CNN's Ben Wedeman and Ingrid Formanek reporting from Tripoli, Libya –
TRIPOLI, Libya (CNN) - A potent stash of Russian-made surface-to-air missiles is missing from a huge Tripoli weapons warehouse amid reports of weapons looting across war-torn Libya.
They are Grinch SA-24 shoulder-launched missiles, also known as Igla-S missiles, the equivalent of U.S.-made Stinger missiles.
A CNN team and Human Rights Watch found dozens of empty crates marked with packing lists and inventory numbers that identified the items as Igla-S surface-to-air missiles.
The list for one box, for example, written in English and Russian, said it had contained two missiles, with inventory number "Missile 9M342," and a power source, inventory number "Article 9B238."
Grinch SA-24s are designed to target front-line aircraft, helicopters, cruise missiles and drones. They can shoot down a plane flying as high as 11,000 feet and can travel 19,000 feet straight out.
Fighters aligned with the National Transitional Council and others swiped armaments from the storage facility, witnesses told Human Rights Watch. The warehouse is located near a base of the Khamis Brigade, a special forces unit in Gadhafi's military, in the southeastern part of the capital.
The warehouse contains mortars and artillery rounds, but there are empty crates for those items as well. There are also empty boxes for another surface-to-air missile, the SA-7.
Peter Bouckaert, Human Rights Watch emergencies director, told CNN he has seen the same pattern in armories looted elsewhere in Libya, noting that "in every city we arrive, the first thing to disappear are the surface-to-air missiles."
He said such missiles can fetch many thousands of dollars on the black market.
"We are talking about some 20,000 surface-to-air missiles in all of Libya, and I've seen cars packed with them." he said. "They could turn all of North Africa into a no-fly zone."
There was no immediate comment from NTC officials.
The lack of security at the weapons site raises concerns about stability in post-Gadhafi Libya and whether the new NTC leadership is doing enough to stop the weapons from getting into the wrong hands.
A NATO official, who asked to not be named because he was not authorized to speak publicly on the matter, said 575 surface-to-air missiles, radar systems and sites or storage facilities were hit by NATO airstrikes and either damaged or destroyed between March 31 and Saturday. He didn't elaborate on the specifics about the targets.
Gen. Carter Ham, chief of U.S. Africa Command, has said he's concerned about the proliferation of weapons, most notably the shoulder-fired surface-to-air missiles. He said there were about 20,000 in Libya when the international operation began earlier this year and many of them have not been accounted for.
"That's going to be a concern for some period of time," he said in April.
Gilles de Kerchove, the European Union counterterrorism coordinator, raised concerns Monday about the possibility that al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, based in North Africa, could gain access to small arms, machine guns and surface-to-air missiles.
Western officials worry that weapons from the storage sites will end up in the hands of militants or adversaries like Iran.
The governments of neighboring Niger and Chad have both said that weapons from Libya are already being smuggled into their countries, and they are destined for al Qaeda. They include detonators and a plastic explosive called Semtex. Chad's president said they include SA-7 missiles.
An ethnic Tuareg leader in the northern Niger city of Agadez also said many weapons have come across the border. He said he and other Tuareg leaders are anxious about Gadhafi's Tuareg fighters returning home - with their weapons - and making common cause with al Qaeda cells in the region. Gadhafi's fighting forces have included mercenaries from other African nations.
The missing weapons also conjure fears of what happened in Iraq, where people grabbed scores of weapons when Saddam Hussein's regime was overthrown.
Bouckaert said one or two of the missing artillery rounds are "enough to make a car bomb."
"We should remember what happened in Iraq," he said, when the "country was turned upside down" by insurgents using such weaponry.
There have been similar concerns in Afghanistan, where the United States provided thousands of Stinger missiles to the Afghan mujahedeen when they were fighting the Soviets in the 1980s. The United States has spent hundreds of millions of dollars trying to buy them back, fearful that they would fall into the hands of terrorists.
CNN's Emily Smith, Tim Lister, Joe Sterling and Larry Shaughnessy contributed to this report
OMG,I didn't blame the NTC,but I don't understand the Mission of CIA,M16 and NATO, is mission completed or are they have a blind EYE,wow not only the Missiles what about a lot of armored vecheiles pass 3x to Niger. God Bless Libiya, is there any information about the Mustards??????????
Check it out, they are already on eBay.
Yeah that is a great way to get on a national watch list, along with your ebay name, email, home address, phone number,,,,,next of kin, friends....
Everybody on this blog needs to calm down, take their assigned prescription medications and take an afternoon nap.
The SA-24 identified in this misleading video clip are not equivalent to man-fired Stingers! They require a mounted launch tube system. Why does the media speculate without even knowing if these were not already spent on NATO planes or rebel forces?
The media no longer reports facts, nor do they do one lick of research on their stories. They're just salaried writers paid to pump out trash. The old days of actually having reporters who understand the word "DIG" are no longer amongst us. Surely, you've noticed that! MSM today stands for "Main Stream |Mush." There is NO news reporting. Only odds and ends requested by those who pay the salaries. Today's reporters have no actual training or figureheads to look to so they haven't a clue. Search for the truth in the story? Are you kidding? They wouldn't know the truth if it bit them in the arse!!!
The Grinch that got stolen for Christmas........That can't be the real name!
This is crazy. I think rule here should be respect, specially for our leaders good or bad; Pres. Obama or Bush.
There are so many mis-infos I am just going to cover a few.
SSI = social secury insurance is a form of insurance from the gvt. As with all insurance, it totally depends on the rule of large number. Ordinary, most insurance premium paid by the insured but SSI taxes paid by the working people. For insurance to work the total claims paid must be less then the total amount of premium collected. Thus the problem with SSI; as more people are collecting less people are working to fuel the system. Solution: get more people to work and invest surplus in secured investments and continue to add to that fund. Then when that invesment fund reach a set amount that yealding a calculated amount of intest monthly then the goverment can rerouted all SSI tax paid to that fund and just pay out of the interest earned only.
fun fact, why'd you post it here?
There should also be no cap on SS income – all reported income should be subject to SS tax – there would be no shortfall if everyone paid on all their income.
ALL YOU MORONIC REPUBS BLAME THIS ON OBAMA, EVERY REPUB CANDIDATE SAYS WE SHOULD'VE BEEN THERE SOONER AND GOTTEN MORE INVOLVED, IE TROOPS ON THE GROUND......Repubtard logic.
The world would be better off if all of these Southern, inbred, fascist tea baggers followed their leader's (Hitler) example.
really, Hitler? I'm not even a tea partier and that just makes you look stupid beyond compare.
Oh good- Hitler reference. If you actually were to chart some of the methods in which he came to power it...parallels... well you get the picture. Wackos like you on both sides should just wage your civil war and get it over with- Some of us are actually civil and understand give & take
I'm from the North, we all hate Omaba here and are looking forward to next November where you will see change in a big way. YES WE CAN! It is called a republican sweep. We will erase all of Monkeyman's acts swiftly. We have wasted 4 years and made America look like a fool under him. No more.
@Born American.....r u sure you're american? Obama is a monkey? Republican sweep??? You are one crazy, stupid motherf***er!!!
You must be a Union member, friend of Hoffa no doubt. More than likely on some form of welfare or unemployeed to have views like that. Get a job loser.
I'm fully employed, and no not with a union. Nice job at trying to scape-goat, CHUMP.
So why did he do it anyway Obama is no better than the others
Funny, I remember democrats blaming everything on Bush when he was in office, but then again it doesn't really matter who is in office, the other side will always use them as a catch-all for the things that go wrong... gotta love old politics in the middle of a shouting match
whats funny about it? bush launched two wars that werent needed. 9/11 was an inside job to start with and covered up by george bush and company making it all but impossible to investigate it by the time obama rolled in. and yes, that was george bush's 'friends' in the oil business driving the price of oil sky high.
Can we all agree that Obama is very well spoken... whether you agree with what he has done or not, he represents the US to the world and it's not a bad thing looking intelligent and upstanding.
yawn... whether they steal the weapons or we sell them directly or indirectly to the thieves, they'll get them one way or the other.. capitalism at work..
HAMAS,HEZZBOLLAH,AL-QAEDA,LIFG AND AQIM – Isn't that another word for Democrat? All are terrorist.
Let's pretend it wasn't the Tea Party that stonewalled compromise and refused tax increases. And that the S&P didn't specify that tax increases should have been a part of the debt fix. And that by not doing what economists said was needed, they were "helping" America. Yeah, it's the Democrats who are the problem.
You're what's wrong with this country - SCUMBAG
You are obviously an imbecile
You forgot Teabaggers in the terrorist group who held the country hostge during debt crisis.
Another fine job by America's bloody ambition to stay the only superpower on the world stage....the military-corporate complex strikes again......
Yea but what? We're barely involved and without NATO being involved I seriously doubt that we would have been involved at all. So explain to me how this is "America's ambition to steal my cookies" or whatever?
It's easy.....same motiviation as in Iraq, yet more credible.....we're allies of the EU, the EU gets alot of their oil from Libya, thereby we are committed to defend their interests as well....we go to war in Libya for EU oil, which we also are banking on having easier access to after Libya is reconstructed (corporate contracts for rebuilding)......this will also pave the way for more markets to expand into in NA and hopefully the ME.....all wars are fought for $$$$$ and geo-politics!!!
YOU DUMB ASSES ARE BLAMING OBAMA? YOU IDIOTS NEED TO LOOK PAST THE PRESIDENT FOR ALL THE FUCK UPS.
Not every republican blames obma dumbass i for one blame Nato for not making sure of when you airstike something blow it all up so that it does not become a arm smugglers dream come true.
Yes it is a dangerous world. I am sure Russia has few more of these available for sale. Gadafi was probably smuggling these to the rest of Africa all along. The fact that he is gone might mean the flow of weapons will decline not increase. Stop blaming either Bush or Obama for everything. The good news is from what I see on TV these guys can't shoot straight anyway.
YOU people voted for him. Obama proving is inability to be a leader every single day. Time to take these liberal sons-of-bitches out.
Between conservatives calling this an illegal war and your idea that we should have done something more INSIDE of Libya what exactly do you propose that we should have done without having troops in Libya? Let's hear it.
@California Conservative-YOU people voted for him. Obama proving is inability to be a leader every single day. Time to take these liberal sons-of-bitches out.
What? What does Obama have to do with this news story? What do liberals have to do with this story?
Don't try to reason with these dunces.
If you think America's problems are solely the responsibility of Obama, you're ability to be an idiot is astounding....
Don't include me in you people, Just hope enough people get wise and put him out.
Great job Obama. People on these boards were warning against this weeks ago, and the people in charge let this happen. I can't say I'm shocked.
Oh okay Jeff, why don't you tell Obama what he should have done then. Should we have sent American troops to Libya to guard these weapon caches (even though this is an "illegal war" according to "conservatives" and the very idea of us helping our allies with a minimal role is outrageous to you)? Or should we have fought off NATO so Gadhafi could protect his own weapons? Which one Jeff? Or are you just taking your usual "it's Obama's fault no matter what!" stance? I'd bet the latter because I seriously doubt that you actually have any answers.
In conclusion, shut the f*ck up.
How aout this do nothong like China did. They said they wasn't going to get involved why because they know what is bs is all about Oil do your research
I like that patriotic feeling people have, questioning the president and all. Yes, he may be a dirtbag. No, he may not have a grip on the whole situation. But certain aspects of weapon sales don't reveal themselves easily exposed. And why? Because Ben Franklin and the whole club of dead presidents have the most influence nowadays. Greed and destruction go hand in hand, and are things that can divert intensions away from getting the job done, the right way.
IF THE NATO FORCES KNEW WHERE THESE WEAPONS WERE BEING STORED – THEN WHY DID THEY NOT "TAKE OUT" THAT BUILDING BEFORE WE REACHED THIS DISASTER.
We can buy back the 20,000 missiles at the next missile auction. I also notice that "heyheyhey" seems to blame presidents for everything bad. So actually, when democracy crumbles it is replaced by an emperor (not socialism – that replaced the Czar). Hail Caesar. If we get an emperor and "heyheyhey" bad mouths him, It will only be "heyhey..what the..." Sorry, no freedom of speech is where we are heading. Tea anyone?
Another well thought out plan by Obambam... what was he thinking... did he not learn from GWB's mistakes. Makes GWB look like a genius
How many ties does it have to be said? Obama was NOT running this show! Not secretly, not sorta, not a turn after someone else. Just not. Blaming someone other than the rebels for this just shows how determined you are to throw meaningless garbage at the president.
They were taken to gaza and sold to hamas people to in order to shoot on israeli choppers.
they were NOT sold to hamas,they were GIVEN to HAMAS,HEZZBOLLAH,AL-QAEDA,LIFG AND AQIM!
Those listed fraternities also are now in possesion of libya's looted WMD's also! the Israelis confirmed this over FIVE MONTHS AGO!!
Sorry, don't trust the israelis. They will say anything to try to get us and NATO to get involved with all those listed to fight them and do their (Israelis) dirty work.
it was confirmed by ISRAELI AND AMERICAN INTEL! tell yourself whatever lie that you want to believe! and it has already been documented by the govt of Mauritania and any other north african govt including gadafi's enemy in Chad!
americans..tell any lie that they can (just like our govt just did) to try to deflect any truth or fact when they have committed any atrocities!
We'll see when the Apache's start falling out of the sky. Until then this is just speculation, probably not based on any facts.
ADAM,it is fact!! this was reported over six months ago by the Israeli's! they even SEIZED some of the weapons in GAZA!! america's media has just refused to report any of this because they didnt want us to find out who nato and AMERICA is defending!
and Carter Haim HAS known about this also!
Another fine mess eh Stanley?
Aaaand here we go again... We're being set up to accept NATO and American boots on the ground, one of the pretexts will be to guard the weapon stockpiles. First of all, the Rebels are full of KNOWN AlQaida assets (The rebel leader Abdelhakim Belhaj fought in Afghanistan and he's two lieutenants HAVE BEEN DETAINED IN GUANTANAMO). Second of all , there is NO PROOF whatsoever that Kadhafi had harmed the protesters as this report states that even Amnesty International has cast doubts on those allegations:
www . independent . co . uk/news/world/africa/amnesty-questions-claim-that-gaddafi-ordered-rape-as-weapon-of-war-2302037.html
This war is again 100% fabrication and the lies continue. The war on terror is BOGUS, it is an excuse to further the banking interests that have hijacked American politics since Kennedy...
Once the missles are sold, the seller doesn't care where they end up. They will show up in Afghanistan taking out American Air Force jets and helicopters.
Surely Putin has some really "creative" Intel people in that region, they need to help get these things cleaned up too. This is a war between Man and Neanderthals with AK-47s', their commercial safety is threatened as well.
I don't imagine many will go to Afghanistan actually. There is demand and way more than enough money to purchase them in Gaza. Plus a well established terrorist weapons supply route through adjacent Sudan the Red Sea and Egyptian Sinai Peninsula. Absolutely terrible.
I say Afghanistan, but you are probably right. They will also go to Gaza and Yemen and Somalia. The Somali pirates would love a truckload of these missles to really take out some big ships.
Israel should understand how America ended the war in Japan and perhaps use "that" method to do to Gaza before Gaza does to them?
There has never been a democracy that didn't commit suicide.
if war is propping up our failed economy then we are doomed fyi perpetual war cannot be the answer to our fiscal health in this country people really need to wake up and realize war is not serving out the peoples interest its turning us into a welfare nation......
ANOTHER PROOF THE WORLD WAS SAFER WITH KADAFFI ON POWER....!!!
Right. He only used the mislles against his own people within Libya's borders. He was good like that.
...Think of the volume of work and the intellectual levels of the designers, engineers, planners, financiers and workers who created those magnificent towers; Then think of the level of skill and intelligence of those who built the airliners from the days of the Kitty Hawk; Then think of the mentality of those who slit throats, hijacked and flew the planes into the WTC towers, blocking out the reality that the lids of their coffins would close on them with the deaths of 3000 souls to their credit. Mostly burned to death, crushed under tons of concrete & steel and baked @ 1800 degrees for six weeks. This describes the level at which they passed into eternal life. We honored them here by burying their ashes, along with the other rubble at the dump with a bulldozer, A Historic Site; The Landfill Of The Unknown Terrorist. Some of the steel from those structures has been reforged into the USS New York, a peacekeeper’s platform designated to keep our world free for time to come. The U.S. needs to stay vigilant. These stolen-missiles may become a new Somalian style pirate tool for comercial airliners all over...
well the muslims are known for their contribution to science with all the Nobel prizes so they must be destined for scientific research. oops, sorry that is the Jewish people. well guess coming to a place nearest your airport. Fly the friendly US skies.
Your ignorance is quite revealing, which can only suggest that you've managed to avoid the Muslim's contribution to Western enlightenment and wish a return to the dark ages ... oops, sorry, obviously you've never left.
If that were true we wouldn't have employed Nazi scientists after WW2 to design our weapons and dirty little secrets. Oh wait, most people don't know that.
I am of two opinions on this. For decades now we have read about these hand held SAMs being in the wrong hands, whether they were Stingers given to the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan during their fight against the Soviet invasion, to those that disappeared in Iraq, to those that disappeared in Eastern Europe when communism collapsed, to those had held SAMs that supposedly have gone missing from armies all over the world and yet we have not seen the kind of airspace closing events we are warned about.
But it is still kind of scary knowing these weapons are out there.
Now one thing to remember if they are unpacked and now being tossed around in cars, the back of trucks, etc being exposed to sand, water, dirt, being bounced around inside of vehicles as they make their way around North Africa, many of them will simply cease to be functional. So the threat may be far less then this artical wants us to believe
do you get paid the word or by the LIE? as I said before, AL-QAEDA,LIFG,AQIM HAMAS AND HEZZBOLLAH are already IN POSSESION of these lotted weapons! just three months ago the army of Mauritania raided an al-qaeda camp on their border and seized some of them from the al-qaeda terrorist there who had received them from the AL-QAEDA LIBYAN REBELS!!
the Israeli govt has for months been confirming that these weapons had been turning up in GAZA in the west bank! keep your stupid opinions to yourself,your lies also! the rebels are TERRORIST! and we just helped them seize missiles,WMD'S and shoulder launch rockets that they have GIVEN to their terrorist brothers! your a moron!
wow – not too scary. genie is out of the freakin' bottle. you have to imagine some – or all will be falling into the wrong hands. so glad the West helped "liberate" them, allowing all these munitions to get loose. Thanks "rebel alliance".
The west didn't have troops there to secure these sites. It was up to the rebels. You know, the ones who were snatching up guns and tanks from retreating Gadhafi troops, then running off to the next battlefront?
And if the U.S. had sent in troops to secure these missiles when they had the chance the folks who gripe about everything would have crucified Obama.
RON PAUL is the People's Choice in 2012! Join the REVOLUTION!
He needs better poll numbers to have a revolution. We'll see how he does after the debate. He could be washed up before the revolution even gets started.
This is treasonous talk...don't use the word 'revolution' the Seals will be sent in after you...they like going after terrorists.
NOW CNN wants to try to pretend as if it is a FREE AND FAIR MEDIA SITE by reporting WHAT I have been commenting on for the LAST SIX MONTHS!!
all of those weapons are in the hands of AL-QAEDA,AQIM,LIFG,HAMAS AND HEZZBOLLAH!! this was confirmed by the ISRAELI'S back in APRIL of this year! the army of Mauritania raided an al-qaeda camp on their border and confiscated tons of weapons that the terrorist there has acquired from the LIBYAN REBELS!
and guess what folks. all of the listed terrorist groups that I listed above are now in possesion of the WMD'S that Libya had also! america and nato has known this from day one,but WILLINGLY hid that truth from the public so that we could not know who they were defending!
this is old news to me because I have known about MYSELF for the past six months! and every time that I would post a comment on this same issue,CNN WOULD REMOVE IT! reap waht you sow!!
Now why would we want to tell Americans that they screwed up again. Fear is our ally.
Al Qaida is Obama's best allies – they love him! He just gave them new toys to play with. Time for Obama to go on vacation again, isn't it. Maybe he will go to China and stay there since he loves them more than his own country. God help us now.
TeaBagger Dan, Shouldnt you be off somewhere praying for rain?
jt_flyer – don't spend your welfare check all in one place, save it for at least two liquor stores.
Rather be the Teabagger than the Teabagee.. your forhead smells like old balls.
What you and your fellow Teabaggers don't realize is that saying something does not automatically make it true.
Al-queda made Halliburton, KBR, Blackwater far more money, and of course Cheney and some members of Congress also got rich off 9-11.
Why not, uh? Liberals do it all of the time 🙂
People on both sides need to stop trying to be pithy and get to the reality.
China is going like gangbusters in recent years with their focused goals, efficient decision-making and semi-capitalist, semi-socialist form of government. None of the kind of gridlock you see in Congress. Sometimes a one-party system can work pretty good, compare India and China over the last 30 years...no comparison, China wins by a country mile.
Focused goals and ....are you kidding me I cant even read the rest- China is a utopia for the .000000000001% Wealth discrepancy, lack of ANY healthcare for the VAST majority, they're running a business with no expenses and they can manipulate the earnings!
If we wanted to take out some of these sams, we could make fake replacement batteries, which have small loads of c4, so if you try to open the battery it explodes, try to use it in a sam it explodes, try to test it for a current, it explodes...Just make a bunch and sell them on the black martket...in the mideast...
Another tool for us democrats to spread fear with. We are in control and we will use any weapon it takes to trick the american public into voting for us. After all, we have the union vote bought and paid for, welfare recipients love us. Fear & money, we can't be beat reguardless of what the truth is. We can change that too!
Nancy, you tell it like it is.
Give it a couple of weeks, and those missiles will be flying at US helicopters in Iraq and Afghanistan.
I know a helicopter in DC that they can target practice on.
Congradulations you just had you identity traced back to your house, and have earned a permanente place in the secret service watch list,,,way to go....second fool in an hour,,look below.
dream on dreamer... he made no threats to the idiot in charge! freedom of speech! whats wrong the truth hurts? I will only hope that he OBAMA,is tried for TREASON for helping these same terrorist who we are fighting against right now in afghanistan and in YEMEN!!
HOW IS AMERICA'S SO CALLED DEMOCRACY WORKING OUT IN THAT COUNTRY? the people in yemen openly declare their allegiance to al-qaeda, that is why we are bombing them everyday! nothing good will come from libya!
Those missiles aren't missing. They are exactly where they were planned to be. In the hands of al Qaida!
True, 'missing' is a matter of perspective in most things.
I think you are right – by giving them more weapons they will be tempted to use them, which creates a new post-cold war threat to the USA which provides more reasons for us to expand the military and fund the TSA and Homeland Security. Woohoo! More tax dollars to defense – we need a 40 trillion budget for that!
so what happened in this war? Gadafi could not hit even one plane or heli with any of his 20,000 shoulder sam's when he was getting his crapper bombed? Is that just a plain inadequacy on his part and the part of his monkey men? Figures.
His war wasn't against NATO. Had he shot down a plane then NATO would have sent actual ground troops.
Now we are in real trouble.
oh oh oh well I guess the relatives of the 3,000 civilians that american and nato warplanes killed have something to use for revenge
Hey! Are you the patriot Tokyo Rose's brother??
If they were so effective at turning Libya into a no fly zone then why did NATO have a field day in Libya?
Seems over blown as usual.
This country is going to become another Iraq and Aafghanistan. Why western countires, Russia and china supplies sofsticated weapons to unstable states? taliban is able to shoot USAF choopers with RPG, what will happen when they get SAMs? God bless America.
This is terrible news. If you remember the Soviets were actually winning the war in Afghanistan until a large number of Stingers were given to the Taliban. We all know the outcome.
...This is terrible news. If you remember the Soviets were actually winning the war in Afghanistan until a large number of Stingers were given to the Taliban. We all know the outcome....
The fall of the soviet union was the eventual outcome, which I put as good. What was bad was that we didn't give the afgans a chance to build their country after years of war. We cut them off and let the Taliban go right in there, that led us here.
I'm shocked, SHOCKED, that these weapons were not previously removed and stored in a safe place by the United Nations Inter Galctic Weapons Storage Space Command !
I think a good training tool for the Libian terrorist should be Obama's helicoptor.
forward this to the secret service, only a traitor of the united states of America would even think such a thing
I don't know which makes you more stupid; your remarks or your illiteracy.
Congradulations you just had you identity traced back to your house, and have earned a permanente place in the secret service watch list,,,way to go....
Yet another American patriot heard from.
Watch out USA your true (or lack of) colors are showing!
You're an idiot. 1.) the helo is so sophisticated (believe me I know it is) that it could not be tracked. 2.) You know who would take over? GUESS! 3.) So you don't like Obama for wht reason? The color of his skin or the fact that he has done more to try to bring America out of the Recession than ALL of the Republican Bunch combined? And you don't like that?
Be warned! This is a direct threat made against the President of the United States. Regardless of your political stance. This is in violation of US law and you WILL be held accountable. We are currently tracing your e-mail.
Grinch SA-24 missiles don't shoot down aircraft – people using Grinch SA_24 missiles shoot down aircraft. (source – NRA)
So the NRA says the Libyans or whoever have a right to the missiles. Well OK, we know that no bad people are using assault rifles on the American people either (except Americans of course)....
Firing such a missile is not a trivial operation for an untrained person. However, if you have 20,000 to practice with and perhaps just 1 disgruntled trained operator...
Yeah but you can probably download the manual for the sam's over the internet,,,,great huh.
All that stuff is a blast to shoot, no pun intended, pricey but fun when you actually get to shoot a live one and not just a sim.
Hey, can I have one??
Considering how crazy some of these countries are about their soccer or futball teams,,,they will probably just endup using those sams and mortars, and artillery shells on the opposing team at the next big futball game....besides those sam's need a very special battery,,once the battery goes dead the weapon is useless.....
Why is this news? My local fireworks stand has more dangerous missles than Libya
When your plane is shot down by one of these remind me again if you care...
Got that right!!!
Besides those Libyan kids were making their own weapons which worked surprisingly well, if they can do it, anybody can anywhere..
So where exactly is this fireworks stand?
Arm them then un-arm them; support them then fight them; war is hell and a vicious cycle of stupidity always conducted by politicians with self-serving goals.
Omaba is the man with no plan (except he is great at going on vacation0.
just remember that the two presidents in US history who have taken more vacation time than any other presidents were Regan and W.... but then again, ol ronald had alzheimers... so i guess thats an excuse, and cheney was actually running the show
Really cause Bush actually took more time off than any other president.
It's amazing how every republican makes ignorant comment after ignorant comment and forgets that Bush took more vacation than any other president in the history of this country!
He also spent more money than Obama while he was in office. When Clinton left office before Bush there was a surplus of money in the country and Bush ruined that. Obama inherited this mess we are in and I do not think Obama or anyone else will be able to fix it for a long time!
Think back how gas prices were skyrocketing when Bush was in office... Hmmm oil interest! 2 2=
Thanks George Bush! Idiots!
Lets hope the Prez want-a-be Omaba goes on vacation the rest of his life in 1 year. The problem is what country would take him. Oh I forgot, China loves him.
Hello, tiny, little troll. Would you like a little troll treat to nibble on? C'mere, then. Don't worry, little troll, this giant hammer is just a prop. Doesn't that troll treat taste good? Now close your eyes, and dream of living forever in Mommy's basement. SPLAT!
Reagan doesn't remember how many vacations he took....
Bush and Rumsfeld gave a lot more away in Iraq, when those army depots where looted, and U.S. soldiers have been getting killed ever since...
why didn't they use it against NATO planes?
Because they are from Russia, they don't work.
good question. we shall see if they are used against israel
Because NATO flies at 40,000 feet and these shoulder-fired missiles only reach 11,000 ft altitude.
Because shoulder fired ground to air missiles are not much use against high-speed, high-altitude targets – unless you are highly skilled. However, half a dozen US and NATO aircraft (I think even a couple of F-16s) were lost to those during operation Desert Storm. But Saddam's troops were much better trained. If all someone knows is point, lock on target, press button then something like a helicopter or an A-10 is the best bet. Either that or a 747...if that someone is from al-qaeda. Which is what the main problem is really.
All aircraft must come back to eath to land and that's when they are the most vulnerable. With an hour or 2 of training almost anyone could hit a commercial aircraft at slow landing or take or speeds.
Just to clear the air so to speak, you can put an addtional rocket booster motor on those sams, that will take them up to 17,000 feet or so,,,,scary an't it.
Hey, we can sell them the booster rockets. That's free enterprise 🙂
Drones at 35,000 feet are hard to see, let alone hit.
And best of all, an experience pilot say sh*t, then goes home to his family, even if the drone is hit or crashes....
i have solved this problem already if we were to pull all our troops out of the war zones then they couldnt shoot our planes down with them and if we pulled all our troops out we could bring them home and let them spend their money here we could create jobs using the specialized personel from the military we could protect our borders with the rest of the military omg this is a epiphany i should run for president or maybe ill just let ron paul handle it doing away with the income tax will be a nice perk for all of us and with a friendly foriegn policy aimed to trade with all and give to no one the rest of the world would be more stable as well we have no right putting troops on the ground in places that have not attacked us anywho if we were to do this we could all unite and help each other here in america is that what we should do
The concern here is not just with exposure of American and European forces. I wouldn't be surprised to see civilian aviation targeted in a new form of ransom piracy or see them used to settle political scores. That would hamper not only security, but economic growth on the African continent. And that means more poor angry people. Not what we want for stability, world peace, commerce, or whatever your positive goals are.
If we pulled all our troops out of war zones and discharged them, you'd see unemployment and homeless rates skyrocket. Not a justification; just a fact.
What is the shelf life of the SA series now that they unpacked them, anything like the stingers ?
I will add one other thing.I am sick and tired of seeing arabs burn our flag and chant death to America.I say we start counter demonstrations now 100,000 people in the streets screaming war for oil now.Burning all of OPECs flags.Scare the he(( out of them.I bet gas prices would drop and the economy would improve if we could stop the bas#@&^# who hold a strangle hold on us
And who was it who made you GOD, again?
Watch now as Obama missles from Libya shoot down passinger planes all over the world. Obama has no clue what he is doing. I never thought that one fool could take the USA from world power to world class fools. Thank you to the Unions & welfare recipients for voting this monkey in. 1 year to go. Hope we can make it. He still can cause a lot of damage.
Yeah because he's been the only fool in office and created this mess by himself...
You are a real nut consumed with misplaced hatred and depending on total misinformation – for one thing the article clearly stated they were Russian missiles, nothing to do with Obama.
Maybe we can get Obama to go on vacation until 2013? It would be worth the $ to get monkeyboy to go away.
"Real American?" In whose country? You smell like bad real American cheese.
I suppose you want to take us back to the days before the 13th Amendment. Or did you forget we have a Constitution?
And here I thought Obama was president of the US. Now it turns out he was actually the head of Russia and supplying their missiles to Libya. Whoknew?
I'm unpacking mine right now. I got in on Ebay. It says, right there on the label, "This is an authentic surface-to-air missile made in the United States. Quality Control Inspector: Barack Obama." See, there's proof. Something, somewhere, is all his fault.
stealing my name again?
Shut the f&ck up people, nobodys making any sense here anyway.
Nato did it again,20,000 surface to air missels in militants hands.Gadhafi was just coming around to western thinking.The descison to back the rebels was personal from the 80s.The man kept al quida out of his country now they have all they want.I hope airliners have decoys.I wonder if the people in Norfolk decided they didn't like obahama looted a arms depot threw the police out of the city.Then declared themselfs a new country.If nato would have supported them with air strikes aginst D.C.The man had many misdeeds but could have been a great ally aginst terrosiom.Nice going NATO didn't think this one through.
You are right although NATO isn't calling the shots, Obama did this.
Commandante Belhaj is having the missiles sent to the US and Europe in support of his fellow jihadists there.
".Gadhafi was just coming around to western thinking."
What a load of garbage!
"Gaddhafi was just coming around to Western thinking"????? Oh, right, because slaughtering peaceful demonstrators with helicopter gunships is really what we see every day in democratic Western countries. Are you completely brain-dead?
And for all you people going "now someone might use these to blow up airliners, and all because of some old grudge from the 80s", let's see, what was that grudge from the 80s about? Oh, right, Gaddhafi actually DID blow up an American airliner. While I fully agree that having these missile floating around is bad, please keep in mind that these are by no means the only anti-aircraft weapons available on the black market. It's not like this was the only place terrorists were going to get weapons to use against the West. Certainly we should track these weapons down as best we can, but other equally dangerous weapons have been floating around out there for a long time.
As long as we Dems hold onto power, we can cause chaos everywhere and bring fear to the little people. Fear is our power. We have Hoffa to create fear in the Unions. Reed to cause dismay in the Senate. Ignorant voters who believe anything we want as long as they get their welfare checks. We are in control.
Oh, you're not fooling me. You're really a nice little old lady sitting at home knitting a new holster for her sidearm.
Why are the labels written in english if they are from Russia??
That is an excellent question.
English is a universal language.
Chinese (i.e Mandarin) is the most spoken language in the world (because of population)
English is the current, universal "cross-country/cross-culture" language.
Example: When a German, French and Japanese are meeting in Egypt, chances are high they are communicating in English.
People all over the world who want good jobs or to travel the world learn English for a good reason.
You are right except they need a Canadian to translate all those 'accents' into understandable English for everyone...
Let me take a wild stab. Could it be that more people around the world learn English than Russian?
Wow, so many intelligent conversations taking place here. I like Dave's idea about putting remote mini self destruct explosives into all high tech weapons. Not that it matters much though since these were RUSSIAN. Not going to be much help if they don't agree to do the same thing. I also like the idea of the degrading explosives, forcing regimes to buy new ones every so often or they would expire like eggs or milk. Hmm, but if nutty regimes all over the world realized their weapons would become useless on the expiration date printed on the side... what do you think they would do with them? Let them go bad and buy new ones? They would USE them. Anyway, no worries, I'm sure the 20,000 SAM missiles will find good homes in the near future. I hear Somalia is nice this time of year, I'm sure they would be more than happy to take care of some lost weapons.
Self destruct devices in weapons? Programmers writing malicious code fantasize about that.
everyones sick of jews and their whining, jews destroyed American economy and completely destructed this country. not USA or europe or anyone in this world gives a damn anymore about them being "eternal victims". i hope turks arm arabs as well and finish off these jew fkbags
YOUR A DISGUSTING, SLEEZEBALL BIGOT........I HOPE SOMEONE IN YOUR FAMILY MARRIES A JEW...........
ladydi FUK YOU!
everyones sick of kikeroach and his/her whining, kikeroach destroyed American economy and completely destructed this country. not USA or europe or anyone in this world gives a damn anymore about him/her being an "eternal victim". i hope turks arm arabs as well and finish off this kikeroach fkbag.
So, kikeroach, how does it feel?
Hee hee hee–ladydi, that was great!
fund this article that can explain the link better.
very interesting i don't see nothing about it on the CNN. ?????
debka is a jew run bs, though i wouldn't feel bad if they used those missiles against jews.
SO MANY JEW HATERS HERE – MAKES ME SICK (I'M NOT JEWISH) – WHY DONT YOU KEEP YOUR BIGOTED VIEWS OUT OF THIS FORUM!!!!
now its clear what u are.
1.why hate all the time.
2. the only way you can win with the Jewish is to leave them alone. the more u attack the stronger thy get.
3. we as humanity need to realize the with so much hate to one another we loose our rights to be on this earth that starts to spit us all out
because that would take work. don't expect CNN to hire jounalists do you? CNN doesn't report news, just spread political propaganda, just like Fox news.
Unfortunately, the DEBka article does not provide any sources for it's allegations that the gunrunning from Libya is ending up in Gaza or Sinai. Unless an article cites sources, it is an opinion piece and not news.
Considering the relative dearth of attacks against civilian aircraft, this is not really as big a story as everyone wants it to be:
And we've had decades of problems with SAM lootings. Most of the missiles turn out to not fare well with a smuggler that does not know how to maintain the equipment. Or they just get added to the inventory of another military.
While it's possible these could be used against civilian targets, it's actually quite uncommon.
And you don't care about non-civilian targets–why?
Are you kidding?!?!?!?!?
Well, look at the bright side. If someone blew up a bunch of passenger jets, Boeing would get to sell replacements with the insurance money! More jobs in America!
question....did any NATO warplanes get shot down while engaging anytargets in Lybia? if not...it would almost seem that those missles posed no threats....could it be cause the weponry the planse wereusing like shrikes and lgm have a far more supeior range than 19,00 feet... in all honesty....the shoulder launched missles dont really pose much of a threat anymore.....with the exception of helo's i guess... either way.. nt much can be done about it now..
Shoulder fired SAM missiles are highly effective against helicopters. Ask the troops on that copter that got shot down in Afghanistan.
They can also be used as surface to surface missiles, it's just not cost effective to do so. Why waste one that way when regular RPG's are cheap and sold at every corner store over there?
GREAT just PHUCKING GREAT
i hope they use those to blow up as many kikess as possible.
I hope they shoot one up your a__
I HOPE IT'S USED TO BLOW THE SH*T OUT OF NATO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yeah, we won't need them what with North Korea, Syria, etc being so friendly and all.
"Tunisia - An interim government came to power in mid-January when an uprising prompted President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali to leave the country after 23 years in power. -------- Why mean there was a revolution and NATO was not invited?
Open your eyes people. the missiles are already in GAZA. follow the news in Israel about the slip of a tang by IDF Home Front Command Chief, Major General Eyal Eisenberg. link : http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4118220,00.html
add 1+1 and u get the answer.
Islam, the religion of peace.
Islam as a religion is no more violent than Christianity or Judaism. Most of these people are looting the weapons not because they want to use them, or are going to sell them to AQ because they agree with what AQ is doing. They are looting them to sell them so they can feed their families. Now, the smart thing to do would be for the TNC to announce that they will purchase any looted weapons at probably close to black market prices, with no questions asked. Now, this could be financed through assistance from the US, EU, and NATO. It would be much cheaper than letting these weapons fall into the hands of whoever and then trying to track them down.
What you mean talk all day and do absolutely nothing? If I was president, first thing first, Pull all troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan today. I don't care what happens to those government afterwards. Just take all our stuff and go home. Next, fortify the boarders and block any and all from coming in illegally. if you want in, you need to fill out the paperworks
next, rebuild america. Change the tax law and go on a smearing compagin against all that dares to defy me. Create more jobs in America and get people to spend more. Finally, work on an anti-nuke/ ballistic missle program to stop attacks to the US.
Simple, it's not that hard. Do as I say or get bulldoze. Your call.
Yeah, that sounded easy.
Ain't nothin' so satisfying to a tyrant as tyranny.
that's called politics. No wonder you support obama, you let the GOP run over you without any resistance
You have my vote Mr. Prez.... Too bad noone will listen . As we see in history , people who make sense or who stand for the rest of 'we the people' are ignored .
GREAT IDEA – I LOVE IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you aware that we've spent hundeds of billions and 30 years (beginning with Reagan's Star Wars) on missile defense without ever actually intercepting a single missile, even when we know it's coming? Do you realize that even if you stopped one, all an enemy has to do is use a multiple warhead missile to overwhelm the defense? SO much for "simple". Oh, wait; you were just signing your name?
Do you know that technology evolves over time? Or are you still using your 10 pound cell phone? You put money into R&D you idiot. What's your option? Go invade more countries and force them to never attack us again? Like we did in Iraq and Afghanistan? And not in Libya? I rather save money and build these weapons instead of invading them like you idiots
Surface-to-air missiles in the hands of our enemy??? What's new? These weapons will be used to create God-knows-what, but bank on the fact it will be sinister in nature and likely aimed at us. I suggest the transitional government offers a pair of sneakers or movie ticket to the locals through a "turn-in" and "trade" program like they have done in Detroit, Atlanta and other major cities around the U.S....oh wait that didn't work for us either!
It's really all Dr. Emmit Browns fault. Those were not shody bomb caseing with pinball mechine parts after all.
I suppose the UN should have thought about all these 'weapons' prior to dropping their own. What did they think would happen. Oh, that's right, they did NOT think, they just tried pushing their own agenda.
@may: Their agenda being...to protect Libyan civilians from being murdered by Gaddafi's forces. Anybody with enough money can buy this type of weapon. They don't have to wait until somebody loots a weapons depot in Libya. Or Iraq. Or any other country whose dictator has been overthrown. Should people do nothing when a dictator kills his own citizens? By the way, if the looters want to sell the weapons, we have way more money than the terrorists do. The looters are more likely to sell them to us. It's not like Iraq, in which the weapons were used to fight "occupiers."
Explains why NATO and the UN have intervened in Africa's decades of unrest and more recently in Syria.....
However I would point out to Alex, they are NOT likely to sell the missiles to us. They can make their money by selling them to any number of Islamic groups and appease their sky daddy at the same time.
May you could just as easily blame the Russians for selling top of the line missiles to a dictator but that wouldn’t fit into YOUR agenda I guess.
hello!!! what the hell is cia/sod, dia, mi6, british mod intelligence, nato intelligence, doing to find and catalog these missing rockets??? get them on the f'en ground, and have them account for every rocket that is missing...otherwise, they're might more lockerbie scotlands.
Exactly. They made the mess, now go clean it up 'without US tax dolars'.
These types of weapons are traded and sold all over the Middle East. You don’t need a rebellion for this to happen.
May did you miss the CIA part? You agreed with his comment then suggest ‘they’ should clean up the mess “'without US tax dolars'. How then do you suggest they clean up the mess? Please go back to your vacuuming and baking, you are an embarrassment to stay at home moms everywhere.
And it is ‘dollars’ btw.
Hello! What did you expect supporting rebells? Did you really expect any order and security from people whose goal is to destabilize and throw the government? You should have thought of it before hand. And no, we shouldn't be using CIA to recover one missle at a time. Looking for those missiles would be like looking for an needle in a haystack (actually Russian word Igla meens needle). We would have the entire CIA chasing down those individual rockets, one at a time.
Oh, I suppose they're sitting around on their a$$e$ criticizing everyone else.
Let's elect another Texan, so we can start another war.
We don't need a war for the USA to collapse, socialism is marching right along and we will collapse from within, just like every major world power before us has done until we are a 2ed or 3rd rate country. All we need is one Socialistic President to push us over the edge. The ACLU, Entitlements, out of control Federal Government, governmental waste, only half the citizens paying any form of tax, and citizens more interested in the gameboy then freedom and we all have out goose cooked and served up on a silver platter to those ready to pick our bones.;
@Dave: what "socialism" would that be? Do you mean Social Security and Medicare? Yes, those are socialist programs which most Americans seem to like a lot. Otherwise, not clear what "socialism" you're seeing "on the march." Don't wallow in conservative delusions. The "socialist" that you fear ensured the survival of the US auto industry and the big Wall Street banks. Those are bastions of American CAPITALISM. Also, there are plenty of other countries if you don't like how things are in the USA. Please write again when you find one that you like better.
why does everyone keep calling SS "socialism"? I pay into it. I get money out when I retire. Its the original 401(k)
@jack: SS is socialist because its run by the government, a government-run retirement system that includes people who don't work for the government. It's socialist, just like Medicare. Further, after three years, on average, you've gotten everything out of SS that you paid into it. Yet people feel "entitled" to keep getting SS checks after those three years. Many people love socialist things, even though they don't like the word "socialist." Every human family is socialist. Unless you charge your kids for the food, shelter, and medical care that you provide for them. Just as you provide a safety net for your kids, through socialism a government provides a safety net for its citizens. SS and Medicare are that safety net. Government-run. Socialist. Just like the medical program that every person in the US Congress uses. Just like the military medical system. It's all socialist, pure and simple.
i hope you realized that obama is not from texas
Why, the Hawian is doin' just fine....
Be respectful please. He is not a Hawaiian. He is Kenian.
@ VR13: HE'S AN AMERICAN.
@vr13: P.S. Learn to spell.
@VR13: still living the sad conservative delusion. Reality is a much better place to live. Your own GOP leaders are laughing at you for swallowing the lame lies that are started by rightwing media propagandists. Unlike you, the GOP leadership accept the reality that Hawaii is a US state and the President was born there. Wake up and try to act like an American, not a rightwing robot.
Dave, I agree with you. And no, the Texan didn't go to Libya.
texan allready had Libya
That's right, the Texan started an unnecessary war in Iraq that has cost us $2 trillion and the lives of thousands of brave Americans. The Hawaiian used US air power to bomb the Libyan dictator out of power. Gaddafi is the terrorist who ordered the bombing of Pan Am flight 103 in which American died. Reagan tried to get him in 1986 and missed. Obama tried in 2011 and succeeded. I like the way the Hawaiian handles things. It works better than the way that last Texan handled things. Perry is a dumbed-down version of Bush. The current President has my vote for 2012.
The french was already pounding libya. why did we have to join? Oh yea because of the dumb hawaiian
@heyheyhey: if you'll recall, the US, not the French, did the first air strikes to help the Libyans. The other NATO countries (France, the UK) began flying their sorties *after* the US air campaign had begun. Republicans griped about it, because they'd forgotten that Ronald Reagan had also launched an air campaign against Gaddafi in 1986. Obama's campaign succeeded where Reagan's had failed. For some reason, some Americans forget that the US is part of NATO and that NATO campaigns usually begin with US actions, as in the 2011 liberation of Libya.
I agree with you suckmynuts, these fools want folks in this blog to listen to them when they got the logic of a 3rd grader. Shut the f@ck up,everybody, get up offa your asses a live and quit bitchin.
You ppl are crazy and trying to drive the rest of us where you are.
Anytime we sell hightec arms to anyone besides a rifle and bullets, we should implant some sort of sleeper device that will respond to a satelite command to self distruct. Problem solved.
Ok, Dave, we took you advice and did that. Now, how about you convince the RUSSIANS to do the same. Since, you know, that's who sold them the weapons...
You fat ass lazy people sure do love to talk shit about the president. Why don't you fags go out there and try doing his job? No matter what president we have you same people will still keep talking shit, and quite frankly, it's annoying as fuck. So shut the fuck up and have a nice day 🙂
Hay there Mr. Personality. When a person, who ever is in the Office of the President screws up as badly on all fronts that this Bozo has we have the right to call him on the carpet, that is unless you support censorship and a socilistic society. If that is the case good by Constitution and Bill of Rights. Thank you for your comments ahead of time. RA 16897089
I guess you've been in a coma for the last several years. I'm glad you're awake now, but you'll be happy to know, the Bozo is out of office now and we've elected a new President named Obama. Good to have you back! It's 2011.
Agreed SKyle, who would have thought it could get any worse. O well.. live and learn.
Hey, SKyle, name one of Bush's policies that your saint, Obama, has stopped.
OOPS! Quick! We better send them some more money and air power!
From the start of this blog, I've seen the blame put on NATO, Obama, and the CIA. Do any of you people even know what the f@&$ you're talking about? This blog sh@t is really getting out of hand. This is how you create nuts like that fool that shot up the soldiers in the IHOP yesterday. If you know for sure of what you talking about(which is very obvious) then do you country a favor and "Shut the f@$k up".
Yea, lets take the reasonability for the IHOP nut off the guy who actually shot those people and blame the comment boards on CNN because they disagree with my point of view.. awesome.
And for the record I do not blame NATO, Obama or the CIA. I blame the Libyans. But you can take your Taliban way of thinking and shove it.
Then who was right all along? Who talked about unintended consequences? Blow-back? These wars are none of our business? well, just one candidate, from either side, Dem/Rep, yes, just one who was right about this, and also about the economy, Federal reserve, about Obama increasing the wars and so on. The same one that CNN, FOX, ABC and many other told us he is not a TOP TIER candidate , even when he was second for 1/10 of a point? yeas, you are right also, his name is Ron Paul...
It was good of us to sell Gadhafi the weapons.
They were Russian built weapons. The U.S. doesn't sell weapons and replacement parts to just anyone. No matter what movie you've recently watched...
No thanks. No Libertarian anarchists.
They have products we want, we buy them, they have our money, they use that money to buy arms at exagerated prices, we get our money back. People are put to work, economy gets better. So change the formula of the explosives to deteriorate over time to inert after x years. Problem solved. They have to buy more. Make electroincs respond to a Satelite command to self distroy itself electrically. No guidance, weapon no good. Easy. Better to fight them over there then over here. Imagine if you will a dozen dozen stingers in the hands of Islamic terrorists at Chicago, New York, Miami, Minneapolis, Denver, San Francisco, Los Angles or even around some of our military bases. Goodby commercial aviation and welcome to WWIII
Ron Paul...oh yeah, him. I keep getting him mixed up with that cross-dresser.
I just wanna know, why NATO intervention in Libya and No interference in Syria? What did gaddafi do that the syrian government hasn't done over and over. Who is deceiving who?
Hmmm, which country has oil?
Which question do you want answered?
Hmmmm.....which country could cause significant NATO casualties?
YoHi64 – nope, its all about the oil. Have someone in Syria announce some big oil discovery, and Obama will be dropping the 82nd and 101rst that night.
the answer is simple, first of the Libyan situation was organic meaning the uprising came from within, second the population requested Western intervention where as the Syrian people have not.
are you serious? Syrians have been asking for NATO and the US to intervene. They had a special on CNN and it might be on youtube. They want us to interveme, we've just been turning a blind eye
Morally there is no difference between Syria and Libya, and it would be much more in the US interest to have the Assads and Baathists replaced in Syria than Ghadaffi in Libya. (It's not about oil-dictators love to sell as much oil as they can for their pleasure palaces).
Politically and militarily there is a big difference. In Libya, you had both a relatively weak central army–both in capability and morale/reliability. And you quickly had defections from this army to the rebels, and they brought equipment and training. In sum, there was a chance that the rebels could win in Libya without external professional ground troops. There is no such chance in Syria, the army is stronger and more unified (top officers are salted by the minority Alawite sect, who is deathly afraid of retribution from the majority should they lose). In Libya, many officers in the army refused to shoot their own people (and so the dictator bought mercenaries). In Syria, they have no problem with widespread massacres and snipers-and the few military units which defected were quickly attacked and liquidated. Syria's internal spies are more competent than Ghaddafi's.
Syria has just a nastier bastard.
Egypt's revolution worked because the army refused to go all in with Mubarak, like in Tunisia. In Syria the army now knows that if they lose, every one of them will be executed for war crimes.
The difference is that the Libyan people mounted a viable insurgency that NATO could support, whereas the Syrians have not.
Active genocide happening in Myanmar right now. Very true, it's all about oil.
SO, if someone manages to smuggle some of these into the US from say Canada we can look for our 747's and other planes to start falling out of the sky. I bet al Qaeda is all over this one.
Right, becasue Canada is known as a gun-loving terrorist-aiding, arms-smuggling hot-spot. What an eskimo-pie-head.
The people will wake up and handle the problem.
By the way none – that's 0, zero, nada, zip, zilch, goose-egg, – none of the 9/11 terrorists came into the US through Canada. None. Look it up.
Relax, I'm must listed a point of entry. Has nothing to do with guns or anything negitive against Canada. It's just an entry point like say Mexico or any port in the US. Damn you all need to take a chill pill.
WRONG!! How quickly we forget The Millennium Plot – 100 lbs of explosives brought down from Canada in the trunk of a vehicle.
Canada? What about the Mexican border which only exists on paper. As a matter of fact our President Obozo sue's states that try to enforce the border and keep the crossers from happening instead of doing his darn job and protecting the USA. Obozo is a socialist and will stop at nothing to make sure that the USA is put in a situation where we have internal problems we cannot control, defense, economy, rights, freedoms, and on and on. Ask youself, what has he done to make life easier for anyone in the USA busides the Islamic Brotherhood, of which there are 4 members of his staff that heavily influence his decisions. The man is a fraud, a fake, and a lier, perfect politition, but wrong for this country. Why has he spent nearly a million dollars covering his past and sequestering his personal, public, academic, and financial records? Where did that money come from much less the millions he has accumulated in the last 3 years, and don't insult me and tell me it is from books sales.
Ill insult you by calling you an idiot. He's an Ivy league educated lawyer, (On top of being author of multiple books). Hes a socialist by suing states who chose to try and pass laws which violate our own constitution, Surely a patriot like yourself has a copy of the constitution under his pillows. Let me stop you in the street because of the way you look to check your "papers" , why dont you just put yellow stars on them. Who's the Socialist? The Majority of the problems within our country, are people like you and your savior W, who took a Surplus, turned it to a defecit to the chagrin of his big oil buddies. He took more of our liberties away than any president before him (Patriot Act), Took more vacation days then any president before him, and spent more money then any president before him (Iraq, Afghanistan, Bailout) Bailing out the automakers sure seems like a socialist thing of Bush to do doesn't it? Go read a book and stop being a CNN troll.
Good thing U.S. customs is expanding their Port Angeles office . . .
President Obama shold chastise NATO for letting Gadhafi escape! He has a price on his head, so he was a legitimate target! He is most wanted in the World Court, in the Hague. It boggles the mind how stupid NATO has been!
You watch too much television.
Pakistan swears up and down that he's not there.
Probably most of them in China now along with the latest helio technology.
Yep all that there Obamer's fault.
He ain't that smart.
Obviously neither are you !
Nah....it's Bush's fault.
Nah, it's Reagan's fault.
Nah, it's Nixon's fault.
Nah, it William Henry Harrison's fault. Remember him? Shortest presidency ever–died after 32 days. I always like to blame him when things go wrong.
Only 32 days, but damn it all if he wasn't EXTREMELY influencial... what a guy
I think this story is a little overblown don't you think that lybia would have used everything in it's arsnal to fight off the rebels/nato which includes these suface to air missiles to fight off natos air strikes?
The batteries went dead.
Planning on taking a flight over Lockerbie soon, ar we?
Looting these missiles was pre-planned by Gadhafi. No one else could have done it. The dictator knows that, with the 144 tons of gold now in his possession somewhere in Africa, he can outfit these missiles with mini-nuclear heads. The man is a strategic genius, compared to the dumb NATO, which failed to stop his convoy with the gold! My fear is the China will strike a deal with Pakistan, to provide the nuclear warheads, in exchange for gadhafi's gold! This way, it will appear that Pakistan, not China is guilty. The UN must do everything in its power to recover the Libyan gold for the Libyans!
There is no way to attach a "mini" nuclear warhead to a man-portable surface to air missile. The warheads in the missile are about 1 kilogram. A nuclear warhead is, realistically, at least a hundred. (Plutonium is very heavy.) You can't just macgyver them together. And getting a working nuke is very difficult, so far nobody other than nations has ever successfully purchased a working nuclear weapon.
Designing a warhead light enough to put on a missile (much bigger missiles) still takes a significant amount of technology (like hundreds/thousands of scientists/engineers a decade or two) so these can only come from national programs, not somebody in a garage. Most of the details are classified, but at a minimum you have to master complex flying-plate implosion systems, engineer very precise beryllium, plutonium & uranium spheres, high quality microsecond-precise neutron initiators, and most importantly, generate a large amount of tritium. Tritium also decays fairly quickly, so every few years you have to replace it. You can only make tritium in the amounts required in a significant nuclear reactor or specially designed particle accelerator.
It took the USA about 17 years to get this (Polaris missile W-47) of lots of R&D and $$$ and hundreds of nuclear tests in the Cold War.
So what's the problem?
The CIA purchased and sold all these to Gadhafi during the past 30 years.
I'm sure they'll be able to track them, aren't you?
You're a moron, Russia sells the weapons themselves. We're not the only country capitalizing on war.
that can't be! Only Bush has ever done anything bad. There were never any wars, famine, disease, nor disasters before Bush was President. It's all his fault!!
(yes, that's sarcasm)
Not to worry, Obama the Community Organizer has got this under control. The man is an American Disaster...
Boy, do you have issues with democracy or what?
what the hell does obama has to do with this? Blame Obama for everything is stupid.
Be easier to blame Bush or Abe Lincoln.
idk obama helped overthrow gaddaffi which in return helped the missles to be stolen. If obama didn't intervene, we wouldn't be talking about him
let me guess, you're going to blame bush on this one?
no ! ARIZONA is a disater ! getting rid of Black History in the schools there ! Cowards are always keeping their head on a swivel and doing everything they can to keep someone else down because they know that on an equal playing field with proper instruction YOU and YOUR kind would be outshined in intellect. The state of Georgia just cheated THOUSANDS of kids over a period of 10 YEARS out of education. That's a DISATER !
So, NATO has made it possible for al Qaeda to acquire surface-to-air missiles?
This is just one more source.
Thanks Obama. Maybe one of those missles will shoot down some of our troops. Thanks a lot, really, thanks for killing more US soldiers.
So this is President Obama's fault? That's hilarious!
yes let's blame bush for this one. Because as we all know, even though obama made us join this war for absolutely no reason, Bush is the blame for anything bad. Seriously people, how long are you going to blame bush for what obama does?
heyheyhey – they'll continue blaming Bush until Obama gets the intestinal fortitude to change just one of Bush's policies. Which is to say "never". Don't get me wrong, I support Bush. For example, those tax cuts that everyone always bellyaches about. Those tax cuts were for absolutely everyone. Even liberal democrats.
He needs to rethink some of those forays over seas now or even over our territory.I can not figure how so many people were took in by this so called protest for Democracy all over the mid east.The news media fed on this crock while the great fight was going on for democracy.Democracies only can survive but so long. It morphs into socialism in the end.
You have no clue what socialsim is, do you? You just hear the word on Fox news and now keep repeating it. Here's a news bulletin: They don't know what it means either. Apparantly to right wing America, democracy is when I'm in trouble the government helps me out. Socialism is when my neighbour is in trouble the government helps him out.
@jorge: What's your point? Democracy is a good thing. Democracy is a political thing. Socialism is an economic thing. Every democracy that has ever existed, including the socialist democracies, have always included capitalism. This is why every democracy on Earth includes rich people. Even China has millionaires and billionaires ever since the Chinese began to incorporate capitalism into their system. Still a repressive government, but the shift toward capitalism shows that the Chinese regime understands the need for change. The future belongs to democracy and freedom. These things are worth fighting for and we should encourage freedom fighters.
@Jorge: I almost forgot to mention that the US democracy has lasted for over 200 years. Similar democracies around the world have also endured for nearly as long. Democracy seems to be long lasting, if the citizens are willing to protect it. So, not sure why you think they don't last very long. The evidence so far is that they do. The "Arab Spring" is very encouraging. It suggests that era of the dictators is ending. The human future belongs to democracy. And to economic systems that mix capitalism and socialism. It's good to be free. And rich. With a social safety net for those who need it. Even Ronald Reagan, arch capitalist that he was, was on welfare as a child.
U NEED PROFESSIONAL HELP, NOW
Are you really so ignorant that you thought that OBAMA gave these missiles to Libya? Maybe you better read up on your political history.
i was saying thanks for helping the rebels overthrow gaddaffi. Now missles are being looted. if obama didn't interfere, I wouldn't be blaming him.
Maybe you need to think before you type. it might help
@heyheyhey: So, you blame Bush for weapons that were looted in Iraq, right? And you blame Reagan for weapons that ended up in Taliban hands in Afghanistan, right? President Obama's action helped drive Gaddafi out of power. Gaddafi is a terrorist who ordered the bombing of Pan Am flight 103, in which Americans died. Reagan tried to kill Gaddafi in 1986 and failed. Obama was successful in overthrowing Gaddafi in 2011. This was justice. People who loot weapons sometimes end up selling them to the US. This is nothing new.
Yes I balme bush and regean for those. Oh wait did you forget what saddam did? You know poison gas to kill kurds and the minorities of Iraq? Oh wait are you one of those people that believe "terrorism" only occurs when the victim is white and not when the victim is a minoritiy?
No, Obama gave the missles to the new terrorist that have taken over the once stable country of Libya. Which was once a US ally. Not no more, now that Obama has given the country away. You know, he is good at giving away things like Allies, welfare checks, bribes. He gives everything away except jobs. He has no clue here.
FYI.....the missiles being talked about were not made in the US.....they are Russian......
@American Hero: you don't sound like a hero or like an American. President Obama didn't give any missile to any rebels, any more than George W. Bush gave missiles to the insurgents in Iraq who used them to make IEDs to kill Americans, or Ronald Reagan gave missile to the Taliban to shoot down NATO helicopters. President Obama's assistance to the rebels helped bring down the regime of a terrorist who'd ordered the bombing of Pan Am flight 103. Reagan tried to kill Gadaffi in 1986 and failed. Obama tried to drive Gaddafi from power in 2011 and succeeded. Yet you hate Obama and love Reagan and Bush. Please try to act like an American and not a conservative robot..
@American Hero: Lemme guess. You are just another redneck that knows what burning oil smells like in Iraq. Big deal, so do I. The difference is that I don't demand a pat on the back from everyone and think that being a vet automatically validates my point of view.
That was an IDIOTIC assumption ! hey Nostro"damn us" what today's lotto numbers while your predicting the future !