statistics and probability, you'd see why. How many women in the ranks? Men? 3 women commit this crime and it is on the front page of CNN, while 1000's of men commit the same crime and it gets overlooked or under-reported. The only difference is gender. And it is no coincidence that the old white cronies running thins in the Navy are looking for ANY opportunity to smear women in the ranks. Just read the comments on this forum. It is filled with misogynistic inbred morons attempting to degrade and belittle women.
Agree. Something mighty fishy about this.
I wonder when CNN will wonder whether this problem could have been avoided if "only men submariner were hired" or whether "women are just stupid"?
(if you don't know what I am referring to, these are two REAL articles published recently by CNN (with the genders reversed, obviously) in an attempt to denigrate men, in the aftermath of the recent h00ker scandal)
of course not. equal rights don't matter when it comes to white men
What a racist and sexist statement.
theThinker, I suspect it's an ironic observation of the way bigotry is treated by the mass media in our country: that no minority could be bigoted, and any attack or slander on a white male is allowable. As Exhibit A, I present CNN's own early reporting of the Trayvon Martin shooting, which characterized the shooter as white, then later, as a "white Hispanic" to justify the vilification of them in the articles.
I can't believe they would torpedo their careers over something so small
@Tom
@Mlkingr
Well said.
@ TheThinker
Of course he is a racist and sexist. Now had he been female or black he would be justified ..right?
Being a x-boat sailor, I would have LOVED the opportunity to share the tight quarters with a few female 'Zero's' a 6 month float makes a man do stupid things.
I'm sure you do stupid things ashore as well.
I would do you again. Now that is stupid.
have you seen some of those that you said you wanted to share it with?? i would have chewed my own arm off getting away.
Those stupid things are why the Navy has kept women off of submarines for so long.
As for stupid ashore: Tailhook, anyone?
They are going DOWN!
How amazingly clever of you.
@JP – How many years did you serve in the Coast Guard?
Number 1 if your join the infantry your going to be shot at, if you join the navy your going to sea, if your a woman joining the ranks of men there is a high possibility of something bad happening. It's not ignorance or sarcasm it's the truth and it's REAL. Don't act like we live in some utopian society where everything will work out with training and educationing males. Number 2 (most) men are stronger and faster then women period, built for certain aspects of war. IT"S MEN testosterone filled men to do bad things to the enemy. Number 3, Women if you want to have the oppurtunity to do everything that men do in the military then make the physical assement standards the exact same as the men. Why don't I hear any complaining about that? Any person, man or woman, who is trained to do a specific job should be physically cable of every aspect of that job. Personal experience has shown me differently.
don't use science and facts!!!
that's sexist!!!
In my experience as a Naval Officer, woman routinely do a fine job meeting all the necessary physical requirements for demanding jobs like flying combat aircraft. We had lots of women in our ranks, as pilots, aircrew and maintainers who did fine work ashore and at sea.
If you want a good example from the USAF, there have been only two air to air kills made by A-10 Warthogs in that aircraft's combat history. The first of these was by a female pilot. She noticed an Iraqi helo at low altitude and rolled in to make an attack with Sidewinder missiles. Because of the low altitude, the infrared seeker of the Sidewinder could not obtain a lock on the target so this pilot elected to go down in the weeds with the helo and engage with guns, meaning the big 7 barreled 30 mm gatling gun meant to take out armored vehicles. That helo must have been confetti afterwards! I personally would have loved to have seen that engagement.
So much for your mealy mouthed arguments against women serving in our military. The only person not fit to serve is you.
Because you say so it must be true...
It is just not true that women can do everything a man can do. That's not criticizing, just a fact. For example, men have to lift stock in factories if it exceeds a certain weight, yet their paid the same as the men. Women are generally smaller and weaker than men, I don't know what's wrong that make people think we all have to be equal in every aspect of our lives. We aren't. That doesn't make it bad, it's just nature.
True, women can serve as pilots, aircraft mainteners, infantry & other MOS's but special operations such as SEALs, Delta, USAF pararescue jumpers are still off-limits to women because of the physical rigors involved in training & in actual performance of those jobs. Even with men there is a high washout rate for elite units.
Sorry, but there have been two air to air kills by the A-10, both by men. The first was in Desert Storm, there were no female attack/fighter pilots at the time. The second kill was by a man also. But I agree, as an Army pilot, I have flown with females who are every bit as capable as male pilots. Just get your facts straight so that you don't lose your creditability.
In response to Cheese Wonton and to some of his respondents, I say the Armed Forces have done a surprisingly good job on letting women serve in capacities that they are capable of, by sticking strictly to physical requirements for a job.
I haven't seen anyone on here, including Cheese Wonton, say that women *must* be put in *every* position, including front-line infantry combat. What he said is, women that have met the requirements for a job have been performing on a par with men in the same job, and in some cases better. This is pretty much to be expected. Bell curves are present in any group of human beings.
The Navy has had enough history on female officers serving on board ships to determine that they may be able to integrate them into submarine crews as well. This is a pretty reasonable decision, and one based more on practicality than on politics.
Let me ask you all this. If a woman scores highly as a sharpshooter, well enough to qualify as a sniper, don't you want her out there in Kandahar picking off bad guys? Would you honestly want to keep her from doing a job that she is capable of, based on what she has (or hasn't) between her legs?
This is the same idiotic debate that has been going on over homosexuals serving. If they want to serve, if they are capable of serving both physically and psychologically, if they are not violating the UCMJ, because touching the no-no zone without permission IS a crime, then let them. There is no reasonable argument against letting someone serve to the best of their ability.
You've got your stories mixed up. The pilot's name was Bob Swain. What the female pilot did was –for the first and only time ever–land a damaged Warthog MANUALLY – something so impossible to do that they did not teach her how to do it. By the way, she was told to eject but she assured her 'wing man' that she could land the thing. She may not have cojones, but she had a pair of something!
Why waste a missle? Should have used the guns to begin with.
Because the 30mm cannon on an A-10 isn't really going to be your first choice for a dogfight. Hell, the A-10 isn't going to be your first choice for a dogfight. It's a dedicated strike aircraft. The only reason it had a chance to intercept was that it was shooting at an even slower helo.
You are talking about Navy Officers which I am one. All a Navy Officer has to do is think and give orders. No heavy lifting involved. So females can do the job just as good as males.
Don't think you would have lasted a day on my boat, Sir.
Your stateroom door would have been mine! yep I have hide a few stateroom doors in my career. Generally Officers that thought all they had to do was give orders. Nope you would not have found it. Even the Capt. thought it was funny. Yeah, I told him I did it and why.
So yo are a special Officer, Sir. Most worked as hard as the enlisted they led. Yep, that's how you lead, Sir.
Padding of expense accounts is widespread in both the military and civilian life. It doesn't make it right, the difference in the Navy is if someone has an axe to grind, e.g. someone resentful of female submariners, gay submariners, black submariners, a jealous ex-boyfriend or whomever, then all it takes is one call to NIS. Alot of time and money goes into training a nuke, let's not rush to judgment.
get over it and stop making excuses
look up the recent case of a marine colonel who disciplined a gay soldier for excessive PDA
he was forced to step down for a fair application of the rules. the fact that he disciplined 2 men kssing at port lead to his forced resignation
It's funny how hostile you sound. Obviously, you're afraid of gays and women...lol
I agree...it seems like a smear campaign, plain and simple.
You are wrong to say that claiming false travel expenses is acceptable. It is not acceptable to me as a civilian manager, and it should not be acceptable to a Naval Officer. I do not agree that fraud is the norm with civilian or military travel, rather, most people in my organization (Army) understand it will be dealt with rather harshly.
This is a valid point. Sub crews in general, and boomer crews in particular, are held to very strict standards because it is a very psychologically grueling job.
That said, it makes it that much easier for someone with an agenda to ruin their careers.
When I was young many years ago in the want ad section of any newspaper there were three columns for jobs. One column said "men", another column said "women", and one column was for "part time". And that worked fine for many decades before the equal rights crap came along.
Yes, that was just a dandy situation for women. Here are your choices: teacher, secretary, nurse, or mother. No other options available. No thank you.
The only reason it is in the paper is that the accused are women. If it were men it just would not mater.
Yeah, because who wants equal rights? Do you even think before you type?
Most female and minorities (and I stress MOST) who complain don’t want equal rights. The want affirmative action, lower standards for both physical and intellectual standards. If they don’t get it they cry racism / sexism. I am a left leaning moderate who fully supports equality and those who truly seek it. That just simply isn’t the case for most.
"When I was young many years ago ..."
It's painfully apparent, Sal. You don't have to tell us what we already know.
http://www.Hear-The-Truth.com
http://www.jesus-thinks-youre-a-jerk.com
The only thing I have to draw on with women working in close quarters with men is Sigourney Weaver’s superb performance in her “Alien” series. She was a very strong and resourceful character and her mothering instinct seemed to be an invaluable asset for all members of the various crews. Another observation :The early Greek generals were known to encourage intimacy between their troops hoping that their emotional ties for the other would translate into ferocity on the battlefield. Perhaps, if women were in foxholes or in submarines, this potent blend of the mothering instinct combined with the libidinous drives these female soldiers would develop as they take on mates, would impart them with the drive and determination of a “super soldier”, and make even Sigourney look wimpy.
I will defer, of course, to those with actual, feet-on-the-ground military experience.
Fascinating thought process you engage in here. I had to smile at the end disclaimer.
Sigourney Weaver can serve on my sub anytime. Some other women I know? Not so much . . .
They should have several mates in a lot of foxholes and become a super soldier with her own army. Kinda like a queen bee.
You do realize that was a movie, don't you?
Gives a new meaning to the term "going down."
She can go down on my sub if she wants
I understand she will not be deployed on small craft.
Congratulations. You are the 45th jackoff to use that joke on this thread. Give yourself a milkbone.
I am for equality in the military.
I'm sure the feminists will fight to make women register for the draft now.
Sexist that only men must register
I agree. Women should also have to register for the draft.
Why is this national news?
Because it's on CNN.
Why would it not be considered national news?
Because it happened in our nation maybe?
And it's new?
I'm so proud of these brave women forging new frontiers...of fraud, misrepresentation and furthering the image of woman as victim.
How does this further the image of women as victims? If true they committed a crime. I don't see how they're being victimized here.
When I'm ready for your opinion, I'll dictate it for you.
While the male soldiers are only going in and murdering civilians, including women and children, to further their reputation. Your stupid comments are so easy to take apart.....you are in over your head son.
I'm proud of you for surviving 50,000 years with nothing but your club and loincloth.
Oh. That's not a loincloth. My condolences.
Must be a slow news day. This is nothing more than a reprint of a story that is at least 6 months old. The fact that they were assigned to a sub is not germane. They would have been invetigated if they were assinged to shore duty.
Agree. These are two sailors who may have made a bad choice. The fact that they are female submariners has nothing to do with the case. Would the same national attention have been given if they were males? I doubt it.
They must have choked because of all the sea men
Congratulations. You are the 27th jackoff to use that joke on this thread. Your trailer park must be very proud of you.
I say let them serve on submarines. The male submariners will love to see they ladies panties hanging up on the clothes line and having those large bre***** pressed up against them in the tiny corridors. I wish I could go back into the military. What a great time to be a male sailor in the US Military. There's a chance for some fraternization at every turn!!
As though you'd have the slightest idea what to say to a woman.
Agreed – those tight submarine passegways will bring frotage to an entirely new level. Hope those sub gals don't mind strange hands and hips!!
I'm sure they don't. Some of them collect them, like ears.
The rest just use stun guns and mace.
Sure. Maybe this time you won't be the bitch for the entire trip.
Maybe.
Considering that the story had nothing to do with Submarines or even the fact they are women, I wonder at the headline. Two PEOPLE who are in the military padded their expense report. Yes they need to be investigated and disciplined, but the fact they are female submariners has NOTHING to do with the story.
Must be a slow news day. This is nothing more than a rehash of a news story that is at least 6 months old.
wow...that didn't take long for women to start causing problems. Better this than a bogus claim of rape while underway. GET OFF MY BOAT!!
No room for anyone but you and your ego in that dinghy anyway.
Putting women on submarines is a bad idea – irrelevant of this case. The problem is that women do not understand – or appreciate – how young men feel \ act in confined quarters in the presence of a woman. These young guys' hormones are on OVERDRIVE – in many cases having a woman around will only distract them from their duties. In the worst case women WILL get raped. In other cases the woman could play favorites and cause jealosy and disharmony amoung the crew. Believe me – putting young women in such close quarters with young men is playing with fire. Equality has nothing to do with it.
Your suggestion then is to deny women all access to their chosen career advancement because men can't control themselves?
ALaysa, I would have loved to do a 6 month float and watch you 'Cope'... 149 men and you.... You would have a lot of boy friends.... hell try doing 3 months on a "Boomer"..... Are you a Lesbian perhaps.. Oh wait that is ok now to. Fun to watch on " Half way night".... dive dive......
Yep
@ Alyssa – what I'm saying is that men and women are very different creatures, and to deny those basic, bioligic, natural and unchanging differences can sometimes lead to trouble. Would you encourage an attractive young lady to walk down an abandoned, unlit city street in the middle of the night, wearing a miniskirt, bellly shirt and high heels? I wouldn't, because she'd be taking a real risk of exciting some guy who doesn't have the degree of self control that you think he should have. Young guys think about s##x ALL THE TIME, but especially when there's a young lady in close proximity. I'm not saying women should have any less career opportunities than men, but I am saying that some putting women in some positions may be counterproductive for all involved.
MXD, yours is one of the most ridiculous uninformed statements in this thread which is rife with moronic misogynistic statements. As a submarine vet of 10 years, I can tell you that hormones are NOT in overdrive. Indeed, if anything they are suppressed. I recall this crap being argued when women on submarines was first being debated, and it was garbage then and garbage now. The fact is, submariners are not mindless hormone factories without impulse control. Submariners are the elite in the Navy, consummate professionals, and they will do their job professionally. To suggest otherwise is an insult to them and telling of the ignorance of the person making any argument otherwise.
So your saying a submariner would act differently when it comes to distractions by a female... I find that hard to believe, people...highly-elite and trained people, but the keyword is people. I'd argue the opposite... An highly fit, adrenaline enhanced (proven fact, military men are on average more adrenaline driven than the average, hence seeking a military career), super motivated, disciplined individual. Your comparing your average monkey to a gorilla and saying the monkey wins in self-control. (side not, gorilla are also highly disciplined within their groups, it doesn't mean they don't snap)
James Moon: you would ahve fit in just fine with those 149 MEN.... sounds like you enjoy a mans company. I did 13 patrols on missile boats and I know for a fact that the puddin was ALWAYS on our minds... Where you by chance on the "Operation Petty coat" sub?
Thanks Bubblehead, please go away now. Have a respectable conversation, but my post was already bound to be absorbed negatively, but thanks to you I look like the average pig.. Your input is no longer required, you've proven that your a horrible person.
Totally agree. Nothing toward women, or the possible rapist in their future, but the above post is 100% correct. This is not about equality, this is about service, and service on such a vessel cannot come with distractions. I'm 100% for women having their own sub, but a mixed sex sub is just going to lead to more of these problems. Can you see the headlines yet, "Man kills seamen over sea'women'", "Rape...Rape...Rape" (not condescending or saying it doesn't happen, I just agree with the above poster. 200 horny dudes on a sub and 2 girls... end result is not good), "Depressed seamen commits suicide over co-worker". Before you say it, yes these guys should be able to control themselves, but don't for a second think all that training and hard work is gonna matter in the "heat of the moment". We are just human, and humans are "dumb, stupid, panicking animals" x100 in a metal tube for month on end.
Dudus57- Have you ever been to Sea on a Submarine? Have you ever left your house for anything but for a gallon of milk? If you have NEVER served on a Submarine then I must ask you to leave and get into a "Recipe swapping forum". To all who wear the Fish, carry on.
Dudus57- I'm sorry. Do you need a hug?
Bubblehead,
They don't know we operated 6 on 12 off for 3 months straight. When ...unless you're a yoemen (just sayin') would you have time for a relationship. and 300 drills, real work, and etc. etc. AND it is an Officer!
Been on a ride for 3 days with a female. What a pain in the back that was. I suspect, there would probably be a few guys that could not control their pants but 90% of the bubbleheads just want to do their jobs, and come back home.
my opinion as a visitor of the deep for 11 years. 3 of which were under water.
MXD, have you ever even been on a submarine? Have you ever met with a submariner, or even any sailor, at all? As a DON civilian I've had the pleasure to observe our young sailors first hand, and none of these Hollywood or Talk Radio myths of incompetent women or rape gangs have basis in truth. In short, I'm calling your post "dross".
@ TheThinker – I have been friends with a few sailors, when I lived in San Diego and worked as a pipefitter in the NASSCO shipyard. These sailors were good guys, though most of them were in the Navy becuase they were caught dealing drugs, and the judge said it was either prison or the Service. I've also been on a sub – got a personal tour of the sub North Carolina from the Chief (my friend's dad served on the battleship namesake). Beautiful sub, but very cramped quarters. And maybe I'm projecting, but living in that environment for weeks or months with one or two women on board (who would no doub
@MXD- Did you fall and hit your head? Selling drugs? Navy or Jail.?Shame on you for telling lies in a pubic forum.... oops
public.
(who would – no doubt – become more attractive and, I'm guessing, popular as the cruise progressed) might be very distracting indeed.
That is a balant lie MDX. You cannot even get into the navy if you have too many traffic tickets. Maybe a long time ago...1960's early 70's but not anymore. Enven the Army and Marines are starting to get very serious about who they accept.
And if you want to play with the boys, then accept anything that goes with it! No rules or regulations are ever going to change human nature if you know what I mean.
pwstatz1121 and Art
It's probably because we have a b-b-b-b-black / Negroid baby-eating hijacking muslim rapist for president and you guys are clearly the wisest of the wise who believe all men are created equal and the women are all real lucky to have you two to tell them what they can and can't do and what they're really capable of.
Baby Eating? That's rather harsh, no?
You need to take your hate somewhere else. You're a sick person and probably dangerous. I hope you are soon banned from this site.
Either you're very cleverly using reverse sarcasm in realtion to what should clearly be recognized as sarcasm or you're really really stupid. For your (and everybody else's) I truely hope it's the former and not the latter.
Your mother! Racist southern confederate redneck!
How could you tell, was it my accent or my southern drawl. Obviously you're a predjudice yankee dog.
Obama's a rapist now? That's a new one.
JohnM, you are drinking way too much of that koolaid. Appears as though you have decided to Take a break from trying to think for your self .
Poor ignorant sheep
The capability of the women has nothing to do with it. Its the behavior of the young men which is the point. We want men that exhibit these behaviors to do our fighting. They have minimal if any higher education and no other options in life. Think about it. I dont think you need a sociology degree to get a grasp of the real issue. For your way of thinking we better only recruit college grads into the military. Better get rid of the all volunteer force because it will no longer work.
Surprise! Women can be worthless too! Get over it, this happens often enough to be considered a regular occurance. Doesn't matter whether it was a female or a male that committed the crime.
I am against women serving in the military, the police, and as firemen. This equal rights crap has gone too far. Jobs where strength is required should be the criteria for any job.
LOL. You're joking, right ? Are you serious ? Gotta be kidding, right ? C'mon, Sal . What 'strength' is required to sit at a SONAR or navigator's desk 12 hours/day, except maybe stong ass muscles.
You're a dinosaur. The earth will be a better place when you are dust and fossils.
you're a realist. the world will be a much better place in 10 years when we all realize that political correctness has run amok
Bet you're a real charmer with the ladies aren't you Sal?
Sal,I hate to break this to you.But being big,stupid and strong are only needed in football these days.
My job in the Air Force did not require a pair of balls to get supplies off the shelf and ship it to their proper destination. I do think that there are some high-strength required positions, that men are best equipped for but NO females in the military? Get with the century.
The article has nothing to do with sexual assault. You all must be setting around with your hands inyour pants playing pocket pool hopeing something will come of it.
I guess submarine pay and nuke bonus wasn't enough, they had to fudge their travel claims (must be Academy grads). That said, CNN strikes again. Photo is NOT a US Submarine. Looks like a Brit Astute class, but not US. Back to the archives, kids!
The ship you are showing is a Russian submarine not a U.S.
A submarine is called a boat, not a ship, idi0t
Bzzzt, you fail your ship recognition. Good thing you didn't stand any watches with me, lol. The boat depicted is a Royal Navy Astute Class SSN, their most recent class of nuclear attack sub.
Anyone with any experience would know there is no situation where a Russian sub would share a harbor with a pair of Ticonderoga Class cruisers. It has to be an allied sub, not Russian. D'oh!
good job on not including a picture of a US sub.
Captain Ramius would never have let this happen.
can't wait til the feminazis start commenting
"the only solution is to only allow women on submarines" yeah-doesn't make much sense. but neither does calling for the secret service to load their ranks w/ women because women have a better temperament. or calling for west point to have a top-down reorganization becuse 2 female cadets got drunk and claimed they were raped- 2 yrs after the alleged incidents took place
You are simply ignorant. Sad.
JFK was shot in part because at least nine of the secret servicemen assigned to protecting him has been up drinking until very early that morning (one was still up partying at 5:00am that morning). Adding more women to the group couldn't hurt
"Adding more women to the group couldn't hurt"
that's the problem w/ your argument. if you want equality, don't blame bad behavior on gender
if a response to this article was to have fewer women serve it would be sexist
you need to lose the double standard
"Adding more women to the group couldn't hurt"
that's the problem w/ your argument. if you want equality, don't blame bad behavior on gender
if a response to this article was to have fewer women serve in the navy it would be sexist
you need to lose the double standard
I see nothing wrong with these brave young women ripping off the system. (sarcasm)
& then they just couldn't "be silent" about it~~!! lol
& remember: "Lucy's Lips Sinks Ships" ~!! LOL..
i crack me up:)
I have said this for decades that it is a bad idea to put women on submarines and in front line ground combat. Not because they cant do the job but as soon as one gets raped, all hell will break lose. Instead of preventing potentail sexual assaults by not creating situations where it could happen, the new groovie, ask and tell mixed up military would rather use education and globalized one world tolerance techniques to control a young man's out of control hormones. Your new submarine should be named te USS Sexual Frustration.
So it's the WOMEN'S fault they are raped, not the MANS?
moron
nobody said it's the womens fault, but it does happen because they're there!
According to your logic all women should be in burkas right? To protect them from out of control men right? Perhaps Saudi Arabia is more to your tastes
There is already a signficant incidence of soldiers, mostly women, being sexually assaulted and raped by other soldiers. The probelm is not that "all hell will break loose" but that all hell hasn't broken loose already.
The typical story is that some woman either got drunk and made some poor decisions that she regretted the next day, or that she gets mad when she finds out the guys was just looking for sex. Very rarely is there an actual case of a innocent woman just walking home from bible study when she is viciously attacked by some soldier. Alcohol is almost always involved. Women need to smartin up and realize that going to the bar wearing their slutiest outfit and getting hammered, is not the safest thing to do. The guys at the bar are drunk as well, you don't see them screaming rape everytime they wake up next to a regret.
By that mentality, the concern should be with these "out of control" men. This is not a fraternity where outrageous exploits are encouraged; this is the US military. The men who work in close proximity with women on all of the surface ships have managed to control themselves, for the most part. Those who can’t are to be held accountable. This was the same argument that was used many moons ago when women first started serving on combat ships. It was bogus then and it’s bogus now. I’m afraid you think far less of our military men and women than you should. Shame on you.
Well said, Ma'am!
women do not need to be in combat!
You tell em' Chief .
Well said Chief
Your skimmer opinion is bilge water.
I agree with ET1. Skimmers love to run their mouths about things they know nothing about. Submarines are for men. Period.
Ignoring those whom are hardline Islamists in disguise.
There’s obviously some mistake here. Diversity is strength. The submarine force will be better and more reflective of society if we just admit females. I know it’s true because the Defense Advisory Committee on Women in the Services (DACOWITS) told me so and our CinC, who defers to DACOWITS on all defense matters, agreed. Women in Army and Marine infantry battalions is going to work out great, too. Never mind those pesky sexual assault allegations Panetta keeps saying he’s going to do something about.
So what does any of that have to do with two sailors committing fraud?
they're not sailors, they are OFFICERS!
Absolutely nothing. This has nothing to do with females or males, just an example of 2 commissioned officers attempt to abuse the system
I can bet you my paycheck that these officers pissed off the wrong CHIEF on that sub, whatever the situation was they were probably given enough rope to hang themselves while everybody waited for them to mess up, once the chance came up...they got fried, I'm sure if it would have been male officers or anybody else maybe a little ASS CHEWING but since they are trying to break ground here its a big deal