Panetta seeks probe of Marine SS flag
By CNN National Security Producer Jennifer Rizzo
The military's top brass went into damage control mode Friday after a picture of an elite Marine unit posing with a flag symbol that is similar to a Nazi "SS" logo surfaced on the Internet a day earlier.
First, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta asked the Marine Corps to look into the matter and take appropriate action, according to Pentagon spokesman George Little.
"Racist and anti-Semitic symbols have absolutely no place alongside the men and women of America's armed forces," Little said in a statement.
Then the Marine Corps Commandant, Gen. James Amos, weighed in, apologizing to "all offended by this regrettable incident."
"I want to be clear that the Marine Corps unequivocally does not condone the use of any such symbols to represent our units or Marines," Amos said.
Marine Corps Scout Snipers from the 1st Reconnaissance Battalion are seen in the photo standing and kneeling with their sniper rifles in front of a blue flag with white Nazi "SS" runes. The picture was taken in 2010 in Afghanistan and the photo's description says the "SS" flag had been "adopted and used by the Marines in reference to Scout Sniper."
The Military Religious Freedom Foundation was alerted to the photo by Marines who expressed their concern, said group founder Mikey Weinstein. MRFF then distributed it to news organizations.
The Marine Corps said it became aware of the photo last November and the local command investigated, but found it not to be racially motivated, according to a statement released by a Marine Corps spokesman, Lt. Col. Stewart Upton.
The unit's commander decided not to proceed with disciplinary action, it said, but all Marines in the unit were reminded that such behavior will not be tolerated and any further display could result in punishment.
"They determined that the Marines in the photo were ignorant of the connection of this symbol to the Holocaust and monumental atrocities associated with Nazi Germany," Amos said in his statement Friday.
The Marines involved were made to take a formal instructional class, however, so that they fully understood the historical use of the SS symbology, he said.
In Nazi Germany, SS stood for "Schutzstaffel," the elite paramilitary force of Adolf Hitler's party. SS units were frequently involved in war crimes, including the extermination of millions of Jews.
Weinstein said the Marines who spoke out were infuriated by the photo but were worried about reprisal from their chain of command.
In a letter to Amos, Weinstein's foundation asked that "everyone associated with the matter, including anyone who condoned it, be the subject of immediate and public court-martial proceedings."
A Jewish human rights group, which also called on the U.S. government to open a new investigation into the matter, said it received a call from Panetta's chief of staff, Jeremy Bash, informing them that the Secretary shares the groups concerns that this is a very serious matter.
"I feel reassured that Secretary Panetta himself has now taken charge of this matter," said founder and dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center, Rabbi Marvin Hier.
While the insignia has been unofficially used by Scout Snipers in the past, the Marine Corps said it is absolutely prohibited, the statement from Upton said.
"Certainly, the use of the "SS runes" is not acceptable and Scout Snipers have been addressed concerning this issue," the statement said. "'SS runes are prohibited from use as a symbol or any other use."
In Amos' statement Friday, the top Marine outlined the steps the service will take to make sure all Marines understand the Corps' position.
Amos directed commanders to investigate the prevalence of the use of SS or other unauthorized symbols within the reconnaissance and sniper communities and dispatched the Marine Corps' sergeant major to meet personally with every senior staff non-commissioned officer. He asked that the commanding general in charge of training and education review the current sniper school curriculum to ensure it contains prohibitions on the use of SS and other inappropriate symbols.
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To be honest, we all no that the sign is racist, that is undeniable, but if all of yo slow-mo's want to bring back hatred, from over 50 years ago, where the bulk of you were not there, fine by me. The only people who really should be concerned are the men who were directly affected by the SS, its not like its a random swastika or something. To be honest, SS or scout sniper, is able to show a bunch of similarities between the two. The Waffen-SS, like today's marines, were fast lethal, and brutally efficient at what they do, even if it is dealing death. Its not like the marines are randomly shouting raciall slur's at Jewish people on the streets, to be honest, a handful probably are Jewish themselves. Stop whining about the SS, its not a racial slur, its just associated with the Nazi version, to be honest it could stand for sneaky slidy, its just an acronym.
It's not the racial slur part that is the problem, it's the war crimes part that's problem.
The USMC is supposed to embody honor, courage and discipline. Killing women, children and elderly is the opposite – dishonorable, cowardly and undisciplined.
War crimes are a failure of discipline and leadership, and they are crimes.
To act like the martial spirit of the SS is not forever smeared and sullied in the scandal and failure of monumental, systematic genocide and other premeditated brutality and murder against civilians is to not get it.
http://www.rense.com/general81/how.htm
A good site kind of describing what is really going on here.
Wake up america.
The stylized "SS" symbol has been in use within the USMC Scout Sniper community for years. It is not a symbol of racial hatred or antisemitizam. The brand has been worn by many Marines who have earned the 8541 and now 0317 MOS, Black, Asian, Hispanic, White, Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Muslim etc. In addition it adorns almost every STA Platoon t-shirt. This is a witch hunt propagated by individuals who thrive and dredging up the past and associating it with GOOD MEN. Shame on you. Why don't you join the Boys Club and graduate a school with an 80% attrition rate before you judge.
Having served in the Marine Corps for 10 years as a Dog Handler in the MPs, I can assure anyone that there were and I'm sure are now garden variety racists and even hard-core white supremists. I'm white. I witnessed some first-hand and we got training on it. If for even one day any leader in the "sniper community" allowed and didn't snuff out such a travesty as the symbol of the Schutzstaffel to be associated with anything having to do with the Marine Corps then something has gone terribly wrong and the the entire house should be cleaned from top to bottom of such slime that would dishonor the USMC in this twisted way.
This is the problem with an all-volunteer force: drift in the society toward and away from military service is going to lead to un-American, un-democratic types to dangerously occupy the military. A democratic society needs all threads to be represented, so that you don't get all the guns in the wrong hands. Rome made the same series of mistakes we are making only we're making them faster. Toward the end you couldn't get a citizen with anything going for them anywhere near the Legions, they all bought there way out at first, then they professionalized the military, finally they left it to the poor, the provincials and foreign mercenaries to defend Rome. We're at the professionalization stage with the formation of a closed military culture, this is about when the Republic died and the Empire arose. The question becomes, who's guarding the guards?
The fact that Marines have been using this SS symbol for years shows how out of touch with military history and world history they really are. You would never see this in the Army.
And you're just as stupid as they look.
I just got off the horn with a buddy of mine who served when I did and still serves today, he is in my old Marine Unit. The things he tells me about the backstabbing going on stuns me! Apparently because of the Corps reduction everybody is more concerned about keeping their jobs than taking care of the basic Corps value of sticking their chest out for one another, all the way down to the NCO ranks. He told me he got charged for making a Marine dig a fighting hole because he was late several times and decided that was a better way to handle him than to write him up and burn him. It was "hazing". Oh my good god are you crapping me?! Thats not hazing thats called policing our own. Hazing is duct taping someone to a chair and soap partying him because he's new. Another example was, he was on the SDO one night and a restriction Marine failed to check in on time then cussed him about it, so he wrote her up. When brought up to the Sgt. Major he ripped the charge sheet up and said " We need to show her some compassion.". Compassion?!?!?!?!?!?! She had her chances and I bet numerous or she wouldnt have been on restriction, then to cuss a SNCO or even an NCO is mind boggling to me! Back to the compassion thing.....WTF! If a Marine shows up late for a patrol is he shown compassion? That kind of crap gets people killed. Thats why there was always a method to the madness. You train like you are at war even when not at war. The old timers when I was in said we were being pussified. Holy crap I cant believe the pussification now. The backstabbing, the fact that Marines dont stick up for each other anymore. Thats why the Commandant is the way he is, its trickled all the way down. I will always love the Corps, but seriously Im glad Im not there anymore. Id be a Gunny like most of my friends and Id shoot my mouth off and stick my chest out for my Marines then deal with their transgressions myself which would be so much better than write ups for them, theyd pay for it problem solved cause I bet theyd never do it again and they could go on to become some good Marines. Like a few of the ones I was in charge of back in the day have. Then Id just be burned myself. These poor scout snipers have no voice to stand out for them anymore. They'll for sure be burned.So you unopenminded people crying foul and hate, rest assure. Im really saddened by the state the Marine Corps is in. But I'll still say vindicate our Scout Snipers, someone has to.
If symbols a ruins didnt change meanings, then written language wouldn't have evolved we'd still be writing in sanskrit. Or one of the two earlier written languages than that. Their names have just escaped me at the moment and I dont have the sources nearby to find them.
"The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!"~ Eleanor Roosevelt
See Marines dont have to be politically correct our Nation loves us anyhow, they need us. Vindicate those Scout Snipers.
"I don't want any anti-semites or Nazi's around me while I kill people." – Moral Equivocator
Remember when killed the Nazi???? Now our own forces want to use their symbols and names. Talk about " thous who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it"
How on Earth does the USA manage to run a country with attitudes like this? From the article to the comments there is very little that isn't ill informed gibberish. From people that don't even know how their own Constitution protects their freedom of speech to those that seem to think the Holocaust was sufficiently benign to be forgotten. The problem here, both with the flag and with the American people is ignorance a level that is frankly beyond belief.
And we can put you right along side said ignorant people or perhaps in a different category labeled "gullible" if you think that this forum is a creditable indicator of the education level of our military and civillian leaders in respect to current events/history...maybe U.S. leaders should dump their secure voice telecons and briefing venues and come here to "hash out" our vitial policies and directives and be "lectured" by your high level of "understanding"?
You make a valid "point". However, your "bizarre" overuse of inverted commas makes you look like an "idiot".
Actually Buzzer is one of the few people on this thread that argues intelligently. Although we tend to agree to disagree he's taught me a few things. Idiot is definately not a term to describe him.
I am not sure our servicemen have complete freedom of speech while they serve. I am pretty sure they are not allowed to criticize the President, at least.
Bunch of dudes who can't hack it in the real world go off to camp to shoot bullets. Trillions of dollars in equipment and manpower and they can't even get the job done. Then they come back and tell us they're stressed out. Real tough. Go to community college, get a real job. Parade? Ha!
Must be real tough on you Danny boy, still living at home with mommy and daddy. Why don't you pop you mama's titty out of your mouth and just see how easy it is. I sincerely hope you're just trying to invite some kind of Internet riot with your comment. However, if they are your views, remember; "It's all on the wheel"
I wish my Devil Dog Grandpa were here to break out a can of Whoop A$$ on these young troopers for being so insensitive and/or ignorant that they flew the flag of THE ENEMY that he fought against in WWII. The Greatest Generation isn't the only one that is disgusted by these BS, anti-American flag waiving morons. Ooooh man. If he were here today to see them disgrace the friekin Core...
Oh and Uh, Jerry, you are a total bigot and an idiot. Go sell your racist, Ant-American BS on some Neo Nazi website. You are not part of the main stream. and by the way... there is Civilian Command of the military for a reason.
I've not said one thing that says I'm a racist, or a bigot. Go through my posts and find where I have. Dare you to. Not possible I hate nobody, all I speak are historical and present day truths. I can't help you are ignorant.
Jerry... who are you bsing, yourself? it's not an acident that your posts include an Iron Cross. And the page you refer to in your post is full of hatred against Jews, e.g., "Jews, mostly Zionist in nature, have spearheaded every movement or cause that now threatens our destruction and brings us to the edge of extinction and annihilation." Let me tell you, without the contributions of the Jewish people, the "Western world" would still be living "nasty, short and brutal" Hobbesian lives. Good grief man, wake up! the Jews even gave you your God!
Great pity that inspiring or utilitarian shapes/symbols are placed out of bounds to valliant soldiers and heroes simply by cherry picking association. Get real, and know that, for example, a lighting bolt S-shaped rune is used by the respected ruling party of Singapore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Action_Party), and the very shape of the present US military helmet is a near-dead ringer for the helmets used by Nazi stormtroopers. Ban them all?
Yes but the PAPs insignia is significantly different enough to be rendered unrecognizable. The changes are significant enought o make it look much more like a lightning in a circle. This insignia used by the scout snipers is close enough to the SS to warrant some concern.
Having said that though, I do find it a shame that some symbolisms create such offense. My pet peeve is with the swashtika in particular since it was used for centuries as a Buddhist symbol and is still used in plenty of buddhist temples around the world. If it is placed diagonally and within a red circle, then yes one can say its offensive. But if placed in upright in a square, it's a symbol for luck.
Maybe its time to reclaim all these symbols for the good that they were supposed to represent.
"Defense Secretary Leon Panetta asked the Marine Corps to look into the matter and take appropriate action..."
"Appropriate action"? I've got your appropriate action. It's called "MIND YOUR OWN F*&^ING BUSINESS!!! If you don't stand behind our Troops, try standing in front of them. The SS were the best trained and most motivated of Hitler's military forces. I'm sure that these Marines were only comparing themselves in that respect. It had nothing to do with being anti-semitic.
Mike, don't confuse the German army with the "SS." The SS were, as u put it, "motivated" by hatred of theJews.
As for the Jewish community let me give you something to occupy yourselves with other than trying to burn some innocent Marines with hate you cant let go. Solomons ring that he used to control demons with a build his oh so wonderful city....yeah its sitting on the popes fingers. Staff of Moses, in a small builing at the top of the well spring that used to bring Petra so much water. Dunno if you'll get either back because Vatican city will fight you tooth and nail for that ring and the building at the top of the mountain over Petra is a protected building. But I'll go ahead and tell you its in the basement behind a hollow wall thats been sealed over. There, occupy yourselves with that for a while and leave these Marines alone.
As for Solomons ring. Look at pictures of past popes hands to figure out which one has moved from finger to finger because its not permitted to be resized.....good luck.
SEIG HEIL!
SEIG FUCKIN' HEIL, BABY!
Dear CNN, how about you use your power of the free press to research symbols in use today about their pasts and truths and clear these Marines. Youre the press and supposed to report the truth reguardless. Start with the Christian Cross. Research things for once. Stop placing your bias into it and report unbiased truth. Change the minds of people with true reporting. Clear these Marines from the hatred of an ignorant peoples that you help create because you never tell a whole truth about anything. You play politics as much as the Crappy brass that wont stick their chests out for them. Its not just you its every staterun media outlet these days, Fox, MSNBC our own local newspapers. All political a censored agenda. Too scared to report truths because they dont want to step on anyones toes. Now 10 Marines lives are going to be completely ruined from Courts Matials, 10 Marines who fight for your right to freedom of the press. They wont even be able to apply for a job at McDonalds. Mainstream media disgusts me! Im just on here to wake people up to things on your articles, and I wont give up on this one until these Marines are vindicated.
Much ado about nothing. Who cares if civilians are offended? If you aren't in the military, you have no right to dictate anything they do unless you are in the chain of command *Secretay of Defense, etc) If you want input on how the military does something, join up. If not, shut up and stick to your Torah
I don't want to be defended by a bunch of Nazis. I'd go live in another, more civilize country.
(Oh wait, I already live in another country. thank God 🙂 )
As long as the military suckles at the taxpayers teat, then the taxpayers get to have a say.
The Chain of Command has given its decision, and gave it as far back as 2007 when Marine NCOs and officers were told to do something about hate-symbol tattoos and the like: the SS runes specifically included, That decision being given, the duty of every Marine is to salute and comply.
All members of the "Chain of Command" from the Preisdent on down take an oath which makes the military subject to the control of the peope, by the people and for the people. Sorry to disappoint you))
Romans not rand. And a symbol of hope to the very people it was used against. Damned iPhone. Being amaercan corporation products back to be made in America and maybe they would work right.
I don't want to be defended by a bunch of Nazis. I'd go live in another, more civilize country. (Oh wait, I already live in another country. thank God 🙂 )
So, if these Marines are gonna be court martialed for their flag because a bunch of whined Jews can't over come their hate and realize symbols change meanings. What's next? Christians displaying crosses? The Cross is the ultimate hate symbol it started out that way. Where as the lightning SS started out meaning Odin/Sun. I mean read history the cross killed 2 million people when the rand used it. Roughly 60 years later it was a symbol of holiness to the very people that used it. Then it was a symbol of evil to every non Christian because it was at the forefront of mobs going to murder people who weren't Christians. Genocides were committed with the cross at its forefront. The Spanish inquisitions later. Then in our very own United states the witch hunts. The KKK uses it to promote hate. But to some people it still has the meaning of hope. Mr Panetta you can't discriminate on this you're gonna have to Court Martial all those people too. Or you can open your mind realize symbols have different meanings to different people and tell the whiners to shove it. Otherwise you're condoning discrimination. Those Marines are innocent for you stubborn blockheads that can't realize symbols change change your tampons and go on with life. After all the very Christian cross is a symbol that murdered million of more people in hate than Hitler ever dreamed of. That is all.
Well great to see Pimento is spending his time – as Secretary of Defense that's important to keep the US Military intact- he's worried about a flag someone showed in a picture. Sounds like a job for the political correct guardian of the armed forces, the political correct zsar- not the secretary of defense. I see he's being a good foot soldier for his boss- so at least he has some military tendancy in that. While he try's to sell the country that cutting the US military budget in half, is just peachy keen.
So, what i'm getting is that a group of bored Jewish people, with nothing better to do with their time, saw a picture of a S.cout S.niper flag, and got offended because it is SIMILAR to a symbol that Nazis used? You've gotta be f*@#!ing kidding me... Since i'm pretty sure none of the people who were "offended" were even alive during the time that symbol is used, im going to have to assume that I also can't have anything with pyramids on it, cuz you know they're probably offended that their people were enslaved not too long ago.
This is even more intolerant and ignorant than most of the atheist whining that you see nowadays. The swastica was used in almost every culture thousands of years before the Hitler was ever born, but one group of radicals use it and it becomes a symbol of evil forever... My own country disgusts me sometimes...
I am not Jewish. But, as a young kid, I saw the SS first hand during WWII. My father, also not Jewish, survived 4-1/2 years in a camp near Leipzig, but tens of thousand in the same camp were not so lucky. All these concentration camps were run by some of the SS "elite." Does these creeps in the picture only know that almost TWELVE millions people, which included 6 million Jews and 5-1/2 non-Jews, perished in these camps run by SS, ? And what about the millions of civilians, especially on the Eastern Front, massacred in cold blood, by these same SS? Does Lidice, Poland or Oradour-sur-Glane, France, ring a bell to these assassins in the pictures?
To those in this comment string: has anyone of you ever killed another soldier in combat? Most likely not. To know you have killed in combat fellow human beings, enemy of course, is terrible enough. But to volunteer to kill in COLD BLOOD an enemy is nothing but sick to the extreme (I know, someone must "do it," and the enemy has the same type of psychopaths on the other side).
If you people don't like the use of the flag, Enlist in the Military and change it. I have never been to a war zone, and i'm sure many people getting pissed at the picture haven't either so instead of sitting and complaining Go through OCS so you fix the problem. But if you don't plan on joining the military, aren't a retired serviceman or woman.....do not get involved in our troops buisness.
So in quick order this thing has become "the flag." For a select group I guess. But apparently, it's not even any kind of official unit insignia , or else how could the military brass be appalled by it? No, it looks like just a clique of right-wing extrremists, who were apparently reported by other military before the Jewish groups did so.
According to a couple of folks that know about its "history" this style of SS has been used by this particular unit for over 25 years...branding these letters on all individuals in the unit...I HIGHLY DOUBT that there have been no black or jewish members....right wing "extremists" displaying anti-semtic propaganda in the USMC and nothing has been done about it until now?
You pay taxes – you get bitching rights.
They didn't know?
I call bullshit.
Look at that flag. You buy that flag in a Nazi parafernalia store like this one: http://www.totls.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16:close-out-corner&catid=1:home&Itemid=30 (see bottom of the page, that's the exact same flag)
"Ooh! I didn't know it was a Nazi SS flag when I ordered it at the Nazi SS flag store! I'm so sorry!"
My personal opinion is that symbols mean nothing. It's the ideology behind the symbol that counts. This blog has reached a level of absurdity not seen on CNN for quite a while!
Exactly!
America is the new Reich.
STUPID SILLINESS. SOCIAL SECURITY. Why is the sec. of defense and the top leader of the USMC wasting thier time on nonsense? Maybe because after 10 years they have little to show for thier brilliant efforts in the graveyard of empires.
Ya bunch of NAZI queers
I'll bet they love polishing each others guns.
By the way, that flag? That EXACT flag? Do you know where one buys it? I mean, you don't think these guys stitched it up themselves right? No. You buy it from a website that sells Nazi paraphernalia.
http://www.totls.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16:close-out-corner&catid=1:home&Itemid=30
Tell me again how they just thought that the KISS logo looked cool.
the logo look cool, I have no intetion to be racist but the logo doesnt mean nothing to me and its just look cool.
So, you would just RANDOMLY find yourself shopping on a Nazi site to look for something "cool"? Sorry man, you come off pretty ignorant.
I have no hate for noone, why should I hate nazi, they have not done anything to me. what if I like the logo, whats the problem with that? if the jews whants to remeber their past are their problem, I am not. and i am not racist, i just dont see what the problem with that. the true is I dont care what happen in the past or anyone past.
So this particular flag is only $7.50 + shipping? Right?
It is a good picture, and jews people forget about the past and look forward the future.
what the matter with Jews people? they get so offened so easyly, look at others, people talk about cristian and we dont even care, whats the big deal? I am not a racist but have you heard about the law if anyone denied the millions jews killed will be suit by law?? that is stupid and I was born after that happen so I can not say i believe in it, for me to believe I have to see it.
there are many hate groups in the military. at Merrill Barracks, Nurenburg 69-70 the Black Panthers had a private meeting place with meetings on gov't time. wore all kinds of military insignia. General stars on their berets was very popular.
Look at the bottom right hand side and tell me what color that Marine is. He's black. Wow! So Nazi like. A black Nazi, who'd have thought! People aren't even taking in the whole picture, just the flag.
He ain't black dumb azz! If he's black then I'm an amazonian!
People with a career in the military are oblivious to commonly known military history? It's really hard to believe no one anywhere looked at that flag before and sid, "Um, guys..."
How come everytime this happens, somebody gets pissed! Dont we have freedom of speech? I get offended allmost everyday. Then i say to myself that is what they believe in. How many times have people taken a symbol and used it for something else? what happened in the past was wrong! There are too many people jumping on bandwaggons nowadays!
The idea that US Marines identifying with the savages who deliberately slaughtered innocent, unarmed civilians for Hitler in WW II is "no big deal" is frankly an appalling display of ignorance and naivety.
You don't have freedom of anything in the military. You follow orders. You are owned once you sign up It is unconscionable that a group of US marines would adopt a nazi symbol.
@david.....Right on!
"They determined that the Marines in the photo were ignorant of the connection of this symbol to the Holocaust and monumental atrocities associated with Nazi Germany,"
This, right here, is the entire root of the problem. Ignorance. The idea that a group of grown men, educated enough to be members of a specialist and elite army corps, should be completely unaware of such an essential and vital piece of world history (especially essential in the context of their own work), speaks volumes about the problems with education, and access to information, in America today.
Or it would mean that if it were true, those marines knew what they were doing.
Also another point. Isn't Israel following early Nazi tactics at the moment. They are taking Palestinian homes and business and rounding them up into specific areas. Exactly what the Nazi's did to them at first. While they are following Early Nazi practice they whine over the fact that some one took a rune that once belonged to the Nazi's and changed its meaning into something positive? Just another thing to think about.
Then of course, they've been with holding food supplies to the Palestinians in those areas. Got so bad that the Palestinians mobbed the Egyptian border to seek food and aid. Then there is the fact the Israelis gun down any Palestinian who cross the border out of that area into Israeli lands. Then when Turkey tried to send relief ships there was a scuffle there an American was killed. How very Nazi like of them.
wonder why hitler hated jews or why jews been kicked out of many countries?
Really? Nice try Jerry. But Israel doesn't interfere in Pal commerce in the WB. The UN's Palmer Commission said the blockade of Gaza was legal and that the IDF's use of force was justified. Gaza is blockaded for a reason. Perhaps if the Pals spent more time thinking about statehood then sending bombers to pizza parlors hey wouldn't be in their current predicament. The new nazis are every Muslim nation. Every Muslim nation is an Apartheid. AN Apartheid against, Xtians, Hindus, Jews. An Apartheid against women. An Apartheid against gays. Take your head out of your butt for 5 minutes.
And the blockade is legal because of why? The US of A the state of Israel's biggest ally is a major player in the UN. Im not saying the other Muslim countries aren't terrorists. But to exclude Israel from that is a dead on mistake when so much of the world believes they are terrorists as well. They are following playing Nazi tactics if you can't see that you are blind. The ghetto is much bigger of course. But they steal palestinian land to claim as their own and put in Jewish settlements and kick the palestinians out. Exactly what the Nazi's did. Palestinians aren't saints either they are a terror group as well. But open your eyes to the truth man Israel isn't much better.
What a joke. This is like saying math teachers should be fired because a + symbol resembles a cross.
Did anyone even think of the possibility that perhaps those SS shapes looks a lot like the font used by rock group KISS? Before you all go out and accuse these soldiers of being Nazis, maybe you should look closer at American pop culture first.
Here's are 2 exerpts from an interview with an ex-neo-Nazi recruiter named T.J. LEYDEN:
"Since joining the human rights organization in June 1996, Leyden has given speeches at more than 100 high schools, the Pentagon, FBI headquarters, police agencies and in other venues. Leyden, who worked as a Skinhead recruiter for years, decided to leave the movement after he heard his 3-year-old son using racial slurs and began to fear for the boy's future."
"When I was in the Marines, I was writing to one of my friends in California, and he wrote back saying he was doing security for Tom Metzger. I said, "Wow!" Then, all of a sudden, Tom writes to me and sends me the WAR paper. So I start corresponding with him. I didn't actually get to meet him until I got out of the military [in 1990].
I was recruiting, organizing Marines to join the racist movement. I manipulated guys through little things, talking to them about Nazism on a small scale.
Like the Marines never had tailored uniforms until after World War II, and then all of a sudden we were tailoring ourselves because we wanted to look sharp like the Nazis. We wanted to walk and have thunderous footsteps like the Nazis. I would take things in the Marine Corps and say the Nazis did this first.
Eventually, I was kicked out for alcohol-related incidents — not for being a racist. If you look at my military packet you're not going to find anything about me being a racist. And I had two-inch high Nazi SS bolts tattooed on my neck!"
Link to full article:
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/1998/winter/a-skinheads-story?page=0,0
Panetta is just playing coy to buy time so he can figure out what to do. This isn't really a new issue. If you grew up in a small town in the United States and have at least an average IQ and ears, I don't think that it is too hard to imagine that there's a neo-Nazi subculture in the Marines. Just read the comments on this article.
C'mon guys, do you really think writing trolliish comments about the Jews is helping those Marines look less like Nazis? "Jewish Congress"? (56.8% Protestant, 29.2% Catholic, 2.8% Mormon...7.3% Jewish. Oh yeah, they really have some major leverage over those Christians there. Oh yeah, but they do have that magic Jew-Jew Money power right? Those poor Christians are just powerless against it's evil spell.)
These Marines are just people dealing with their situation. I don't think they should be punished (with what they risk and do for the rest of us they deserve some slack), but they should be shown why their stupid decision makes the Marines look bad (i.e. it pisses on all American soldiers who died in WWII to defeat Hitler). Of course now that it's exposed to mainstream society, I'm sure they're already beginning to get the picture.
I wonder if anyone has really noticed there is a black man posing in the full size of this picture on the very right hand side at the bottom. Yeah.... Very nazi like there, I tell you what.
Juts because a black man was posing with the picture doesn't make it right. It makes him profoundly ignorant. I don't think anybody is accusing these guys of being racists. They are being accused of profound ignorance.
Apparently you haven't been following posts that's exactly what they are trying to do accuse them of being Neo Nazi's and that it is a hate crime. But for a black Marine to be posing with them kinda blows that whole idea out of the water.
He's not fucking black you stupid fuck. Grow some fucking eyeballs you ignorant git.
Sounds like an honest mistake. Still, it just had to be Marines doing this kind of BS...
Meaning what exactly....
If we are going to give people guns and the license to kill other people, we should at least educate them about how that power has been abused in the past. If these guys really had no idea what the symbol represented, then somebody screwed up by making them scout snipers.
There is no reason they shouldnt be scout snipers. Every Scout Sniper uses this rune today to represent themselves. They came into it as that already established. So to them its a tradition and truely means, Scout Sniper. If you wanna lay blame to anyone lay blame on the Head of the Marine Corps who so blatantly denies he knew of it. Yet as I'll say again you dont get to be Commandant without knowing these things and he still allowed it to continue. Also the person that came up with the idea decades ago. But you can certainly not blame the Scout Snipers in the photo.
Let's play Nazis! There is nothing wrong with it, it's just for fun, making tour of duty less dull.
Guys, find different "logo" for Sniper Scout! This current "runes" are essentially drawing on SS-waffen sign. Why? For what it brings up. Ferocious, cold, merciless, elite murderers, die to the last, never surrender. I would rather suggest Sniper Scouts to "work out" some different graphics for SS letters. It shouldn't be to difficult. Look for something around the ideals like: just, swift, tough, right, decisive, sharp, mindfull.
For me it is clear, planned analogy to Waffen-SS sign and it would not stand in other allied armies (brits and poles in particular).
If polish snipers wish to think of themselves as murderers then so be it. However a Marine Scout Sniper engages and kills enemy combatants to save lives. Their mission is to take on the enemy from a distance to either deter the enemy from engaging friendly troops or support surrounded troops by providing confusion to the enemy combatants so that the friendlies can get themselves out of a certain death situation. Scout Snipers saves lives, calling them murderers is an insult to them.
Fine, the jewish community wants to throw their own hate at something innocent that meant something completely different than what they hate so much and call for court martials, then i think the US of A should finally stand by one of its scruples. Stop support of Israel because they are just as much a terrorist country as Afghanistan was. We dont condone terrorism, yet Israel resorts to terrorism and commits hate crimes against the palestinians all the time. Of course they do it right back. But still they are terrorists. Im sure not all Jews are terrorists just like not all muslims are terrorists. But the State of Israel plans and condones such actions against palestine. So why aren't they on the terrorist watchdog list too? The Jewish community owes our military hugely. We liberated them in WWII, we gave them the equipment to win the 7 day war, we gave them nukes. The unappreciative buttheads are now throwing hate at innocent soldiers for using a ruin that doesnt even stand what they think it stands for and wont even except an explanation for it. There is the real hate. If anyone is commiting a hate crime its the jewish community calling for Courts Martials without using any judgement or understanding or tact to say, well okay we can see the Scout Sniper stance but it really offends us could you ask them to please stop using it? then let it go.
Marines* not soldiers forgive me Ive been up all night with a stomach virus and its now 6:30 Am so it was a slip up.
Next you will be saying something unkind (but true) about the french. Stop this madness before the FBI is at your door. Common sense thinking has no place in this day and age. We must all be hyper sensitive and ever so offended to any insult whether real or imagined.
thanks for the concern but I'll always speak the truth and my mind. I know Obama wrote into law on December 31st 2011 that the government can detain a US citizen for no reason at all for as long as they like without due process. I'm not afraid of it. Standing up for my brothers and sisters is right. They really were not consciously in the wrong. Take me if the wish. I'll just tell it to them like it is as well. I'm an American with the freedom of speech.
Jerry, the Jewish community doesn't owe the US anything. My father served during WW2, along with a number of US Jews., lied about his age and enlisted when he was 15. You're simply an out and out bigot, you know nothing about the Palestine-Israeli conflict or much about anything else from what I can tell. And for the record, the Israelis won the 6-day war with French and British equipment that they bought and paid for, Their airforce was composed of Mirage fighters, their army backed by British Cheiftan tanks. They received no US military aid until after the 6-Day war. You're ignorance is profound. Keep talking Jerry, you sound like a paranoid nazi.
thats that Jewish hate I was talking about, don't agree with them then you must be anti-Semitic . No you sound like a sensitive Jew that can't get over his past. I'm surprised Jews arent arguing " anti-semitism anti-semitism" because there is a pyramid on the back of a one dollar bill. Or have you forgotten how much of your people's blood went into those?
it was the 7 day war, the us contributed a lot of equipment to it. Even a few old style atomic bombs. Their tanks were 100% American made partner. The F-4's they used yup donated by the US of A maybe you should get YOUR facts straight.
And for the record no I'm not a Nazi or a Nazi sympathizer. What I am is one pissed off Marine, that these Marines are having their lives ruined with court Martials which will result in two felonies each because they displayed a flag that has been a part of their tradition since they have joined the scout snipers. To them they don't know any different because it's always meant Scout Sniper to them. but the Jewish community being the anti-semitism accusing over sensitive paranoids they are won't accept the truth of that statement and wants the court Martials immediately instead of putting aside their hate and saying okay we see the Scout Sniper stance and using a little tact and asking that they stop using the symbol because it offends them. Bet they would've complied. But know hate rampages through their veins and now these Marines are gonna suffer serious penalties over a flag flown in innocence. Really?!?! Two felonies over a flag? They won't even be able to find a job at McDonalds. I can see if they went out and found a Jew and murdered him and carved the rune into his forehead. Yeah I say burn em with everything in the book. But this is stupid.
Big and Jerry- just trying to "educate" you both...Jerry there were no F-4's involved in the 6/7 Day War and to both of you they used a "mix" of French, US and British tanks...just do the research.
I am beginning to really question our jewish friends and countrymen. Seems like they are really toxic. This is just another example.
If given a choice between a spoiled selfish jew or a marine scout sniper, I'd select the scout sniper and day of the week.
I think we as America should reconsider our financial and military support for Israel.
And I'm Jewish.
All companies and organizations with the initials SS should be forbidden from using those initials. Historical extremists would like that, too. As it is, they're just using this for free publicity.
OMG Michal Jordan is wearing the same facial hair as HITLER!!! He is Black Hitler!! Save me Panetta!!!
I think we should court martial the Jewish Congress. Bunch of misfits anyways that probably never saw a day of conflict in their lives.
The Jewish foundation asks for court Martials? Who are they to judge and demand, the Scout Snipers are Americans risking their lives.
Is the world forbidden to use SS as initials in languages that are not German?
If they are so insulted don't accept American money, and do not be the #1 arms merchants in the world.
Shame on Pannetta that is not Israeli but American.
Ha! Ha! Theese iss furthur pwoof that thee US iss on thee roaad to deestrucshion. Onlee iff the grate Iran ess allowed to roole will theengs bee sorted out! Anyways, eye lyke the flag.
You can't even spell....
This is awesome: Weinstein demands Court-Martial proceedings begin immediately! For what charge? There certainly is no new charge being brought up. Even the UCMJ prohibits double jeopardy: the commander had already refused to punish the Marines when this was first brought up. As for the Marines who reported this to the Military Religious Freedom Foundation being fearful of reprisals: Really? Are we not grown-ups who can handle our problems like grown-ups? It had been addressed before, and squashed, but maybe not to your satisfaction. Did you demand too much?
This isn't right. Unjust. These Marines are innocent! They're to be made an example of for doing something that was no crime! Their flag stands for Scout Sniper, always has been since they became Scout Snipers they don't know any different. If they want to cook someone for it, it should be the Commandant he lied and said he didn't know anything about it. But you dont get to commandant without knowing these things. He allowed it to go on. Now he is going to hang them out for the witch hunt. They'll serve brig time, auto felony. Then they'll get a bad conduct, or dishonorable, another felony. They are gonna completely ruin these mens lives over a flag! One they thought for sure stood for something else and was okay to fly because their MOS has been doing it for decades. I could see a mild hate crime if it was the side of a Jewish Temple they were posing on. Or they had went out and found a Jew killed him and burned it into his forehead. But these men have done nothing wrong. Wow! Yanno I really wished i was still able to wear my uniform and hadnt been medically retired by the Corps for a long time. But when I see this, Im not so sure Id want to still be in. People do more atrocious things to get a misdameanor out here in the civilian world. People murder people to get felonies. Im just stunned, they're gonna get two felonies over a flag that stands for scout sniper because of ignorance and the Jewish communities not being able to let go of their hate. Seriously if they want to bitch about something then bitch about the dollar bill design. It has a pyramid on its design, Jews were enslaved beaten and murdered to build those things, but not a one of them complains about that. As a matter of fact they covet the damned dollar bill. Makes absolutely no sense.
Hey Jerry?
1) The Marines in this photo were made to take a history class so as to understand what the symbol means. That's it.
2) Historians now know that the pyramids were not built with slave labor.
I agree with those who stated that these guys most likely meant no harm. I can believe that. It doesn't mean that such ignorance isn't embarrassing. Nobody had seen a picture in a book, or these modern day soldiers had never witnessed this symbol in the many WWII movies that exist? Would they not want a symbol all their own? Those touting freedom should remember this isn't a poster at home, this is a flag flown while in uniform. If you are telling everyone else to respect our Marines, consider those Marines who would have nothing to do with such a symbol, like me. Lastly for those trying to say symbols change. Sure they CAN change, but that doesn't mean this one did. Ask 100 people on the street and I challenge you to find one who says anything but (1) Nazi SS and (2) I don't know. Furthermore, it doesn't mean that it changed to fit your needs. For example: The book Gangs, written by Tony Thompson (a crime correspondent for The Observer), states that Stephen Cunningham, a member of the Angels, sported a new patch after he recovered from attempting to set a bomb: two Nazi-style SS lightning bolts below the words 'Filthy Few'. Some law enforcement officials claim that the patch is only awarded to those who have committed, or are prepared to commit, murder on behalf of the club. Keep in mind even the Hell's Angels removed the "SS" in favor of 666 as their German members are not allowed to sport the "SS". People see "SS" and it has a very clear visual communication, one that the fine men of women of the USMC don't need. So, as you can see, many of these arguments are ineffective.
I can guarantee that almost all of those answers would be "don't know". I'm 55 – my generation is the children of the WWII generation – therefore we are the parents of the 20 and 30-somethings of today. I asked MY friends if they recognized the symbol – a good many of them didn't, but said "oh, yeah!" when told what it was. My son's generation – forget it. Not even a glimmer of recognition. This is the age of the marines involved in this incident. I truly believe that this was an honest mistake. Find something important to complain about. Spend the money we can't afford to waste on something that will actually do some good. This surely isn't it.
SERIOUSLY? I'm in my early 40's and I'd consider myself to have had a shamefully poor education if I didn't know who and what the SS were. I come from a family with no particular WWII ties (other than my grandfather who served in the Pacific and saw no combat) so there isn't a strong familial connection.
That said? My 20 year old nephew knew what it was when I asked him...and he hadn't so much as seen an episode of Hogan's Heroes. So, I'm going to have to say that you merely had a woefully inadequate education.
How in the world could these "warriors" be so ignorant of the history of war?
its simple we have a rotting education system because it can't acquire the funds to properly keep up with things. when budget cuts are made sadly education is one of the first things in the list.
America is a bastion of ignorance.
What the fuck? You're not makin' any sense Bradleyboy.....
After much thought I have decided that this flag ceremony is as low as you can go. Obviously it is the work off the neo nazi cabal that runs Washington. All these people should be shot. If you think back to the "Imagined " plight of the Jwish state and you will realize that this flag represents no problem and perhaps should be flown in our capitol.
Ur a moron....
Says the fuck-tard who can't spell 'you're'.
Our government is pandering to the Jewish community on this issue. If the Jewish community doesn't like it, they should have contacted the unit and respectfully requested them to change it and leave it up to the unit to decide, to go crying to our government was so cowardly. These men, that unit put their lives on the line for a community that doesn't deserve their hard work and efforts. Shame shame shame.
Actually Bradley, if you READ the article that followed this, you'd know that 47 Marines had already stepped forward and complained BEFORE a Jewish rights organization "which also called on the U.S. government" was ever involved.
Our nation fought and died to protect the world from Hitler's Reich. Now we're supposed to think it is a good thing that our troops are wearing the symbology of the greatest evil the world has ever known? Seriously? Many of these guys also got SS lightning-bolt tattoos.
It's all about intent, that's the bottom line, and there was no malice intent in the display of this symbol/flag. The members of this unit had no Nazi ideals or intent so there is nothing wrong with it. Just like the confederate flag. The Southern states had it right during the civil war (of course except for slavery). They fought for states rights more than slavery. There is NO way that i'll ever believe the North was fighting to free the slaves. Think about it, it took 100 years longer for African Americans to get civil rights and then were still treated horrible for years and years.
It's fair to fly the confederate flag just as much as this unit should be able to keep their flag. We need to learn that states need to govern themselves and not a federal government. The feds should protect our interest, borders and keep us safe, AND THAT IS ALL, the states should take care of everything else.
Here here!
Arnaldo man, you ARE the computer coward lo, you probably play CoD and think blowing stuff up is cool. Plenty of douchebags like you in this military town. I'm gonna enlist and be a BAMF! Oh wait, I have to kill innocent people to do that...come home...oh no I'm scarred. Lol.
You sound like a fuckin meathead to me
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=meathead
Seem familiar?
Shutup. You are a moron. Please do not procreate..be like hitler and kill yourself...
How do you know that? Do you know these people personally?
If they have no nazi ideals then why did they go to a nazi paraphenelia site and buy the flag?
http://www.totls.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16:close-out-corner&catid=1:home&Itemid=30
Yeah yeah yeah. As a Marine sniper from 97-01 then recalled 03-05 I can tell you that the lightening bolt symbols are in no way associated with Nazism. Scout Sniper, the S in scout and the S in sniper is actually how it breaks down.Just as the Swastika was in no way originally intended for evil. Just another politician dancing to the loudest fiddle. I guess kiss were Nazis also-the first Nazi Jew rock and Roll band.Hey Panetta did Santorum or Tipper Gore put you up to this? This is the junk that helped make the decision to get out in the first place. Who is the real enemy I wonder? I guarantee there camouflage comes with a tie.
The real enemy sits nice and cozy behind their desks in the District of Columbia, stepping on our constitution, pandering to corporate lobbyists, and throwing multi million dollar extravagant parties at the taxpayers expense. He's called a politician.
Completely agree, "SS" could mean a wide variety of things, for this "Scout Sniper" is so obvious it shouldn't take much thought to come to that conclusion.
Not to mention the lighting bolts are the symbol of Thor, I believe the USA does have freedom of religion protected, so if one chooses to believe in the old Norse deities that's their choice. Just like how the swastika is a Buddhist symbol for peace; the Nazi's took that from them, that does not make the symbol Nazi.
Go to Asia and travel a bit, you will see so many swastikas that it's a common sight in Buddhist areas, does that make them all Neo Nazis? The ignorance these days is sickening.
Leave the marines alone!!!!!
This guys are heroes! Thanks to this guy you and I have freedom to "complaint" about everything.
The whole automatic hero because they signed up, because they needed a job, is tiresome. They kill people, simple as that. Why do you think there is so much PTSD? PTSD by the way is just another diagnosis in the ever expanding lexicon for describing, "guilt".
And you sat next to them while they enlisted and know this first hand. Another computer coward who would soil themselves in the presence of these warriors.
Yeah, enlisted in the Air Force, couldn't join because of a charge on my record, I live n CO Springs, military town. You have a small dick.
If you don't like somebodies ideas then that is cool, why pretend like you know somebody though, you're a moron, I'm far from a coward, I think you don't like what I have to say, why not say that? Douche.
P-y
says Jarhead187(murder death kill) yeah bro, youre a bamf.
Wannabe heroes but youre just thugs in a club. Ill kill your ass
Hahaha who's the wannabe, convict? I served. I don't have a record like you convict. Just go buy another ounce with your medical marijuana license, and enjoy the freedoms other who are not criminals like you provide.
Good one, guess what? Don't give a shit, you can enjoy you are your jarhead friends in hell
U enlisted but were stopped because of ur pedophile charge. Moron...So now until the end of time SS can no longer be used...
You are an idiot...Join the Marine for a paycheck? If you qualify, you start at 15k....As with any work place if you screw up you are out.. don't screw up you get promoted. Your PTSD analysis tells me you haven't a clue.These last two wars were not against regulars.Guys in uniform! They were fought against against insurgents, a rag tag bunch of men, women, and kids.who
were motivated by different
religions to kill anyone wearing
a uniform. When you call it a day, do you have to worry about whose kid you killed today....or is your fellow marine going to live after losing both legs to an IED.
@shutup, You're just another idiot who hates the military because you weren't allowed in. You're far from a coward? At some point in your life you showed that you didn't have the fortitude to do the right thing. If that doesn't make you a coward then I obviously must not have a complete grasp of the word's definition. You are right though, some people do join for a job, but does that disqualify them from being a hero? So using your logic, the bus driver who escorted children off the bus before it was engulfed in flames isn't a hero because she became a bus driver because she needed a job. Or maybe the passengers of flight 93 aren't heroes because they bought a plane ticket without having any intentions of preventing a terrorist attack. The marines in the photo aren't heroes because they signed up, they're heroes because of the sacrifices they have made in the defense of our nation. But what would someone like you know about sacrifice. You couldn't sacrifice your drug habit to obey the law. Or maybe you couldn't sacrifice the cash to call a cab after a few drinks. Idiots like you make me question why I've made the sacrifices that I have to serve my country. But luckily for the most part there are enough good people in this country to make it worth it. Unfortunately, people like you are far more vocal than the vast majority of sane people. Grow up and quit blaming the military for your problems, you're decisions in life are the reason for you being denied the honor of serving your nation.
Shutup- When the conversation turns to personal insults about someone you don't even know from behind a computer, your creditability and effort to even converse with someone goes into the toilet...when your argument turns personal you've lost said argument...you FAIL in the most pathetic way. If you would have been accepted into the USAF, your "mouth" would only continue to run from the protection of amonimity of your computer or your comments would only be made within the close circles of people that think and talk like you, and not out in the open subject to the ears of NCOs or officers...if that were the case, your ass would be chewed off, you would "take it" then your butt would be removed from my Air Force so fast you wouldn't know what hit you...active duty USAF Major 15 years. Press with you "insults" now, your comments don't mean a thing to ANYONE.
Bullshit.