Women in combat policy to change
By Barbara Starr
The Defense Department is notifying Congress Thursday it will open up nearly 14,000 jobs to military women that will place them even closer to the front lines of combat.
A senior Pentagon official confirmed details to CNN, but declined to be identified until a formal announcement comes later on Thursday.
Under a 1994 policy, women are restricted from formally serving in small ground units directly involved in combat. The reality of the last ten years of war however has been that many women serve in support positions–such as military police or medics–which place them in harms way. They are not formally assigned to combat units, but rather informally "attached" which means they do not get the crucial credit for combat duty that is needed for promotions to higher grades.
Some of the jobs that will now be open to women include specialties such as tank or artillery mechanic, crew members on missile launcher, and field surgeons in forward deployed brigade combat teams.
However, women will still not be permitted in front line jobs directly involved in combat such as infantry units or counterterrorism sniper teams.
Over the last several years, advocates as well as some senior US military commanders have increasingly called for more ground combat jobs to be open to women.
According to Pentagon statistics more than 140 women have lost their lives in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and more than 860 have been wounded.
The new changes may not go into effect fully until later this year as Congress must have 30 days in continuous session to have a chance to voice objections if there are any.
@natlsecuritycnn on Twitter
Opinions are like baseball hats....
...every asshole has one.
OK...Let me make this very plain for everyone.
1) Unless the PT standards/job requirements are exactly the same as men across the board, this is a no go.
2) Unless women are required to maintain all the required standards 100% of the time just as men are required to do, this is a no go. That includes getting knocked up. You can either get out or take a 25-50% cut in pay or get an abortion. Your choice. I am in favor of this same requirement for men as there is a group of them that are sub-standard therefore non-deployable and I have had to pull back-to-backs because of them.
3) All women MUST register for the draft otherwise they get NO federal or state funds ever in there entire life, just like men.
Due to the unbalanced standards, women are recieving MORE pay than men for doing less work. Equal means equal. One equals one. The standards should not come down, women must meet the men's standards for the defense of the nation or get out. I spoke with a female O3 today, she readily admitted, she did NOT want to be held to the same requirements as men. Mentally she felt she could do the job but physically, she did NOT even want to try. I'm a 46 year old E8 and the O3 I spoke with today is 20 years my younger. She didn't want to be held to the physical standards I am held to. Women in the military do not want nor can they handle being treated as equals. They just want preferential treatment. Until thier feet are held to the fire, we will always have a weak spot.
Wow! You're one angry dude. There's a place for women in the military. They are sometimes smarter than we are. You need to chill, brother.
I'm all for women in foxholes provided they meet the same requirements as me. I am progressive. I say open al all AFSCs, MOSs and jobs to everyone provided the requirements for everyone is exactly the same and thosw wanting to do the job can meet all, 100%, of the requirements!! That is called being fair!
There are women who could meet those requirements, but I think even if they did, you'd still have a problem with them.
Sorry GoNavy, you are wrong. in my 26 yrs, there has been one (1) woman who agreed with this and lived it. She was AWESOME!! Never complained, did the job just like men, worked hard to compete on the men's PT scale, never asked for any of the BS women ask for, she even got POd at females who played the gender card. Damn she was good, but she decided she wanted a family and left the military.
Not angry just staying reality, over time we will see the corrosive effects of emasculating the military. Again there is a reason why women don't compete directly head to head against men physically. But time will prove this policy idiotic and dangerous. Having taught self-defense courses to women only convinced me more that this is a HUGE mistake. Also if women want to fight there is nothing stopping them from banning together a marching do Capitol Hill and demanding their right to fight, and again I hear crickets. And the physical difference is only one problem of which there are many others.
Stop government sanctioned terrorism against medical marijuana patients:
The active ingredient in marijuana cuts tumor growth in common lung cancer in half and significantly reduces the ability of the cancer to spread, say researchers at Harvard University who tested the chemical in both lab and mouse studies.
source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070417193338.htm
The new findings “were against our expectations,” said Donald Tashkin of the University of California at Los Angeles, a pulmonologist who has studied marijuana for 30 years.
“We hypothesized that there would be a positive association between marijuana use and lung cancer, and that the association would be more positive with heavier use,” he said. “What we found instead was no association at all, and even a suggestion of some protective effect.”
source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/25/AR2006052501729.html
I'm with you Capt. L – this stupid concept of war on marijuana patients is unconstitutional and ignorant.
I agree with you on the PT standards.. they are really low for females. I was in the military for 7 years, served in Afghanistan. I have always pushed my limits no matter what it was, in other words, I got my hands dirty. If I depend on the guy next to me to get me out of a sitation, i damn sure will get him out of a sitation. All I got to say is, if a woman REALLY WANTS TO DO THE JOB THAT MEN DO out there... they better are willing to lift some dude out of a buring truck, lift all that weight that those guys have to carry, and deal with the dirt the guys do. I done seen pretty girls get away with a lot of crap in my time and I am sick of females pulling the "femminine excuse". If u signed up for it, you better are willing to get dirty with the guys. End of story.
To My Worthy Competitors: It's been entertaining, but I have a real life. I'm sure you're OK guys, but you need to stop being so tough on women. They are stronger than you think in all ways. ...Nightie night.
Good night nice lady! It has been fun! We hope to see you again. Sweet dreams.
I am sorry. I have been using other people's names. Everyone hates me because I am a cold, frigid, shrew. Please forgive me. My snooch is shrunken and dried from no use and I am sad. Think of an old, dusty attic in Wisconson in the winter. Brrrrr.
I, too, have a shrunken twinkie!! However, I only have feelings for boys, sorry.
I am sorry. I see that Shaney was using other peoples' names for posting. Everyone hates her. Please forgive our child that we have to keep locked upstairs.
Shaney's mom is just trying to cover up for Loyal's bad behavior. You see, his a little "slow" and he's really, really gay.
Will you please give me some pleasure? I will pay you as I usually pay others.
CPT Kleiman is in the Air Force guys...
It is true. Shaney is a merkin. If you use a search engine you will see what I deal with daily. In addition, having to put newspapers on the furniture every month is a real pain.
Loyal's Dad-It's true, Loyal is truly gay and he's thinking of getting a sex change. And "Keep our Military strong" is his lover.
This also means that every woman MUST register for the draft or recieve no state of federal money ever....just like men.
Exactly.
Would it be possible for women in combat to get their own showers? Golden showers if possible.
Only if we can get those for men also--I love me some big man popsicle right about now!!!!
That's it.... The wedding's off, "Keep our Military strong and tough". I would like to hook up with Shaney. He's a real man.
Time to go to bed! You have school tomorrow and if you don't earn your GED then you will have to have your baby somewhere else!
Why, she can just do what other American teens do – toss it in a dumpster.
Loyal Democrat's Dad-Loyal, get your sister's dress off and get your butt to bed, you have to get up early for your "Glee" tryouts tomorrow.
What showers?
May I say to everyone....again, this has become one of the most entertaining and creative blog sessions I have seen on CNN. My complements to all, whatever your views. I love sitting back and watching this!
Please help me! I need to make some hot butter corn tonight!
Now we just have to require women to sign up for Selective Service just like young men are required to do and we'll be moving toward equality.
I did 4 tours. The ladies were very good for morale. We had to do all of their work, but they paid us back very well, many times, in many different positions.
Attention All: "Loyal Democrat" and I just hooked up and now we're thinking of getting married!!! Thank you everyone for all your well wishes!!! And again, I am gayer than gay and women TOTALLY deserve to be on the front lines.
Can I be the camp follower? I don't need butter!
Why do you have Obama? Are you a racist also?
If you do not like Democrats, go to Fox, you low life Tea Bagger!
Democrats are bad? They elected the first black, you stupid racist.
I am sorry. I was using another person's name for the above post. Everyone hates me because I am a cold, frigid, shrew. Please forgive me "Keep our Military strong and tough". My snooch is shrunken and dried from no use and I am sad.
The only way to impress me is to spank my monkey and then give me a Brasil wax.
Wow!!! That's how I feel also! Wanna hook up?!!
What are you doing trying to hook up with Shaney, "Loyal"?!! We're supposed to be getting married!???
I am a Merkin! (google it, you will be impressed)
If any man here is interested in hooking up, let me know and I'll give you my number off-line. And again, I am gay and I think women deserve to in the front lines.
HAHAHA! DISREGARD THAT, I SUCK CAWKS.
Really!!!! Are you wearing a blue dress?
May I say to everyone.... this has become one of the most entertaining and creative blog sessions I have seen on CNN. My complements to all, whatever your views.
Equal pay, equal right to die. If it wasn't for women Stalingrad would have fallen and WWII may have had a significantly different outcome. Go women!
My sister's a virgin and so is my mom. For 600 pesos I let you get on!
I don't want to get on. I'm scared of sexual contact.
But I'm willing to hold the camera if you let me sit in the corner and jerk off.
I haven't laughed that hard in a LONG time.
🙂 Sit over there next to Bill Clinton.
It's true. I am gay. The fact is, I am jealous of women. I want to be a woman. I apologize to every woman here. You DESERVE to be in the front lines. I would be PROUD to have you in the front lines. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to do some research on transgender operations.
This 13 year old GIRL could lift you over her head.
http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/01/25/teen-girl-weightlifting-phenom-abbey-watson
I hope you never run into her on the street.
No man can out swallow me!
Shaney I heard you cut it off to become a woman cause you didnt want anything hanging around you couldnt lick.
That is why I have adopted Boy George's battle cry "I can lick anyone, anywhere!"
No, "Keep our Military strong and tough"--I cut it off so you would stop trying to swallow it whole.
ATTENTION EVEYONE!
I'M A PATHETIC PIECE OF CRAP!
Feel free to park your penis in my mouth while you wait!
OH!
CAN WE HAVE A ROUSING DISCUSSION ABOUT HOW BAD I SUCK AT LIFE?
Yes!
Right after we talk about how MUCH OF A LOSER I AM!!!!!!!!!!!!
NO, NO.... I'M THE BIGGEST DOUCHE THERE IS HERE!!!
Pardon me. I am schizo.
I am too.
Women rule!!!
Oh, and men rule my world in bed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Men rule my world in bed too!!!!! I love you, Shaney!
Follow me boys! 3 holes, no waiting!
Nobody'd follow a tool like you.
Wow! That is very good. I have to remember that one for the battle cry of the females in my unit.
I'll follow you Shaney!!! You can play with my twinkie anytime!!!
Hey, "Loyal", I thought we were going to hook up, what are you doing with Shaney?!!!
You know the difference between a tribe of pigmies and a women's track team?
One is a cunning bunch of runts
the other is a running buch of .....
And you say you don't hate women. What did mommy do to you? She must have been harsh and abusive. You can get help dealing with these issues. I strongly recommend therapy.
Why would I take the opinion of a gyno.
I put the K in Kunt.
@Keep our Military strong and tough-Please come over and play with my twinkie tonight. It's time you meet my mother. I live in her basement.
Keep our Military strong and tough,
Relax. There are still so me women are weaker than you. I hope this makes you feel good. Now go to bed, curl up fetal-style and let it all out.
Spreak English
I though you feminist never thought men were stronger. I am long past my prime and still stronger than 90% of the women out there. I bet you would wet your panties if you were faced by a girl scout.
I don't wear panties.
I'm a thong kinda guy.
Neither do I. I wear burlap.
@ "Keep our Military strong and tough"--Will you come over and play with my twinkie tonight?! I love all your rough talk on these boards, you big fat, tub-of-lard of a man! Yes, everyone, i'm gay and I'm proud of it!!!
Had no more trouble with the female than male soldiers in Afghanistan. Don't see why it matters if they are closer to combat officially or not. Plenty have died over the past decade in our 360 degree wars.
Dear Keep our Military strong and tough,
You have issues old man. It is sad that you have such low self-esteem and this makes you feel threatened by women who are stronger and more capable than you. I am sure you are good at something!
The only thing this lame excuse for a man is probably good at is sitting in front of the tv eating waaaay too many burgers and passing waaaaay to much gas.
And being an ATM for a lazy woman?
I bet you dont even know what the chemical name for that gas is do you? Anal Oxide and you call your self a soldier.
I am not nor have I ever been intimidated nor threatened by women. I am a realist and I have seen our military waste resources just to accommodate women. You had better be watching China the are coming with about a million men we could not handle them when we had a real military how are we going to take them on now?
By the way one of the people I admire most is Helen Keller.
You should be impressed, man!
You got a pothead to call you out on a CNN website!
That's some serious business right there!
Remember that in her youth she was a gunfighter. She was known as Dead Eye. 🙂
She doesn't admire you. Not surprising that the one woman you "admire" happened to be deaf and blind. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I guess that is the only type of woman who would ever want you. She would have to be deaf and blind!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
I like that it was funny. You know how she burned her fingers, trying to read a hot waffle iron.
You will feel threatened by me when I show up at your door with my machete.
If we were in a war zone and I had to choose between you and Annie Oakley to protect me, you had best believe I would go with Annie.
Dr K I admired her because of her intellect, obviously something you would not understand.
Puff so you would choose a dead woman to protect you? I think she is rolling in her grave to think you admire her.
To many men think manhood is associated with war when most women can fight just as well; they just don't because they are smarter then men, they control men in every way in most societies as well for this same reason. It should be about time that; not just a few, but most combatants are women on the front line as they should earn their supremacy. It should"t just be empowered and sometimes un or under employed young men who think by following orders and braving some mindless conflict they can have some dignity in life. Most of the rules for war are more comforting for women then men anyway as is they were tailer made for them. A women for example would know that if pinched on the posterior by an enemy combatant that he could be subject to a war crime violation, unlike violence which is not considered of much importance against even unarmed children unless the numbers reach into the thousands.
If you guys haven't noticed yet, "Loyal" and KeepMilitaryStrong" are both idiots. Ignore them. They are both fat, lazy morons who get off on putting women down because his mommy pulled them off the tit too soon. What these idiots don't realize is that other countries have women in the military who are tough, sharp-shooting killing machines and this country needs all the help it can get. These two idiots use old, worn out excuses like strength, "nagging" and menstruation as a reason to keep women off the front lines, but because they are stupid, they don't realize there are some BIG, strong women out there who don't really nag or complain about serving-they want to serve. And menstruation can be taken care of in many ways. But, of course, these idiots wouldn't know that because neither one has been near a woman in years.
Uh, because they're valid reasons.
But I'm glad a civilian punk like you has all the answers.
Ever been mortared before?
Taken fire?
No?
She was shot at in the NCO club by her jealous lover.
Hey "GayLeg", shut your ignorant trap. No one was talking to you, punk.
I've noticed you've called everyone who disagrees with you gay.
What'cha hiddin' buddy?
Please, does anyone out there have an extra battery or some falsies? I need help!
Both of them and myself had you several times last night on your porno video cam site!
Time to go to bed! You have school tomorrow and if you don't earn your GED then you will have to have your baby somewhere else!
I served more than two decades in the US Army. I am neither an old man nor someone who is intimidated by ANY woman. I had almost as many female bosses as I had males bosses, and I didn't judge their capabilities on their gender. With that said, I will tell you this. The military lowers established standards in order to appear more accommodating to gender. The article above mentions that some of the jobs women can currently hold do not allow them to accumulate the crucial credit for combat duty that is needed for promotion to higher grades. To that I say why must someone have been in combat to get a promotion? Serving in a combat area is not something that military members even have control over. It depends on the job, their unit, etc. And having simply served in a combat zone doesn't automatically equate to any level of leadership. It shouldn't be automatic. And it is, unfortunately. However, but the same token, women (at least in the Army) have lesser physical fitness requirements that garner them a favored look for promotion. While they make get an excellent evaluation for performing at a certain level on a physical fitness test, their male counterpart will likely get something more like "satisfactory" for performing the same.
My second concern relates to some of the physical limitations most women will and do possess relative to a job that requires the type of physical strength and endurance that is not normally resident in the female frame. The article mentioned "artillery mechanic", "field surgeon", etc. Hey, if a woman is physically capable of performing the job, then I say she SHOULD be subject to some of the same jobs as men. But mechanic of any kind suggests that there is some strength required. And if it is required and isn't possessed, then the job either doesn't get done, or someone else does it, while the one physically incapable gets paid all the same.
Serving in the military should be open for everyone, but no matter how the most liberal person wants to slice it, women are women and men are men. Some women are behemoths and physically capable of carrying a 180lb male soldier with full battle gear through hell and back. Others couldn't carry an extra pair of boots to the mess hall. Sure the same can be said of men. But not in the high numbers and percentages as women.
Women in combat–sure why not, let's have equality! Now just make women have to register for the draft when they turn 18 like we do.
Well said.
Ha Ha!
Only if they can malinger out of the patrols they don't want to go on!
Agreed Dylan. If women want to be in combat, then before they're let into the military AT ALL the physical fitness standards should be adjusted so that they're required to do the exact same, physically, as men. Women don't have to do as many pull ups, don't have to lift the same amount of weight as men during basic, etc. etc. If they want TRUE equality, they should do everything men do in the military just as good as the men do it.
But anyone serious knows feminism was really about retaining the advantages of being women while appropriating the advantages of men, so chances are feminists will complain if the physical fitness standards are equalized. Yeah, sure, you women want equality...
Keep our Military strong and tough:
You are a very angry and sad man. I believe this is due to the fact that you were raised by parents who never allowed you to be in touch with your feelings and forced you to be a "tough" and "strong" boy. Even Jesus Christ "gave way to tears" and "wept" openly. You are NO Jesus Christ. It is about time you let yourself have a good cry. I am sure you are overdue for one since childhood. Then you can let go of your envy of women and truly be a man.
No No doc I got in touch with my feeling every night as a teenager and still do some times even now, ummmm.
Keep our Military strong and tough,
M-erbating does not count as getting in touch with your feelings. I think you need to attend a male-bonding camp, and really have a good cry. Let go of the hatred of your emotionally stifled parents and become a real man. Mommy and Daddy kicked the rocker years ago. It is time you move on.
To all of those who are getting bent out of shape about this (talking to you there keep military strong) These roles are not combat MOS's. There going to work on the tanks...not operate them, missile batteries are not used in the conflicts that we will be fighting in the future and if they are there not deployed on the front lines, and if I get shot and on the helo I wouldn't mind at all if the last words or sights I see is some cute woman trying to save my life.
Do they not work on tanks in combat??? Does it not take physical strength to do many of these jobs???
If a tank needs basic maintenance the tank crews work on them and if they need new tracks, engines etc etc then they are moved to the rear. And iv'e seen plenty of women capable of physically demanding jobs.
Yeah, okay boot.
Get back to IPAC.
Now THAT is funny! 🙂
Boot? lol yeah...0311 with 3 tours in Iraq and another in Afghan. Try again.
Oh yeah?
Who with?
And you can bet your bottom dollar I'm gonna check.
ATBN and 2/9
Women should not be in combat. Neither should men.
Excellent. Best post of the night. My complements.
It's "compliment", Douche.
Sorry for the spelling. My girlfriend was swallowing to earn her keep.
Loyal ignore shaney she is a nag.
Stop government sanctioned terrorism against medical marijuana patients. For God's sake please STOP.
I got your "nag" right here, punk.
Shaney you are such an original youve got us all scared. I have never heard that before. You had better take you tampon out before you douche.
@KeepMilitaryStrong-Why don't you pull the dildo out of you @ss that "Loyal" put in there before you reply to me.
Shaney you have such stinging wit it just burns to bone.
You all are close. There are times when we need MEN in combat but we have not seen those times since WWII.
I really think you're gay.
I am one happy Hetero and I served before purse swinger like you were allowed.
You are so gay.
Shaney; please don't talk when your mouth is full.
You are as gay as gay can get.
well, if women want equal this is equal. want to be in the military be ready to dodge bullets and risk being sent home in a body bag. if it were truly equal then women would be draft eligible.
they dont want equal work for equal pay. Look at college sports they insist on their own scholarships when the are half the athletes of the men. While men died in Vietnam all the feminist were home powering their touches and whining about how bad men were treating them. How many men had their lives interrupted because of service yet it were the sob feminist who claimed they were treated unfairly. No they cant handle the truth but they sure can insult those telling it.
oh you are doing plenty of insulting for everyone.
Cheddar rapids I will paraphrase Harry Truman who was a real soldier and a Patriot unlike the dweebs we have had since Kennedy. You think I am giving you hell but I am giving you the truth and YOU just think its hell.
I know what your problem is "KeepMilitaryStrong"--You were dumped hard by women. There, there, you fat loser. I think it makes you good to put women down. The fact is, women haven't been given the same opportunities. Everything that you're spewing is skewed and you know it. Women couldn't go to Vietnam. I had family who served in Nam. You need to shut your ignorant fat pie hole.
Did they serve in the mess hall or the house of pleasure?
@Loyal--If it was the house of pleasure, you would know all about it, Gaylord.
In fact women did serve in Vietnam and quite honorably as nurses you need to read a little on the subject. They suffered emotionally just as much as the men. These women were not a home burning bras unlike the feminist slime.
Yes I was there. I most likely met your mother several times.
Was mom good and was she still a virgin.
Yes! And she was still when she moved to Mexico and set up her donkey show!
You two gay gentlemen have lots in common, maybe you could exchange numbers off line.
It really irks these women who are wantabe men when they know they are not respected. You see I dont respect you and there is NOT thing one you can do about it. Pass all the laws you wish but fact are facts, you cant protect your selves so what makes you think you can protect our country?
Hey Douchbag, I don't think women respect you either. The fact is mommy didn't let you nurse long enough and now you hate women and I'm certain the feeling is mutual.
You are most likely bitter because you don't have enough to nurse from on your chest. Babies are often allergic to foam rubber, so the future does not look good either.
Frankly my dear I dont give a damn. No I do not HATE women but I absolutely have no respect for feminist.
I dont think they care either, im sure they dont see you as anyone worth bothering about.
don't forget you're mom is one of the feminist you're bashing about. your mom left you early didn't she? idiot.
Don't worry, they don't care what you think.
And why don't you try attacking a military woman and see how much she can't protect herself.
Then why are they trying to form the Fistyourbottom Brigade?
I knew you were gay, "Loyal" and now you just proved it.
So Shaney.... you troll looking for gays? Sorry, none here. However, if you have a bass, you could have a good time with yourself.
I am a man, Douchebags-a real man, unlike you two. I respect women and I believe in equality. You two are the reason women don't like men. Hell, you two are the reason men hate men! F*king losers, the both of you.
If you are so important then why havn't you been assinated?
@Loyal-WTF are you talking about, idiot?! Don't bother answering... You are just stupid, that's all.
Keep our Military strong and tough:
Even YOU are precious. Believe it or not.
Not really.
Yes, you are. Now go to bed and have some sweet dreams.
Sounds like yo mamma done did you wrong.
Keep our Military strong and tough"
Does it make you feel less manly to know that there are women who are stronger than you, little boy?
LOL!!!! Yes, "KeepMilitaryStrong" wishes he were a woman. That's his real problem.
Retired USN, and proud to be a woman. This guy is just an angry little man who must be feeling insecure. Usually when folks lash out in ugliness it is because of their own unhappiness. Just the way some folks are wired. His tax dollars help to fund my retirement so I will graciously thank him for his contribution. Keep America strong and exercise your right to vote, no matter who you are.
You can tell if a woman is ready for combat or for bed very easily. Stick your hand down the front of her pants. If it feels like a horse is trying to eat oats out of the palm of your hand, then she is not thinking of combat.
Loyal Democrat wishes he were a woman.
You would probably feel like a horse was lunging after sugar cubes and then try to charge $5.00.
China has the right idea about the benefit women have to society.
You obviously don't know what it feels like to stick your hand down there.
As a publicity agent for the all girl band "Finger Bang", yes I do. Also, by looking there you can see why God is Mexican when you see that taco.
Are you sure you weren't just fooling around with a horse? Because you sound very confused and clueless.
Well, she was a nag! 🙂
I think it would be great if we sent in an all woman SEAL team to kick Iran's leader in the ass.
Then we could do a repeat in Syria.
That would be excellent! It would hit them mentally and put them to shame. Good idea.
Yup all we could finally find a use for all the pisxn and moaning cause that would bring them to their knees. Woman seals thats the answer.
@LoyalDemocrat and KeepMilitaryStrong--LOL!!!!!!! I would LOVE to see you two FAT @SSES anywhere on the battlefield. Just keep spewing your ignorant crap. You only make us men look bad. The fact is that both of you would probably get your douchey @sses kicked by these tough women. What a couple of idiots. Maybe you two should get together and come out of the closet already.
Can you take all 8 balls in a pool game at one time? I saw your mother do that in Mexico one time. Then they brought on the donkey!
@Loyal-No, you're mistaken, that was the day your mother came by and took over the whole operation.
I'm just pissed that some dumbass Army Major (McCarthy) said "These women are a cut above the rest of the ARMY" I guess his eyesight is bad and he didn't notice the Air Force, Navy, and Marine uniforms directly behind him or the AIR FORCE female Captain that was interviewed as well. Typical Army... Everyone else does their job for them and all they can spout off about is how much they're doing.
It is a sad day when a Nation sends its most precious resource – women – to war, to die in some faraway place, in some stupid war started by men with macho minds. I am thinking of LBJ who was going to show Ho Chi Min who is boss and his ilk.
I have a better solution: Let's have a woman President, an all women House and Senate and an all female Supreme Court. Let's put all the warmongers into the military and they can go fight using their own money. I am sick and tired of wars and rumors of wars promoted by the Cheneys of this Country. Enough already.
If you don't think women are precious, you try to carry a baby for nine months and then give birth.
I am so sick of all the sexist, moronic and just plain bizarre comments from most of the men here. The fact is, most of you are weak, ignorant, fat moronic little men who sit in front of the computer most of the day and probably haven't been within a mile of a woman (a real woman, not your usual digital one) in years. Shut your ignorant pie holes now. For the women: Not all of us men are @holes like the men here.
Thats it you got me you called me a sexist and boy that hurts. Please do the same when you meet the Taliban I just know they will quit on the spot.
If you kill yourself, no one would care.
@Keepourmilitary-Touched a nerve, huh?! You're a douche and you know you're a douche. You're only connection to humans is on the Internet. There, there, mama's boy.
You know how the Taliban brain wash women, the jump on their douche bags.
Ha.. your name is "Shaney" and you think you're a real guy? Even without the extra effeminate "ey" at the end, Shane is hardly a man's name.. sucks to be you
um.. your comment makes NO SENSE whatsoever. These women are choosing to go and would like to be promoted. What the hell does women being "precious" have to do with anything???? Men are "precious" too.
Please don use precious and men in the same sentence.
Your mistake is to think that all women are a most precious resource. When women refuse to be mothers then they are no more precious then men are precious.
A nation's most precious resource is its CHILDREN. Without children there is nothing to fight for because there is no future for such a country. If women want to be bullet sponge, it is their right to choose to be bullet sponge. However, the descendants of women who stayed home and raised many children will someday exterminate the Feminist's beloved one and only child descendants.
It is not a happy future, but the Feminists can either die in battle, or watch their progeny be outnumbered and destroyed.
I'll agree to sending Cheney to war. He can take his buddy Rummy with him.
In fact, I'd send every Neo-Con. Come back when you've fixed everything.
Joining the military is optional. If women want to serve in combat, then they should be able to do so. The policies wouldn't have been changed if women did not ask to serve in this capacity.
Reading this thread makes me hate men. I know this is not an accurate representation of the populous, but you guys are so dumb its sickening. I hope there's a rat infestation in your house + one crawls up in bed with you while you're asleep.
You are most likely ugly and lonely. You can be popular if you are creative in bed.
Hey dude, did you check your hands lately, hair is growing out of your palms.
Hey "Loyal Democrat"--Let's tell everyone what you really are: A fat, lazy, stupid Republican who lives in his mommy's basement and who couldn't qualify to be in ANY military service. The women would all kick your fat @ss! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Women pay me. They want something other than a battery boy.
The good thing about a woman injured in combat is that she can be quickly moved if you pick her up like a bowling ball.
Right, @Shaney, that "Loyal Democrat" name means right wing extremist.
Also, Thanks @ Steve.
If reading the thread makes you hate men, think of how much worse it will be for the women suddenly serving in male centric MOSs.
Right on! Men are so dense it is unreal, especially when it comes to strong women!! I guess they feel threatened.
Is that hair pie?
The reason for this change is to allow females to advance to generals in the upper echelons. They will not be in actual combat roles, but as fake arm chair generals, will be able to direct the real combat soldiers and make them ineffectual. This is another plot by the left to destroy the military.
That is exactly what are, a woman hater wicked fairy.
Bang on.
They cant protect them selves from Rape how they helx they gonna protect the country??????
Please keep in mind that just because you can speak (or type in this case), that doesn't mean you have a valid point. You're an idiot and, unless you've served (and served with women in this case), then you have absolutely no argument. Even if you did serve, you still have no room for argument. Do us a favor and make sure you don't procreate.
I served with women. All they were looking for was a way to find a man to be their ATM.
@Angie, don't let the jihadis get you mad. They're obviously very lonely.
You probably shouldn't post anymore until you have a viable intellectual argument. Just trying to save you from embarrassment.
Angie, surely you are not suggesting that we sterilize people, that is cruel and unusual.
While American Feminist women are playing soldier, the Taliban & Chechnyan women are giving birth to and raising sons who will more than happily capture and "marry" enemy women. You can shoot as many Taliban men as you want to satiate your blood lust, but the Taliban women are raising up the next generation. Who is raising our next generation?
There has not been another WW3 in Europe because they just don't have the population to fight that kind of war again, but when you compare the American 3rd generation immigrant & onward birthrate to that of America's enemies, you realize; the people like the Taliban can fight every year and replace their loses no matter how horrible they are, because their women are having 8 children each.
Angie why do women have to have their own league in sports??? Cause they are slow and not very strong!!!
Tree you have hit the nail on the head while angie wants to play with men she fails to realize the important role women have in society and that is family. If she would read a little on history especially the Spartans she would see what real strong woman really were. Angie you might notice that the 300 were ALL male.
Ah sweet cheeks. I ask a fair question and you get your tampon twisted. Now answer me.
Of course Angie dont get you little feelers hurt, MY POINT EXACTLY.
@Keepthemilitarystrong--You are the reason women hate men. You are also the reason women have abortions. Shut your ignorant pie hole. There's a saying that applies to @holes like you: "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
You are so cute Shaney poo when you are angry. Just answer my question ah but you cant you can only sling feminist crap. You can never be the soldier that men can be any more than they can give birth.
You are repeating yourself. Do you need a man to do your typing for you as you are too lazy?
If I were writing a novel may be I would take the time but this is good enough for who it is intended. All I ask is a logic answer to my questions but as with most liberals and feminist they sling crap when the dont know shix.
I think everyone forgets that women have been serving along side the men for years. We aren't just medics and admin anymore. In 2002 Air Defense opened up to women and guess what we proved ourselves as Radar Operators towing radars and emplacing them with our male counter parts. Again Air Defense opened up even more in 2008 allowing women to serve as Avenger Crewmembers. And yes women can lift and fire stinger missiles.
Yup and we cant even kick butt on a few camel jockies, How many of you have heard the new Navy commercial explaining how they may save a life some where or help build a school for the needy, God I am so happy we didnt have this nave when we fought the japs.
My last deployment 4 out of 5 of the females in my company of about 25 were having sex with anybody and anything (3 of those 4 were married).
Most American women are Feminist. This means that they don't want to stay home and take care of their family. This also means that our birthrate is lower than that of those who hate America.
Taking women out of the home and placing them in the measurable economic system causes an artificial bump in GDP, making their previously unmeasured effort measured. However, their effort has now been redirected away from caring for a future generation, sacrificing the future for productivity today. This occurred in Japan after world war two, massive GDP growth that made everyone think that they would take over the world, now Japan has 2 lost decades with divorce being more popular than weddings and 30% of Japanese not interested in any kind of relationship. The Japanese population is shrinking, so is that of Europe and Russia. This is the result of Feminism. There is an equal and opposite reaction to every reaction.
Women can be soldiers, but biology says that they should be mothers. Osama Bin Laden had 63 siblings from 4 mothers, an average of 16 children per women. Western (feminist) countries have an average birthrate of 1 to 2 children per woman. In a few generations, the Feminist armies will be outnumbered and out gunned. Those women fighting on the front lines will be killed or captured by the sons of women who stayed home and raised children.
Terrible decision. Women need to cook and clean and be barefoot and pregnant. I'm not a progressive I'm a conservative and I'm right and the person that decided to have women closer to the front lines is Evil.
War isn't great for parents, that's true, but a girls gotta do...
@Tree-Spoken like the true right-wing, Christian, Republican tea-bagger that you are. Being a feminist is no more detrimental to society than men who are stay-at-home dads. The world is changing and traditional roles are changing. Women, if they desire, can still have a military career and a family. Men do it all the time. Your ignorant, sexist comments only inflame the situation.
Actually, he's right. I didn't believe it myself til I researched the numbers, but his point is valid. This is exactly what happened to Japan...
The difference between you and I- I did my research BEFORE I commented.
I did not advocate for anyone to do anything, I stated logical conclusions, the truth hurts.
You are spewing what you think are insults at me. Is that because you could not find fault with my logic?
I am not a christian or a republican.
Is your favorite store about the little Dutch boy who stuck his finger in the d*yke?
Make that "story" and not "store". My girlfriend is hard at work right now earning her keep.
@Dan, no he's wrong. Wrong to blame those numbers on feminism. Its a ridiculously specious assertion.
I know about that recent Japanese Sex study. Its just a pop culture thing. Its a weird sampling, just the latest funny poll numbers. No biggie.
I'd have no problem staying at home IF the man was able to adequately support the family without my financial assistance.
Good point, Boo.
Wow! I guess someone needs to learn to read and write from all the bickering on this page. The article addresses, (some), Military Occupational Specialties will be available to women. Having served in Afghanistan, I have seen women fill many roles and were in harm's way as same as their male counterparts. This has been occuring for many years. The combat specialty MOS will not be available to female soldiers at this time. I guess most of you missed that part. As far as being mechanics or crew members, well most of those positions are not directly involved in close combat unless the attack or ambush happens enroute to the location. So, if the howitzer fires or the tank is able to engage the target who really cares if a man or woman turned the wrench to get it to happen. Is it really that important to some the try and complain about something that has been happening all along. Allow progress to happen. I have seen both men and women able to perform the same task. For the record, yes most men are stronger physically than most women. However, women can endure more pain. If you don't believe me men, try passing a kidney stone. Those who have know what I am talking about. We can compare these beliefs all day, but until you have been there and seen all of this take place, try not to judge who is better. Until then, give both our military leaders and senate leaders some credit. Progress must move forward, not back to the stone age.
Good. I just took a round in the leg. My femur's broken.
You're gonna carry me, my flak and kevlar, and my gear to an emergency EVAC point.
That's more than 200 lbs.
Hurry up. I'm bleeding out.
I'll take your flak and kevlar, and whatever gear... or I could take you. What's your priority, Bleeder?
My gear. Or, you could be STRONG ENOUGH to get it all.
But you can't. Because you're weak and pathetic.
Time to attach? Ohhh sorry. I have cramps. You men will have to do my job while I go shopping and watch Opra reruns on cable TV.
make that "attack" not "attach".... even though there is truth to both.
You are the reason women hate men. You are also the reason women have abortions. Shut your ignorant pie hole. There's a saying that applies to @holes like you: "Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
Shaney.. as Bill Clinton taught us... it is better for women to keep their mouth open,,,, only swallow this time and be useful.
Guys who dissaprove about this have to much time on their hands and just want to get a reaction out of woman. Keep crying about it because i think it is funny. Woman rule !!! haha Get over it.
"front lines" a term that no longer has relevance, there are no front lines, the lines are blurred, combat occurrs everywhere
I agree with your statement. Most people don't bother reading the entire anything anymore so that is what drives the conversation most of the time. I only disargee with one thing you said. I have trouble believing any decision the Senate (or House) come up with.
I had to serve with women in hostile areas. It took three men to look after each one as they were always complaining and coming up with reasons not to do their job. They were no different than in the states, they were just too lazy to pull their own weight. The only benefit they could bring is due to their three holes and two hands. Put them in the fingerbang brigade and have them improve the moral of the men who fight and the d*ykes.
You are %100 right!
The females in CONUS are bad enough. Grade A malingerers.
That crap doesn't fly in country. And it can be prevented by using A LITTLE COMMON SENSE.
you are either a s3xist pig or a m0ron. Pick one.
Are you from Holland? D*yke?
"Loyal" hasn't served a day in his life. He's a little punk trying to act like a big man here, but he's really a fat, lazy moron who gets off on putting women down because his mommy pulled him off her tit too soon.
Women can fire a gun or a tank or a missile launcher or fly an airplane or stealth bomber just as well as anyone else. Therefore, they should be allowed on the front lines. It's pretty simple.
If only it were that easy. Too bad they cant handle it when someone says their butt looks nice.
Not true. The whole airplane smells like tuna.
Or in your case, "Loyal"--Booze and regret. LOL!!!
it sends shivers down my spine to think of the consequences if one of them were to be caught alive by a hostile force on the frontline... women in combat units may be being prepared mentally for such things...but why dis when u have the option of staying home and faithfully taking care of your family members...!!
Such extreme views here! I know there are many posting who have never served or served several years ago (and not during the present conflicts) so the idea of "a front" has some meaning to them; however, those who have served during these present conflicts know that women have not been separated from combat-we have been in combat since the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq began-IEDs, ambushes and mortar attacks are non-descriminatory-dragging a 6'6, 250 pound man out of a kill zone in an Infantry Company is no different than having to do the same in a Signal Company, Military Intelligence team or anything else (and women have been in the position to do this for the past few years).
If you read the article, you would see that they plan to open up positions to females at the BN level (not the Company or the Platoon, or open up combat arms jobs to females). All this means is now the females working at these jobs are legit (women have been working in these positions for quite a while but as attachments, not directly assigned) and that those who would like to learn about the basics of military tactics at this level are now able to do so.
Don't worry-these jobs that recently opened up to us, such as Signal and Intelligence Officers, are not "Infantry" jobs. There are probably women who would desire to be Infantry, Armor, etc-but that is a different subject entirely, not related to this article at all!. The women who seek out these newly opened jobs are not doing so for some political/sociological/feminist agenda, it is because Soldiers know that the fight at BN and below is the bread and butter of our military mission-everyone should start out or serve at this level to understand the importance of small unit missions-it is how we are all trained but not all of us have been given the opportunity to pursue it. We really do care about accomplishing the mission and would appreciate the opportunity to be at the BN level to ensure we are able to understand the fight at the level where" the rubber meets the road".
All the arguments about females and showers and personal hygiene are quite ridiculous-again, if you haven't been in the current fight, you would not know that there small areas called COPS where oftentimes there are a handful of females there (usually intelligence teams) with an infantry BN and also, in some cases, units from the Iraqi or Afghan army. The females I know in these places had no problems with their situation-be it hygiene or otherwise. It is a hardship, for sure, but it is for the men at these locations as well. And, worrying about women's menses-really? Women who find themselves in these situations know how to take care of themselves-we have been doing it for a while-give us some credit! Though not all of us have been at these remote locations, there are several of us who have found ourselves on field exercises in excess of 30 days with no shower-not ideal but it is what it is-and we have learned to adapt.
Please, before you make such harsh judgements about the state of our military,and before you read too far into this article, talk to some people who have deployed recently and found themselves in these positions (as one of the only few females in a remote location). This change is not that big of a deal! Those of us who would appreciate such jobs know they are hard jobs for us but are willing to accept the challenge because the experience would be well worth it.
I generally don’t post to these online discussions because for the most part the comments are- well, ridiculous. However being as you, at least seem according to you writing, to be a person who has been “there” I would like to take a few minutes to disagree completely with you. However I would like to say that women, should have a role in supporting the defense of their country and this is not some blindly sexist rant.
First and foremost- credibility I am not some idiot who is going to lie and say I am Navy Seal Delta ninja with 15 deployments, but I am a grunt junior officer in the Marines who has conducted combat operations in the clearing of Marjeh and on my 2nd deployment, Sangin. So I have a pretty good idea of the base line for what is required in training for and executing combat.
First your statement about hygiene, yes and no, on SOME company and above locations there are basic facilities that enable women to live there, however the majority only allow at most monthly water bottle showers (due to rationing and issues with air resupply). That is why at most truly austere locations the female Marines, usually FET (Female Engagement Teams), are rotated out from each position back to a bigger base approx once a month if not every few weeks. On our first deployment we would go well over 100 days each time between water bottle showers, let alone a real one, with our FET rotating back to big bases to get clean and also prevents too much “bonding.” We send our women who are our equals back to the rear to get chow, showers (hmm how do you think that went on the grunts morale?) and return them usually to a different company to keep people from hooking up. So yes are there SOME battalion and below locations the MIGHT, MAYBE, SOME OF THE TIME support your argument- yes, but you don’t reset policies for something that happens some time, especially if we have to count on that person being there like I can count on my grunts? Also all of us dropped significant weight, I was not fat and still dropped over 30 lbs- though good for a lot the women I see in the military, especially other services, this too presents long term medical issues for when a women’s body fat become too low- these affects still not fully understood and manifest them in some women professional athlete. No to mention the psychological issues which have been imprinted in us over millions of years, the only casualties that ever bother me were kids or women, hearing a women wounded in battle cry out- literally a show stopper, what we are programmed to do (don’t be mad though its what keeps us from beating you when you piss us off). Also not to mention the social issues nowthat a group of very competitive men, who will also according to millions of years of evolution compete for your attention, pretty sure they should be focusing on the mission or bonding talking about the sweet ‘tale they have waiting for them back home- not focusing on you.
Secondly, there are women who can run and women who are strong, though I would challenge you to pull the 6’6” Marine in his full kit, you in your kit, under fire- having personally moved too many casualties though rough terrain- it is back breaking and I have a 290 pft, am 5’10” and 195 lbs. and it is tough for multiple men to move that one- usually the 2 other members of his fire team while the 4th directs them (coordinates with squad leader)/provides security. So your statement about them being the same is crap, I dare you, seriously right now go put your kit on and prove me wrong or put 60 lb ruck on and run 5 miles we can compare times and talk about how many pull-ups you do (let me know when you can do 30; we can talk), wait women don’t even do those on their pft. I can go on and on, suffice it to say, you’re wrong on that point- millions of years of evolution and thousands of years of documented history say I am right.
Let me ask you this, is your (woman’s) pride, ego, equality, more import then my Marines’ wives, mother desires to have them come home alive- ya we are on a convoy together, go team you’re one of the guys, and something happens and you can’t do what is physically required of you (last time this happened to me, my Marines had to beat open the mangled metal MRAP doors to get to the casualties; can you do that? FYI he benched 340, 3 plus times) So is your equality worth knowingly putting them at a disadvantage?
There are many, many women who are smarter, more professional than I- who can do great things for their country- I wish them nothing but the best. But is it really worth having the med evac chopper land and have some short chubby female flight crew member get out, fall on her face because she can’t run in full kit, and then not be able to help move the casualty only getting in the way (really happened that way). Wow would had been great if that was the 6’6” Marine your referenced getting out and giving aid to his exhausted brothers. So again I ask, is your equality worth putting my Marines at a disadvantage? I would surmise, no, those young Marines are America’s greatest resource- not be put at risk because you were picked last at dodge ball.
I won't get into a discussion about if women should be in combat arms jobs -that is not what the article is about. Again, this is about the ability of females to hold certain jobs at the BN level, not below. I have already made arguments for femalestto hold these jobs (which many have already served, as "attachments" but not directly assigned-a way to circumvent the system-some Commanders have already seen the potential in female Soldiers for these positions as they have served in them with no issues) but it is" new" insofar as the military and public is concerned so I understand their will be animosities with the GP on females serving in these positions.
It is interesting that females have been in combat for over 10 years yet still people doubt the validity of the female Soldier and Marine-I have a collegue who took her team to Marjah....did it suck, I asked her? "YES!", she exlaimed, but I am sure it sucked as bad as it did for all others who served there. She did well there, wasn't raped by Taliban, doesn't have any mental scars, learned a lot from her experience and taught her team the best ways in dealing with insurgency (not drama but patience and understanding of cultural norms-generally female traits, by the way).
I can assure you that women who seek out these job wish to be relevant to the battlefield, not to cause problems. seek favors or make babies. Considering this is a new order, it is likely Commanders would screen the female Soldiers who wish to go to these jobs to make sure they are suitable, which is absolutely understandable. All that we ask for is the opportunity to do well (for a unit who needs our talent) what we are already able to do well for the Army as a whole. The rest (physical, mental, etc)-will be achieved at the unit-all military people know that their requirements vary depending on where and what kind of unit they are in-no different for females-some units don't care about fitness, others, it is all that matters. We have been in these jobs and know what it means. Just getting a chance is awesome and we will not fail.
-by they way, I was always picked 1st for Dodgeball-good arm, aim and strategic selection of targets-key aspects for an MI officer 🙂
the female captain....she's AIR FORCE, not ARMY....get it right CNN!
I'm glad I'm not the only one that caught that. Due diligence, CNN, due diligence. Just because she was apparently attached to, or simply training with, Army personnel does not change the giant U.S. Air Force tape on her uniform. Not to mention Army personnel don't sew rank on ACUs and have velcro patches on the sleeves for unit patches and flag.
"Due diligence" is a legal term and does not apply to journalism. Maybe you meant "fact check" or "proofread" or "copy check".
Actually we in the Army CAN sew our ranks on the ACUs now. We have been able to do it since 14 June last year.
They cant even wear boots as you seen in the video lol, its to hard on their feet!
I'll bet they can use them to kick your faggoty ass, though.
A lot of garrison training is conducted in soft shoes these days. The mentality is that you can break yourself in combat, not in the rear.
Oh, and since we all should be treated the same, I guess women won't have a problem being drafted equally with men. Hey, it got pretty quiet, hello, hello is anyone out there? Combat isn't a game a place for social engineering; there is no engagement between human beings more violent, brutal, ruthless, merciless, unforgiving, etc, than direct combat with the enemy. There is a reason why women have been in the military for years but have not been allowed to fight in combat, it’s because the objective is to win. We are entering very, very dangerous territory in the name of equality/fairness.
Yeah it should be fun! I can't wait untill they take the first few women prisoners, and then post the gang bang on U-Tube!
Appropriate 'entertainment' for a rapist, eh Van?
The problem is that by and large it is not the feministas from the universities who end up in the military. It's the undereducated ones who are compelled by circumstances to join the military. The feminists don't really care about these women and would kick and scream if they had to switch places.
This is going to be fun to watch, timing couldn't be better the Pentagon having just released that they were 19,000 sexual assaults last year, how many more were not reported God only knows! I foresee another bumper year for rapes when they allow women in tanks, and tents with guys on the front lines for 12 month at a time single parent plans LOL!
The libs won't stop until they completely weaken this country's ability to defend and protect its self. Wow, to think that some genius thought that allowing weak (gay) men to serve openly and women to fight in direct combat against men was a recipe for success. And to those who believe that allowing blacks, Asians, and other minority males to join and fight in the US military after desegregation is the same as allowing women to fight in combat, you are idiots. You actually believe that just because a woman can shoot a gun she can go toe to toe with some of the most elite soldiers/warriors in the world. This is a recipe for an outright ASS whipping/slaughter. That's like saying because she can through a football she can play in the NFL (Not!). And we haven’t begun to talk about all the sexual harassment complaints and sensitivity training male warriors will have to go through which will further emasculate an already emasculated US male population. This policy will only succeed in getting a lot of warriors killed.
LMAO!! Wow, you have got to be the dumbest person to ever post on CNN.
What does the "D" stand for?
Is it 'dumb ass', 'dork', 'dildo', 'douche bag', 'dip-shit', 'dunce' or, 'dick sucker'?
Don't keep us in suspense – tell us now.
Wow. Let's recap the last three years:
-The F22 was cancelled and F35 scaled back so as China is building stealth fighters we're basically still flying the same jalopies Tom Cruise flew in Top Gun twenty years ago.
-We squandered a trillion on stimulus and green energy programs that completely failed, so for want of $510 billion over ten years we must reduce our Army from 570,000 to 480,000 thereby making it incapable of two regional conflicts.
-Obama was handed victory on a silver platter in Iraq but withdrew not based on conditions on the ground, but instead on a political timeline and within hours of the last US troops departure the sectarian breakdown resurrected. The State Department was supposed to keep that from happening but 16,000 employees of the Baghdad embassy are being cut in half becuase, gee, State has no mojo and the Iraqis aren't talking to them.
-There was zero shaping of the post Arab spring aftermath so now Salafist sympathizing Islamists control Libya and Egypt, and oh by the way the Suez canal connecting European and Asian markets is now surrounded by the Islamic Brotherhood in Egypt, Al Shabaab in Somalia, and Al Qaeda in Yemen.
So basically when Obama took office we were an economic and military superpower and now we're neither, but homosexuals can serve and women get to be in infantry units so everything is fairer now! Radical egalitarianism, democrats, and the fastest decline of a society in history... but we're fairer now.
There have been Homosexuals in the Military forever,and although I am straight as a arrow,I shared barracks,ate with them and worked with them, and they did their job as well as anyone else. What they do in their spare time is their own business . In the Military we all have a job,just like in the Civilian World,and a life, when we are not on duty. The subject here is not about gays but about women in combat situations.
I have no problem with women being in the military, but I'm concerned about protecting them from some of the dogs we allow to call themselves soldiers.
I've had two female friends join up in the past 10 years and each did a couple tours in Iraq. Both of them had to deal with attempted rapes within their first year of service. So I question whether the military is doing adequate enough psychological screening. It's bad enough having to fight the enemy, but what if you can't trust either side? What's worse is that for whatever reason they chosen not to report it.
I understand that this is a large generalization and that most soldiers are probably great people, it just seems like the fact that his problem hasn't been snuffed out yet should be a growing concern.
Do people realize that sheer brute force isn't the only way to measure strength? Sure men have more muscle mass and physical strength, but that doesn't mean they're better at completing physically strenuous tasks. Lifting and pushing stuff only gets you so far. There's a lot to be said for tact, innovation, adaptation, skill, etc, which women are perfectly capable of using to complete the exact same tasks.
Plus, think of things like self defense classes, which are specifically designed to teach women how to beat the crap out of guys twice their size.
Self defense classes are designed to teach women to disable opponents who are not similarly trained. This is not the case in the war.
You are soooo sexy when you talk tough.
Katie,
Your statements reflect a fundamental misunderstanding of ground combat. Among the many things that you don't comprehend are these: 1) Fighting while carrying 70-110+ lbs of gear usually in rough terrain requires a tremendous amount of brute strength and endurance. 2) Female Self-defense classes assume the opponent is untrained, when both sides are equally trained – which they will be – the advantage will go to person with superior speed, strength, and endurance – i.e. the man.
I think it's kind of like picturing a scale of general physical strength with two side by side vertical bars, one lower and one higher but with some overlap in the middle. The lower bar represents women and the higher represents men. Generally men are stronger, but you have some on the bottom rung. Similarly, women generally don't have much physical strength but some are in the top rung. Basically you have some very weak men and some very strong women. As long as the latter can pass the same physical tests required of men, I think they should be able to qualify for front line combat.
Unfortunately in other situations, the physical requirements have been reduced to allow more women to meet them.
I am ex-Military,a female,who was a Medic working stateside during Nam. I for one think that there are plenty of jobs for females that contribute tremendously and are of the up most importance to our Military. That being said, I do not agree with putting women in the front lines . Although we want equality there has to be a point where we are smart enough to realize that there are just some jobs that are better handled by men. Emotional and Hormonal differences cause us to react to situations differently . I agree with the statement made by," Rexedie,' that men may feel that they need to accommodate a female where they otherwise might not another male.
There are a many,many jobs of vital importance that are available to women in the Military. This isn't about a pissing contest but as working as a team for our Country. We don't need to be on the front lines to be effective.
Well spoken Lorena. The jobs that women do and do well, are extremely valuable. I would add, the biggest problem is not the physical ability. It's the reaction of men around women. They are either overly aggressive or over protective. When it comes to front line combat, anything that weakens the unit, causes people to die. The focus here should not be about opportunities for certain individuals to further their careers. It's about lives and how many people get to come home to their families.
"The reality of the last ten years of war however has been that many women serve in support positions–such as military police or medics–which place them in harms way."
This perception is plain wrong. I'm tired of people thinking that because someone occasionally has to ride in convoys that occasionally hit IEDs, they take the same risks as an infantry soldier.
Death from an IED still qualifies one as a 'hero', does it not?
Shouldn't qualify you as anything other than somebody who got unlucky doing their job. #Tired of people patronizing the military.
Aaron, I am in agreement with you both. Facetiousness doesn't always translate well in print.
Ok, I can understand both arguments and respect that of those who are actually serving in the military, something I have never done nor could I have, given I would never made it through PT at boot camp. That said, if a woman is not in a combat MOS and, through the unpredictable circumstances of war, is confronted with combat and performs her duties, shouldn't she get the same credit (and benefit) as her male counterparts? That is all I am saying.
They do receive the same credit as their male counterparts. The idea that women are held back by combat restrictions is false; in fact women are more likely than their male peers to be promoted to senior ranks.
In the past 3yrs, I have seen our military services being run into the ground by the current administration. Furthermore, our military leaders are acting as if they drank the koolaid. We've kicked out prized Sailors while keeping mediocre ones, we kicked out Officers while keeping those who committed misconduct, we failed to provide adequate yearly raises, we pulled all authority from Chiefs to discipline their troops, and our Generals and Admirals are following suit.
Over 200 years of pride reduced to rubble in 3 years.
Boo-fucking hoo!
You know how it goes, my friend, sh*t tends to float to the top. Unfortunately, our services are prime examples of it these days.... 🙁
Could not agree more. That is the reason I am an E8 and not E9. I won't dringk the koolaid.
Women should not serve in equal combat roles as men, as the sexes are physically different, and have different capabilities and responsibilities. Women have a role to play in the military and have served in a variety of capacities, throughout various wars. There are some roles, however, that are better served by men, due to physical and cultural considerations. Men are physically stronger, for one, which is still a consideration in many military positions. Furthermore, the capture or death of a woman, or possibly a mother, has a much more profound psychological impact on society, which is something that can easily be exploited by less enlightened foes. Please stop with the "we are all equal" For the sexes are not even close, when it come to war.
This article is very pourly written and researched. Woman do get credit for their combat experience. It is reflected in their enlisted or officer records brief. It is reflected in their evaluations and their awards (to include awards for valor). They are elligable to be awarded the Combat Action Award if they are in direct action. I am not sure where the term "Counterterrorism sniper team" but it displays a decided lack of knowledge about the military. If you are going to write an article do your research, know your information and write something worthy of the military women who sacrifice everyday for their country.
"This article is very pourly written "
Maybe you should try spellchecking your work BEFORE posting to complain....
Other nations within NATO have women serving with men. Same showers bathrooms etc. This illusion that women are more sacred then men is laughable. Had I the opportunity to serve my country by giving and receiving a barrage of bullets, I would have gladly enlisted.
To those who think that women aren't as "fit" or "skilled" have never spent time in the barracks or visiting the basic training units of our Army or Navy. Let me tell you, those little boys look just as ill fit and "unskilled" as any woman would look. The only difference is they have a penis. This appendage doesn't make you a better defender than a woman, quite the contrary, the female of the species is more deadly than the male, proven fact, women are better sharp shooters when in competition with men. We defend our country, our family, and our way of life with as much if not more passion because remember, every single one of those soldiers is the son of a woman, who will defend her young with her life. Women have been made to give life, love, and raise our sons for 17, 18, 26 years only to have them returned to us in caskets draped with the flag of our beloved country and told that it was not our place to defend nay let us send forth our sons in our stead.
Many men of the USA have long sat back and insulted us with being over sexualized in media, insulting women in power by calling them "butch" "dike" and "bitch". I wonder if their minds will change once they owe women for not just their existence, but their mortal life that was saved one day on a battlefield.
hahahahah somebody wishes they had a penis... Get back in the kitchen and shut your fat dyke mouth.
"penis. This appendage doesn't make you a better defender than a woman" very valid point its actually the testicles, which contain testosterone, which in turn give males a undeniable edge over women in combat. Sorry but sometimes dumb bitches need to go back to school.
My sister is one of those sharp-shooters you mention. I quite sure she would not argue for women in combat. What makes them accurate is the fact that they can slow their heart and breathing down more easily. This is not true in combat. It is even less meaningful when automatic weapons are in the equation.
You're holding NATO as an example to emulate??? Really??? Sorry, they're predominantly worthless, and whether or not they hold different views on women serving is irrelevant.
I have no issue with women serving in combat so long as all 18 year old girls are also compelled to sign up for the Selective Service. I knew a few pacifists who were denied student loans on account of their not signing up. Women must now also bear the full burden of equality – it is not fair to offer a choice to one person and potentially compel another.
Agreed. The requirements should be the same. However men will still be chosen primarily for frontline combat, since a) they are generally more suited to it physically and psychologically, and b) they are socially and biologically more expendable.
As a former male infantary man I wonder how female infantary women would take care of personal needs such as peeing and pooping.? We of necessagy had to do these functions in public with the rest of our unit as it was dangerous to go to the bush were the enemy would be lurking waiting on a single person away from the unit !
women poop the same way as men.
Israel has no problem with this. In Israel, a soldier is a soldier. Your MOC is chosen dependent on your physical ability and your aptitude, period.
Not true. Though Israel will assign women to ground combat jobs in a few select units, it will not deploy them to combat with their units. After the '73 war, and women KIAs, Israel realized that women in combat arms was a mistake and has not allowed women to serve in ground combat since.
Who cares what Israel does? Maybe you should move!
Excellent point. It'll be hard enough to keep the 19 year old testosterone pointed towards the eneny with these women around. Now they're suddenly dropping TROU??? Two words ... FIRE WORKS!!
I had a female 1SG (biker type) that wasn't afraid to whip it out in front of the guys.
Former trooper named Laurie? Man, you musta been ripped on a lot.
I have one problem with this article in where it states that when females get attached they don't get combat status which helps in promotion. If you go to a combat zone you get combat status period. Whether you are a desk jockey or rifleman. If you get into a firefight and return fire you get a combat action ribbon regardless of MOS. I hate when they put it like it's restricting promotions. Most combat arms MOS's promote slower than the fields open to females.
Right now, because women aren't allowed to officially be deployed in that capacity, the military says they *aren't* being deployed in that capacity because by definition they *can't*, even when they clearly are. It's military pretzel logic.
the same logic was applied to National Guard units who were deployed to the sandbox. Because they were Guard, they were just *relieving* front-line regular army, not being *deployed* front-line, thus were denied combat pay. The fight to get this corrected took years. This is the same idiotic bureaucratic BS.
All the guard guys I served with in Iraq received combat pay (aka hazardous duty/hostile fire), regardless of whether they were "relieving" someone or not either you've got your facts wrong or the person you spoke to had a moron for an S1
LIE LIE LIE. WOW
I think you're missing the point...a posting to a combat zone doesn't qualify you for the Combat Infrantyman's Badge which is basically what you need to get in order to qualify for the more senior positions. You have to be assigned to an infantry unit, be deployed and have actually engaged the enemy.
I'm from an Army family, but never have served. As a teenager, I was learly of the idea of women in combat, but over the last twenty years, I have become much more flexible to the idea. I'm hoping someone knowledgable of the military, specifically the issues surounding infantry operations, can explain to me what the issue is with women serving in combat. Ever since Panama, they have been in combat. Is it unreasonable to say that after three wars (separating Afghan and Iraq) and countless smaller operations that they haven't proven themselves? I'm not advocating a position, I want to know what the argument is for keeping them out of infantry units.
Physical fitness standards and combat-based physical fitness tests are also in the Army's agenda in the next three years. As long as a female, or male, can pull your son, or daughter, weighed down by roughly 65 lb of kit, plus their own body weight, out of the open to a more secure spot, then, I'm all for it. As the war required masses of recruits, it was necessary to cut back on some standards. Now, that the Armed Services look to cut tens of thousands of troops from their rolls, they can afford to be much more selective. I say, make it "combat practical" and not a social experiment. That's all.
Agreed. I find it interesting that practicality is actually leading to social progress; don't you?
This is just going to cause more deaths. Females are physically unable to perform as well as males, this is fact. Yes there are those out there that are faster and stronger the most men. But when a femal in the army only has to do 19 pushups vs males having to do 42 to pass a PT test there is a problem. When men have to run 15:54 and females get 18:54 there is a problem. These numbers need to be the same, we are Soldiers and need to be able to perform to the same standards. The problem is that most females in the ARMY would not be able to pass if they had to do the same amount of pushups and run 2 miles as fast as a male. Until they are required to meet the same standards keep them off the front lines.
Two of my marines are dead becaue a totally qualified female was replaced with an unqualified male corpsman. So much for your comment. Tell their widows that is was right to keep me from combat.
Wow, hard to argue with that emotional of a statement. What Co, Bn, when, where?
I really don't care what gender my corpsman is. Pull my butt out of harms way. Semper FI fieldmedik!
Bull...
Fucking...
Shit.
I agree with this. The requirements need to be the same, across the board.
However, what the article is saying is that women are already in positions on and near the front line, doing jobs that they are quite capable of doing, but because they're not officially supposed to be that close to combat they are not getting hazard pay for it. What they are proposing to do will let women who are already doing hazardous jobs get hazard pay.
I didnt see anything about pay, so much as combat recognition/credit
You clearly have no idea how hazardous duty/hostile fire pay works.
Every female service member in Iraq and Afghanistan gets hostile fire pay. EVERY ONE OF THEM. Obviously you have ZERO idea of what you are trying to talk about.
Women have already been on the front line- men who are confused about their sexuality- with a penis- thinking that they are women- have been fighting already. nothing new here. nobody knows if they are male or female. confused
What are you trying to say? If there's a point in your statement somewhere, it's not making it past your tinfoil hat.
Funny – with a name like "Tony" accusing others of being sexually ambigous. On a more general note, your post is COMPLETELY ambiguous – you make no sense and no point. If you were trying to say that men are confused about their sexuality, and that they shouldn't be able to tell which soldiers are women and which are men, then you're not only confused but you're not very bright, either. For the most part I'd wager that most 19 male soldiers are VERY sure of their sexuality – and there-in lies the rub. Being so close to a woman in the field like that, under combat conditions, will be distracting for any hetero male. And I don't care how "tough" a woman might look in uinform, every male will KNOW she's a woman.
The military can not be used as a political battlefield. Period. If females want to be MPs, medics, mechanics, fine... But for them to be a scout, an infantry(wo)man, anything heavy duty, is one hell of a task. How many women do you know, military or not, who are up for a 20 mile forced march? Spending weeks without hot food or showers?
Why would you care, particularly if a female soldier is able and can excel at the requirements?
If someone meets the requirements and is able to do the job, it shouldn't matter what's between their legs. The ability to meet said requirements, pass the training, and do the job should come first.
It's not just about physical ability. Although I would argue that it's not worth the money to train and accommodate the .0001% of women who could actually meet the physical requirements. Men, by nature, will act different around women. It's a biological fact. They will be more aggressive or over protective. The bottom line besides winning, is to bring everyone home alive and this will get people killed.
Women dont get jock itch. So they are actually better at day in, day out marching as long as they can keep up.
Yes they do. They just call it a yeast infection – it's the same as a man's jock itch.
There are unquestionably fewer women that are up to the task than there are men. But all that really means is that the physical and psychological standards should be the same for both sexes when fulfilling those roles. Denying an otherwise qualified individual merely because they are female is illogical and wrong. I can see there being circumstances of a mission where one sex or the other is needed as an actual requirement, but it should not be a blanket policy.
Has the military conducted a study to see what the effects would be? My concern would be friendly fire.
If you conducted "studies" and allowed a vote, the military would not have racial intergration yet. Soldiers, sailors, and marines will follow their orders.
The military never does a survey or ask the troops on the ground anything they ask the senior leaders who dont go on the battle field and have a liason that doesn't go on the battle field all speculation little fact
I take it you were never in the military. Not totally sure of the other services but Marines don't get to take surveys and have a hand in making all the decisions... we follow orders or people die. Crap I just sounded like Col Jessup in "A Few Good Men". Anyway. Its true. The military doesn't and shouldn't operate on a "take a poll" basis.
Why would friendly fire be any more likely to be an issue with women vs. men? (answer: it wouldn't)
Friendly fire doesn't discriminate between men, women, children, dog, cats....well pretty much anythiing. Friendly fire ain't so friendly....
Let's just, for at least a moment, set aside physical capabilities...
Anyone serving now knows how inundated we are with sexual harassment/assault training annually. Imagine having to deal with this on the front lines... just the implication of sexual harassment/assault would destroy cohesion/integrity of the combat unit.
Also, any situation where both male and female are involved, there will always be the risk of pregnancy. This happens already at deployed units not on front lines.
Do you really think those front-line soldiers/marines can afford to lose people on the line due to these issues? Again, this is risking the integrity of that? Loss of even 1 person, or the trust of each other and it's all compromised.
This is not an idictment of men or women individually, but of stupid people who make stupid decisions. In a perfect world, this wouldnt be an argument. But then again, in a perfect world we probably wouldnt be needed. Too much risk.
So women should be disadvantaged because you believe that the male soldiers are essentially incapable of controlling themselves? That sounds fair.
Fairness aside, it is extremely disturbing. If these men can't even muster up the self-control to keep it in their pants, why are we trusting them with weapons?
I didnt say anything about fair... the truth isnt always fair. Im just saying how it is. If we can figure this out, thats a huge step in the right direction.
So it's the female's fault for a fellow Soldier harrassing them...that's brilliant. Maybe if these guys actually paid attention at the training they would understand that its not just Male on Female harrassment anyways. I've worked on too many cases where guys assaulted other guys to believe the common misconception. If the female is qualified to perform the job requirements, physically & mentally, then she deserves the same opportunities as her Brothers in Arms. Don't be so stereotypical in ruling out that some females can whoop ass.
i never said it was fair, im saying it just how things are. it happens already in deployed areas that are not on front lines. it has an effect, too. Im saying it the consequences could be more costly. Are you telling me that men are equally assaulted as women.? I havent seen the numbers, but i highly doubt that. Though, I know it very much does exist. I know there are tough, capable women. But I know the nature of the prevalent problems that exist BECAUSE they are women, though no fault of their own.
This is the real problem. Now it's about opportunities and fairness. Neither of which has anything to with fighting a war or bringing people back home alive. The objective is to win, not to offer career opportunities. As a soldier, you should want whatever is best for your fellow soldier, not what's going to put another stripe on your arm.
Agreed.
Haha, maybe they should have all-female units. Then that reduces the risk of harrassment/abuse. Then again, females are brutal and are less likely to set problems aside than males. (BMT showed me this)
Funny that I'm saying this, as I am female.
Can a woman pull a 200lb wounded soldier out of harms way? Does anyone here know what the Islamic extremists would do to a captured Christian Female soldier?
Yes, I can and probably the same kinds of things that happen to male "Christian" soldiers.
No. They don't rape men, but Islam advocates rape of infidel women. Women close to the combat environment will be like an incentive program for the enemy to fight and win, because victory will mean a good time with the capturees.
And the psychological warefare potential – get ready to see videos of captured female soldiers being gang raped.
Duh.
Actually they WOULD rape men. They do it to boys all the time. Less likely, but could still happen. Frankly at least a female soldier might be able to use sex to buy herself some time for escape/rescue instead of just having her head cut ff.
I know male soldiers that cannot carry a 200 lb man. Also, there were lots of females that were outside the wire in IOF I and II....Jessica Lynch comes to mind. I don't think Islamic extremists would care either way what gender their captor is....they killed most of our soldiers they captured in Iraq.
Jessica Lynch is not a good subject for this argument. She is an example of why women should not be in combat. It took a team of Army Rangers risking their lives over her ineptness in a combat situation. She was nothing more than a media opportunity. If anything, she hurt the cause for women in combat.
They are going to torture her, just as they would a male. I would not doubt that they would inflict sexual torture on a man as well.
Canadian Women have been in combat roles for the last 22 years and there have been casualties, including 2 killed in combat in Afghanastan, I used to share your opinion however they have proved themselves to have courage under fire.
I'm fine with women in combat units, as long as they don't cause any drama. Unfortunately, in every situation in which I have served with women, they ALWAYS do. First off, as many people have pointed out, women are not men. Depite what some people seem to think, women typically are not as large, strong, or athletic as men. See the olympics if you're unsure. I've never met a woman who can fire a .50 cal mg from the hip, but I can. I've never met a woman who can carry 300+ lbs. of kit, but I can. I've never met a woman who can stay out in the field, in unsanitary conditions, for 3 months at a time, but I can. I've never met a woman who can carry a fallen comrade out of harm's way with all of their kit on, but I can. I'm not saying that women can't do these things, but I've never heard of a woman who can.
Have you met any FMF corpsmen? We pick up people for a living. We are trained to think out of the box. We have to or our marines die. I can pull a man to safety and keep him alive until we can arrange for evac. I can't shoot a 50 cal from my hip but I probably could if that was my job. I think my marines would prefer I stay focused and keep them alive. I can march as long as they can, run with full gear as long as they can, and am mentally able to withstand what they do. My only concern about "sanitary" conditions would be for my patients. You under estimate us. My marines were furious when they were not allowed to take their doc with them. They bucked it up as far as they could to keep me. Two died because I was replaced with a reservist that laid carpet for a living. Ask them if I should have been allowed to serve. Oh yeah, you can't!
Nobody screwed with our "doc". They are part of our unit and we rely on them for our very lives. I've seen male corpsmen who couldn't save a cat from a tree let alone a wounded mariine. If you can walk the walk then who cares what gender you are....
I met a woman who can bench more than majority of the guys on this planet. Apparently she stopped weight training and is actually pretty hot now.
Realist, are you writing about drama or standards? It seems like you've described standards, and I certainly hope there would be minimal and optimal standards if women were formally permitted to serve in full on combat positions.
300 lbs of kit, huh? That's interesting, considering I'm a light infantry soldier and I would say the most gear I've ever carried is 120 lbs. And I really doubt you can hip fire that .50 cal, high speed.
Fire a .50 from the hip? Give me a break. That statement alone discredits from ever even touching an M2 or carrying a pound of weight on a patrol. If you have truly spent any time with an infantry unit you know that the crap you describe most MEN can't do either.
It is irrelevant whether or not you've met a woman who can do these things. I've never met a man who can do calculus in his head, but such people DO exist.
The physical conditioning argument is tired and stupid. No one is saying that the physical requirements should be lowered for women in combat positions. Physically, women are capable of meeting these standards with the proper training. Due to partially unfounded concerns about injury and biases concerning female frailty, this training is not given to them. If they can't get through the training, they should be dropped. End of problem.
The whole hygiene argument is just plain ignorant. Women actually have more white blood cells than men. They are LESS susceptible to infection and MORE able to battle infection. This is a medical fact that can be verified with minimal research. Menstrual cycles can be dealt with by less than a pound of extra supplies. Women have been having periods since the dawn of humanity. We can HANDLE them. Menstruation does not make women more susceptible to infection unless they don't know how to use a tampon correctly.
The other arguments merely try to justify disadvantaging women because of the perceived mental weaknesses of men. That isn't just in any universe. Men need to "man up" and act like professionals instead of cavemen.
I did 6 years in combat arms and NEVER met a guy that can fire the Ma duce from the hip....what steroid pumped unit are you in? I've seen guys fire the old M60 from the hip but nothing close to a .50
Seems like a miracle then that women survived the stone age and birthed the race. What was so hygienic about that? Women are built to survive hardships. I know plenty of teen girls who've roughed it in the wilderness. Carried their own equipment. Hiked miles a day and did it for over two months. As long as the requirements are the same, they'll do fine. But this isn't even about women going into combat. This is just them taking jobs that aren't available to them now. They're already in harm's way now.
Realist? Men have got drama wired. And they do it organized, in packs...like wolves running down lambs. It isn't a women's exclusive tactic....it is a personal choice. Some women get really, really good at it and employ is as their only effective strategy. Most women are more accomplished these days. The drama mongers are not usually electing to serve in the military because then, they would have to work for a living.
Good, about time!!! Having served in combat gives people advantages in salary and career that women were never able to get because of this policy. About time we take away more discriminatory rules against women.
Its so funny that you say such things like that, cause also serving in combat is a emotional tragedy for men to endure. Not to be sexist or stereotypical men are traditional emotionally stronger in there situations. I do understand equality of gender and I am all for it. I just dont want to see the toll be a rise in suicides amongst the female soilder, so ask yourself is "career and salary opportunities" more important than their lives and emotional well-being?
But its ok that men commit suicide? Men are not emotionally stronger, their culture simply doesn't permit them to show emotions, making them less likely to seek help prior to suicide.
I think it should be a REQUIREMENT that a proper ratio of women be put on the front lines....whether they want to or not. It is their duty while serving in the military.
I dont even think you thought that idea through before typing it, would you want your wife, mother, sister, daughter on the front line?
what about your son, son-in-law, niephew, etc? Is losing a daughter worse than losing a son?
Equal opportunity, right?
interesting and logical application of affirmative action. Let women serve in the front lines. They should have been allowed since the 19th amendment
Someone was talking about a woman not being able to carry their butts ought of harms way. hell, most of the men I knew couldn't move their buddy with all of the crap they were wearing unless fear and adrenaline were helping them. Works for a woman too. Let's keep it real. Uh, 15 years in the Corps and 7 in the USAR. Hello?
I think a lot of you have no clue as to how a recruit gets their Military Occupational Specialty (MOS). Based on scores from tests, the recruit is provided a list of MOSs that they qualify for. While a recruit has to pass a minimum fitness test to join the military, there is no mechanism in which you join, then take a physical fitness test to determine what you qualify for. So, when you suggest that "as long as they qualify for it," or "as long as they meet the standards" you are advocating a complete and massive revision to the method by which recruits get their MOSs, and all while we are trying to cut the budget. Not a great plan.
what you have written here is inaccurate. There is no difference in physical fitness standards by MOS.
Dave, yes there is...I went through USMC OCS in 1992. Physical Fitness Testing (PFT) was/is an intergal part of the Officer Selection process, female candidates had to accomplish 4-8 dead hang pull ups to the male's 20; the 3 mile run set the perfect score (100 points) at 15 minutes (5 minute miles) for males and 18 minutes for females...don't say that the genders are treated equally because they were and are still not....
My statement is 100% correct. You are mistaking the words MOS with gender.
If the military wants to let women on the front lines go for it but dont say anything when they start getting blown up are worst,i have seen it alot ,myself included almost died my third time to iraq.The guess on the show talking about her role in 2003 was limited to only about a week i was there if they had of went the right way they would have been good.Stop complaining and pound sand.
hoo rah!
I could not have said it better SSG
Semper Fi brother. I have to agree, let them serve but don't listen to the mediawhen they go batcrap crazy when a woman gets killed.
Not all men are horny rapists and many women can feel safe around a group of guys it just depends who the guys are. Women can preform great tasks and preform at extrodenary levels. History has proven this in many ways and keeping that in mind, I will ask, if the women of the armed forces want to do certian jobs in the military and are fully qualified or more than fully qualified to participate then, why not let them? I think the women are capable of making their own choices and believe having the right women on a team can benifiet a team. Although I think women should be able to put themselves in those situations, it doesn't mean I fully appreciate the idea of womens casualties increasing in the U.S. military.
I think that women should not have the CHOICE of whether or not to be in dangerous situations......they should be MADE to be in those situations the same as men. If women are given a choice, then that is discrimination.
one poster (brandy) said it best.... some things are just different between men and women..... this shouldn't be about woman power... killing is a stty job... though that can be done by either sex.... anywhere anytime ...but military movements require a certain stamina... and criteria.... too much time can be wasted ....even if not intentional... a male might waste time trying to accommodate a female....where they otherwise might not.... another male...
Both wrong. The power to pull a trigger is in your finger and in your mind, not in your biceps or your balls. I have seen men crumble and women overcome....it is in the mind and heart that stamina and courage prevail. As for accomodating one another, it is every bit as likely that a soldier will fall back for his male friend as for his female one. In fact, in most situations, the females are much less accepting of aid, assistance or any kind of accomodation than a smaller or weaker male......the female has far more to prove. This I know. I am a female field grade military officer. I have been deployed four times. I have come under fire, and I will tell you, just as there are (reportedly) no atheists in foxholes, so are all of your buddies worth sacrificing for (and doing stupid shit for....) when they are threatened (not just the pretty ones...) But then again, you won't know that....
The point is it isn't brawn that is necessary to successfully complete the job...very small part of a very few situations. Not a lot of hand to hand combat going on these days, unless you consider physical assaults on women in the services by their own drunken peers.
Focus, discipline and determination are traits that men and women both share. It transcends biology. This isn't the 14th century anymore so folks need to pull their heads out of the cold dark recesses that they are tucking them into. It is about brains, technology and strategy.
Hello.....there were and are no "front lines" in Iraq or Afghanistan. When my daughter was escorting convoys in '04 she exchanged fire on a regular basis. My female aeromedical techs in Saudi Arabia were not immune to Scuds either.
Your daughter can't do anything. Guarding supply convoys is a lot different then going into a battle.
We moved form Pakistan to the uk and would never move to amerika femenists run amerika...take example form the Holly Allah and you will be stronger!!!
SAS: Are you Tough Enough.
Anyone see that? I remember how much the women kicked butt on it. The macho men dropped like flies and those female aerobics instructors carried their combat gear and themselves through hell. No complaints. They had to FORCE one woman to quit because of an infection (common). She wouldn't give up.
They did particularily well on the torture training. The MEN WERE CRYING and the women came out smiling.
Duh it's proven women are just more hard-headed and more determined and tougher than men mentally.
But it isn't going to be all fun and games, and feminists will realize what a mistake this is when our female veterans are getting raped by group of Iranian soldiers. Or getting raped by our own soldiers or our allies.
Unless a woman passes the MALE PFT, I do not want her anywhere near the front lines: you can"t carry me out of harms way stay away.
Not only can I pass the same PRT, carry you out of the line of fire, but I can keep you alive until we can evac you. Can I serve now?
When you stop lying you can. You can't do anything and you know it.
again a bucn of crap. It is about fear and adrenaline. Most of the troops I know/knew couldn't carry their buddy ought of harms way on agood day with all the crap we carry. Sorry, but that argument don't test out.
Well Jeff, you would be mistaken. I have been under fire and I did pull my patient our of harm's way. The guy did live and he was about 190 lbs. And that was in the good ole USA. If I can do it on the streets of KC I can do in the streets of Iraq. BTW, I was also under fire during a humanitarian mission for the Navy.
You want to destroy a really close military unit? Put an attractive female in it, men are stupid and aren't mature or ready to work with women. It's not the other way around.
thanks Grunt. I have similar respect for the ladies I spoke about. By the way Semper Fi, 1977 – 92 USMC, 2005 – 2011 USAR.
Would it be worth thinking about having an all female army separate from the males? I think it would eliminate a lot of problems I've read so far on this thread.
I think it would be really good to have at least 2 women in every group, not just one. Just so the women feel less on the outside. I have experience working with many different military groups around the world. I find ones where women are fully integrated do not have any of the problems mentioned here. The women really become like sisters to the men and their is respect between them all. They also trust each other with their lives and the women are not coddled.
All the anti-women theories running around here are not based on fact but the writers own issues. Fully integrated military's are safer for the women enlisted and the public. All the FACTS indicate this.
If it is the primal urge of men to protect women then why are there so many domestic violence cases? What an idealized & antiquated way of thinking....
I am a female Sergeant Major in the U.S. Army. While deployed to Iraq, our unit had female Soldiers manning a 50 caliber machine gun in the gunner position of a vehicle during convoys. Our unit also had female Soldiers conducting patrols and kicking down doors with the Marines. These female Soldiers did it with less extensive training than that of combat arms men. Women absolutely have the mental strength. After all, it is typically women who have the mental strength to deal with their family's day-to-day challenges even more so than men (mainly due to men working full time or simply not being around for their family in some cases). The question in everyone's minds is will the women be physically capable of being combat arms. When men join the Army and sign up for a combat arms job they go through the same physical exam women do. The only qualification men have to enlist in a combat arms position that women don't have is the gender. Once these men join and ship out, the Army takes care of getting these men to the physical fitness they need to have in order to become an Infantryman, Artilleryman, Tanker, etc. The same way the Army prepares men for combat (both physically and mentally) we can prepare women. I have met combat arms men who couldn't do as many push-ups as I did or who couldn't run as fast as I did in my younger days. Not all women will be cut to be combat arms just like not every man is capable of being combat arms. I say train both men and women to the same capacity. Do not lower the standards or requirements for these combat arms jobs. Let the results be the deciding factor. Other countries have women serving in combat arms, so why are American women any less capable? If anything, I believe it will end up being a good thing for all. A lot of the PTSD combat arms men are suffering from are mainly because they don't have a way to vent. Their masculine ego sometimes won't allow them to reveal their true to feelings to other men for fear of being perceived as wimps. Men tend to be less fearful of being themselves in the presence of a woman. Being able to vent and deal with their issues while having to continue on in the heat of battle will keep them mentally strong. Gender shouldn't be the deciding factor as to who can serve in combat arms. Competency and performance should be all that is taken in account.
Well said. And thank you for your service.
SGM i have to respectfully disagree with you. I think you are correct on many points I've met women in the Army that are incredibly tough. And I've unfortunately seen alot of 11B men that are garbage. However think about it this way. We conduct train up to go down range. We have to complete about a years worth of training to be qualified to do everything. SPC Jane Snuffy gets pregnant misses the entire train up goes down range and unfortunately loses her team leader slot because there was someone else that had to step in. Is that fair to her? Is it the best solution though. Men don't get pregnant bottom line. If i have a soldier who's wife is pregnant i tell him congrats and get ready to go to the field for a month. I CAN'T lose a soldier for x amount of months it would totally ruin my squad. The only answer would be to require birth control which is so barbaric its unthinkable. What we do in the Infantry is incredibly important we can't miss months of training, we have to be there day in and out.
I have been a Marine for years. I do not believe you that women are running around kicking doors. That just doesn't happen. Mostly women go on patrols to engage local women and make them feel comfortable. Anyone can go man a machine gun in a vehicle. This is not a hard job to do. When on patrol going to anywhere that enemy contact is expected the teams with women were steered away from those areas, because it was iffy if they would actually fight back and charge the enemy. As for the Army boot camp being the the same for males and females. If you had been in for a while you would know that when the army went coed training the physical standards where brushed aside in favor of academic standards to give the appearance of women being as capable as men to complete the training. Can some women go to combat. Yes. The majority cannot physically do it day in day out carrying heavy loads. There is going to be all these women allowed into combat arms for politacally correctness and weaken the fighten force because its mandatory to fill there quota for females in infantry units.
I believe the job should be appropriate to the persons's ability to perform the job. There are, believe it or not, differences between men and women. If a man or a woman is not capable physically or mentally of doing a job, they should not be doing it; if they can do it, they should not be barred. Oddly enough the military is getting pretty progressive about this.
The good thing I get from this news item is that women will be allowed formally to perform in hazardous positions, which means they will get hazard pay for the risk. Right now, a lot of female soldiers are in the same position the Guard was in a few years ago– hazardous duty, but no commensurate pay. I'm glad to see this getting rectified.