North Korea's success raises stakes for U.S. missile defense system
December 12th, 2012
07:33 PM ET

North Korea's success raises stakes for U.S. missile defense system

By Mike Mount

North Korea's latest missile launch moved the United States into new territory as the success of putting a satellite into orbit could also mean the reclusive country is one giant step closer to firing a missile across the Pacific.

The United States is examining information from Wednesday's launch to gather clues about the capabilities of North Korea's rocket technology that can be converted for use in long-range missiles.

Experts say the launch shows North Korea's rocket has the range to hit Hawaii and parts of the West Coast of the United States.

Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta told CNN's Erin Burnett on Wednesday he is "confident" the United States could stop an incoming missile from North Korea.

"The fact is, we do have a very strong missile defense that would be able to guard against that kind of potential," Panetta said in an interview that aired on CNN's "Erin Burnett OutFront" on Wednesday.

North Korea may not have 'full control' of satellite, U.S. official says

 

But with the success comes more scrutiny of what the United States has in place to stop a missile should one be launched.

The type of missile North Korea launched Tuesday is considered a long-range intercontinental ballistic missile, meaning it is designed to deliver a payload long distances across the globe or into space, depending how it is configured. It is not generally designed to strike at short distances, such as Japan or South Korea.

The U.S. military had said it was on a heightened state of alert while it awaited the launch by the North Koreans. To prepare for the launch, the United States had satellite monitoring of the site. The military also had Aegis radar ships and other monitoring equipment positioned off the coast of Japan.

Those ships have a strong and reliable radar systems and sensors that can detect a launch and track the trajectory of the missile, and can also shoot down missiles in some cases.

Sitting off the coast of Japan, they wouldn't be "positioned correctly to hit a missile like this coming out of North Korea," according to a U.S. defense official. "However, their radars are extremely useful on telling us where the missile is going within seconds."

The North Korean government publicly announced where it intended the missile the missile to, a path that did not go near the United States. But protectively, the Pentagon had in place Aegis ships off Hawaii in case the rocket headed in that direction.

Those ships have the capability to shoot down a missile as it is falling toward the islands, according to a U.S. defense official familiar with U.S. missile defense systems.

Past launches of this type by North Korea, while unsuccessful, have shown that it has the capability to strike the main islands of Hawaii and possibly as far as the northwestern United States, said David Wright, a missile defense expert and co-director of Global Security at the Union of Concerned Scientists.

"This most recent launch is similar to the past ones, so we have been able to do some reverse engineering on the launches and get some idea of what they can do," Wright said.

The United States also has a ground-based missile shield with interceptor missiles in Alaska and California if North Korea, or another adversary, were to aim a missile toward the U.S. West Coast.

The United States has been testing this shield for years now with mixed success, but most believe it could protect against a basic missile launch with no decoy warheads to trick the radar system that would detect the incoming missile and guide interceptor missiles.

Rocket launch causes worries about nukes, Iran and the Pacific

 

"There are people who believe that North Korea would not have decoys on their missiles. In that case we have plenty of interceptors," according to Wright. "I would argue just the opposite, if they did fire something we would likely not know what it would be carrying. It would be unlikely they would fire something that they hadn't put countermeasures on knowing about the U.S. system. I think the U.S. would not be able to rely on its missile defense system."

North Korea's launch culminated with the deployment of a satellite that is circling Earth from the North Pole to the South Pole. The U.S. military said Wednesday it does not believe North Korea has full control of the rudimentary satellite, a U.S official said.

The United States does have the capability to shoot a satellite down with the Aegis interceptor. In 2008, the military successfully tested whether a ship-based Aegis missile system could hit a defunct U.S. spy satellite.

U.S. military officials would not comment on whether the Pentagon might try to shoot down the North Korean satellite, but experts say it would be a highly unlikely move because the satellite appears to pose no threat.

"Shooting a satellite down is very similar to the kinds of tests the U.S. does with its missile defense systems. The satellite will be going about the same speed as a ballistic missile and it will not have any decoys," Wright said.

But he added, "The North Korean satellite was put into orbit about 500 kilometers (310 miles) and I think that's slightly too high for the Aegis interceptor."

Wright said the United States would have a better chance shooting a satellite at high altitudes down if it were to use its ground-based missile systems in Alaska or California.

U.S. allies in the region, like Japan and South Korea, have the ability to intercept a missile like the one fired Tuesday, but not if it is on an upward trajectory aimed at the United States. Their capability would be solely to hit such a missile in the later stages of flight if it were falling into their countries.

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Filed under: Missile launch • North Korea • Panetta • Pentagon
soundoff (340 Responses)
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    April 9, 2013 at 11:56 pm | Reply
  3. James

    Help me

    April 3, 2013 at 11:18 pm | Reply
  4. TJC360

    Even if we blew up 1 ICBM coming towards us, dont you think the fallout would effect everyone. Lets just sit back for the last 15 years while these nut jobs develop our ultimate fate and tell us that they are 5-6 years away from this and that. Its gonna happen...scares the crap out of me.

    Lets find a way to heat our houses and run our cars without the help of these people who hate us, cut off our oil dependency from these countries, then what do they have?...Nada! We knew this in the 70s and here we are still sucking off their only real resource that provides them capitol. OIL.

    December 13, 2012 at 5:39 pm | Reply
    • mickygor

      That's not how nuclear weapons work. They need to be armed and triggered, shooting one down will stop that happening.

      December 14, 2012 at 12:45 pm | Reply
    • Rick from LA

      We use kinetic energy interceptors meaning solid block of dense metal traveling at high speed that rams a target missile. Even if the warhed is hit directly by a kinetic interceptor, the impact wil not cause a nucler explosion. It will scatter the nuclear debris but the effect is not like that of fallout from a nuclear detonation.

      January 3, 2013 at 5:34 pm | Reply
  5. us_1776

    Gotta love their IKEA launch control center.

    Like something out of a "B" movie.

    .

    December 13, 2012 at 5:30 pm | Reply
  6. Tim

    An extra bowl of rice, oooh, and a fish head, goes to the engineers who were behind it all.

    December 13, 2012 at 5:24 pm | Reply
  7. Aaron

    Considering that during the lasted Israeli massacre on Palestinians the Israelis weren't able to stop 100% of the Rockets from Gaza using technology which we sold to them, I don't think this is a true statement from the US Government. However, I don't think North Korea would do something like that. It would be a dumb move. They are just saber rattling like always and will try and use this to their advantage during negotiations with other countries.

    December 13, 2012 at 4:59 pm | Reply
    • Aaron2

      Yes, first it wasn't a massacre on Palestinians. Your own comment contradicts that. Second, we aren't talking about small rockets and missiles that number in the thousands. We are talking about 10 or so intercontinental ballistic missiles. Big difference, much slower and easier to target.

      December 13, 2012 at 5:23 pm | Reply
      • Aaron

        First not sure how my own comment contradicts itself. If you're referring to the fact that the Palestinians tried to defend themselves well that doesn't mean it wasn't a massacre. I'm sure during WWII many victims of Hitler also tried in vein to defend themselves as well, however, it's widely recognized that it was indeed a massacre.

        Second you have your physics mixed up. An intercontinental ballistic missile actually is much faster than the ones fired by Gaza. Long range missiles have to be travelling very fast just to get enough speed to enter earth's orbit and by the way are very hard to target. If they are so easy then why did the US fail so many times before they finally were able to hit one?

        December 13, 2012 at 5:32 pm |
      • Ben Allen

        An ICBM is not a slow and easy to hit target, While the RV is coming in on the target it is travelling about 16,000 miles per hour. It is so fast that if it were going top speed and had explosives detonated right next to it, it would outrun the explosion and not be affected at all. Also, the ICBM is only an easy target on launch. assuming these ICBMs would use MIRV's, you are talking about 8 or so RV's per rocket travelling at 16,000 miles par hour in on their target. and that speed is after getting into the thicker parts of the atmosphere. When they are really far up there, they are going so fast that nothing we have could hit them.

        December 13, 2012 at 6:04 pm |
    • JD

      Good job at comparing apples and oranges. Those two countries were side by side, hence smaller rockets being fired in larger numbers. N.K. is on the other side of the ocean, which means it would have to fire intercontinental rockets, large rockets fired in small numbers due to distance, size, and manning. Overall, your conclusive argument is irrelevant.

      December 13, 2012 at 5:32 pm | Reply
      • Aaron

        What is relevant is that the US missile defense shield still can't hit 100% of them.

        December 13, 2012 at 6:30 pm |
    • Me

      More like Israel defending against the terrorists in Palestine.

      December 13, 2012 at 5:47 pm | Reply
      • Aaron

        Let's see a bunch of people move to Palestine and kick the inhabitants off their land. Then, they rename it to Israel. Who are the terrorists again? Your name is Me. Hmm. That name suits you because it seems that is all you think about.

        December 13, 2012 at 6:32 pm |
  8. rkmkb7

    NK now poses a direct threat to do irreparable harm to thousands of U.S. citizens. If the threat were immediate, that would be grounds for war, acc. to the SCOTUS in the Pentagon Papers case. Contrast with Iran, which does NOT pose a direct, immediate threat to do irreparable harm to thousands of U.S. citizens. I'm not opposed to taking steps to prevent Iran from posing the threat to America NK does. But military action against Iran, with none publicly proposed against NK? Absurd.

    December 13, 2012 at 4:48 pm | Reply
    • Ben Allen

      not thousands, millions, even tens of millions from one warhead with an 8 RV MIRV

      December 13, 2012 at 6:06 pm | Reply
      • Jay

        No, he was right the first time... 1000s maybe 10s of 1000s...but not millions....you dont know your nuclear weapons very well...maybe you should hit the 101 again...

        February 13, 2013 at 6:19 pm |
  9. Greenspam

    Give me a break. N Korea has managed to fire 1 missile and US is running scared? USA has hundreds of thousands of nukes, should people in China and Russia be losing sleep? Give me a break.

    December 13, 2012 at 4:43 pm | Reply
    • MakoTen

      The United States actually has around 2,200 active nuclear weapons and is working to reduce that number down further to about 1,500. It really does not matter cause it is thought that as few as 15-20 would destroy the world.

      December 13, 2012 at 5:02 pm | Reply
      • Ben Allen

        15-20? those must be somewhere in the range of 5 gigatons of yield each. It would take a lot more than 15-20.

        December 13, 2012 at 6:08 pm |
  10. Curtis

    If any country launches a missile that has a trajectory anywhere near the United States it will be shot down before it leaves that countries airspace.

    Fact*

    December 13, 2012 at 4:37 pm | Reply
  11. bezerkur

    Are you telling me we are worried about a 50s style missile when we poured billions in missile defense during the cold war with much more sophisticated and capable missiles of the USSR?

    December 13, 2012 at 4:27 pm | Reply
  12. Ghette Jones

    By the way , if North Korea has a nuclear warhead on its new missile and fires it at the USA , I have read that we have a H- Bomb that destroys a radius of over 100 miles at its epicenter and a blast wave of 250 miles . Umm you know how much Americans like big explosive action movies ...wouldn't it be great to see the big event on CNN ....YIPPIE

    December 13, 2012 at 4:26 pm | Reply
  13. carl

    Can we put the NK Communist party on the missle and fire it towards Jupiter?

    December 13, 2012 at 4:17 pm | Reply
  14. Liberty

    North Korea should have never been allowed to develop nuclear weapons, and they should never have been allowed to develop long-range rockets.

    They shouldn't even be allowed to cook or use sharp objects, without responsible, adult supervision.

    December 13, 2012 at 4:11 pm | Reply
    • AGM

      Why is US, Israel etc are allowed to build/have nuclear weapons and others should not? Is it because you are superior than others? Please ask yourself that. I think we should all disarm then the world would be safe.

      February 21, 2013 at 6:55 am | Reply
  15. Jason B

    Here's my biggest question...where's North Korea getting this stuff? I know the answer is likely Iran, China, or Russia. But I still can't figure how. The NK economy is in the toilet and they really don't have resources to trade that I'm aware of. And I can't imagine any of those 3 countries giving this technology away for free. So how are they getting the resources to build these?

    December 13, 2012 at 4:11 pm | Reply
  16. bspurloc

    YET....... IRAN has this tech... well according to foxfax

    December 13, 2012 at 4:03 pm | Reply
  17. Dan

    N. Korea would be gone if they ever tried this.

    December 13, 2012 at 3:58 pm | Reply
  18. Mister Jones

    We should have shot it down, just to prove this point.

    December 13, 2012 at 3:52 pm | Reply
    • A Reply to Mister Jones

      Assume it was that easy without being retaliated against. Why would anything but US satellites still be in orbit?

      December 13, 2012 at 3:56 pm | Reply
  19. Ahem

    NK will aim the next one into the Choir Loft

    Just to make a point

    December 13, 2012 at 3:45 pm | Reply
  20. cdub2k

    Lets just nuke each other and end all life on this planet.

    Ready.. Break.

    December 13, 2012 at 3:33 pm | Reply
    • Ahem

      NOW do you believe what serial concussions can do to the brain?

      December 13, 2012 at 3:47 pm | Reply
  21. If ORambo has a target then your nuts are toast

    I feel much more safe now... HA HA HA HA...

    December 13, 2012 at 3:32 pm | Reply
  22. Miyafuji

    This is getting me really worried, the Notradamus numbers, the Aztec numbers, Gangnam Style nearly hitting 1B (the zeros will be nine) around this fiasco... I usually am not worried about this kind of stuff, but I;m getting a little nervous about what's next.

    December 13, 2012 at 3:21 pm | Reply
    • krehator

      kookoo

      December 13, 2012 at 3:23 pm | Reply
    • Dipper

      Don't forget Honey Boo Boo.

      December 13, 2012 at 3:47 pm | Reply
    • Bystander

      Your zipper is down.

      December 13, 2012 at 3:48 pm | Reply
    • bspurloc

      u forgot to mention the CIA not being ready to monitor ipv6 traffic

      December 13, 2012 at 4:04 pm | Reply
    • imhem

      Or that Obama was somehow re-elected.

      December 13, 2012 at 4:20 pm | Reply
  23. Michael

    Please, we can't even stop illegals crossing the border of Mexico and Texas and the government thinks they can stop a Chinese Missile BAHAHAHAHA

    December 13, 2012 at 3:11 pm | Reply
    • Hogan's Goat

      "the government thinks they can stop a Chinese Missile " I believe you are fairly ignorant of our military capabilities. We can do a lot of stuff you'd be amazed by. A lot of what we can do wouldn't even be traced back to us . . .

      December 13, 2012 at 3:23 pm | Reply
    • bspurloc

      the missile was made with 1950's Russian technology.... how did China get into this?

      December 13, 2012 at 4:05 pm | Reply
  24. ROCKWOOD

    Send a missile up into to space and shoot that satellite down.....where the heck's Enterprise when you need her?

    December 13, 2012 at 2:57 pm | Reply
    • navyvet1974

      The Navy decommissioned her on Dec 2nd.

      December 13, 2012 at 3:33 pm | Reply
      • GERbinAter

        The other, flying one.

        January 24, 2013 at 4:01 pm |
  25. Buck

    Pyongyang can launch as many missiles as they wish for their propaganda party. However, if they even try to attempt faking human 'spaceflight' like NASA and the Russians, those folks will have another thing coming. Faking humans in space after a rocket launch is OUR technology, with OUR launching pads, OUR deserts/studios and OUR cargo planes for the 'reentry' drops. We don't care if hardware disintegrates upon reentry at hypersonic as do meteors (confirmed during ICBM research), asrto-evolution is OUR invention, so we're not even going to pay attention to Pyongyangs rocket show........

    http://www.fountainsofthegreatdeep.com/IFS.htm

    December 13, 2012 at 2:56 pm | Reply
    • OldJoe

      Anyone noticed that, as soon as the hoax was exposed, we stopped Moon "exploration"?

      Hmmmmm.....

      December 13, 2012 at 3:17 pm | Reply
      • Brian

        Yeah, we faked a lunar landing which would involve a cover up by thousands of NASA employees. Yet, not one person has come out with any evidence.

        December 13, 2012 at 4:03 pm |
      • Adam

        The Russians had spies at Los Alamos during the A bomb development. You think if the landing was faked the Russians would not have exposed it in order to humiliate the US? Think about that.

        December 13, 2012 at 4:08 pm |
    • Hogan's Goat

      You must be one of the stupidest human beings alive.

      December 13, 2012 at 3:24 pm | Reply
    • bspurloc

      their next missions to a Lunar Unicorn finding

      December 13, 2012 at 4:06 pm | Reply
  26. Beavis

    yawn

    December 13, 2012 at 2:49 pm | Reply
  27. DickPerry

    But it can't stop torture or have those who committed crimes against humanity and war crimes pay for it....

    December 13, 2012 at 2:36 pm | Reply
  28. Joe

    If we are confident we can take down a North K. missile, then why didn't we just shoot down the first one. We knew the date, place, and time more or less to be ready. It troubles me more that they chose cheap words versus action.

    December 13, 2012 at 2:31 pm | Reply
    • Bill

      We should have done that but thats way to easy. We will determine that we need to spend another $ trillion on a new missile defense system ( to replace the two we already have) and send NK another $25 mil in aid. This will hold us about 6 months until they fire another one.

      December 13, 2012 at 2:45 pm | Reply
    • Noni

      Why should we shoot it down? If there was a real risk to us, the US would do something. It's better to allow these fools to show what they have to the world. We all should be more worried about what we don't see.

      December 13, 2012 at 2:52 pm | Reply
    • Hogan's Goat

      They weren't shooting at us. It's a satellite launch. If they made a hostile move at us, we'd tell China to make them shut up and sit down. We could wreck NK with five planes and they know it. No nukes, just carpet-bombs.

      December 13, 2012 at 3:27 pm | Reply
      • Welshman

        It's hard to blow somebody back to the stone ages when 98% of their country is already there. That being said, I think you're right – They can keep making themselves look like fools to the rest of the world as much as they want to. I'm more worried about the suitcase bomb from Iran than the flying piece of junk from NK...

        December 13, 2012 at 3:40 pm |
  29. Lisa

    Weren't we confident we'd be in and out of Afghanistan in a year or two? And I believe Iraq was only supposed to take a few months. Nothing like government hubris.

    December 13, 2012 at 2:21 pm | Reply
    • OldJoe

      Where were you all this time, Lisa?

      MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

      December 13, 2012 at 3:19 pm | Reply
  30. Kim Jong No-dong

    "Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta told CNN's Erin Burnett on Wednesday he is "confident" the United States could stop an incoming missile from North Korea."

    Hey Genius, the best way to stop a missile is to ensure it never leaves the ground.

    December 13, 2012 at 2:10 pm | Reply
    • Mandrake

      ...and the best way to make sure the rest of the world hates you is to per-emtively strike another sovereign country that hasn't done anything to you.

      December 13, 2012 at 2:17 pm | Reply
      • Kim Jong No-dong

        You mean one we're technically still at war with. Get it straight.

        December 13, 2012 at 2:21 pm |
      • bspurloc

        U mean the one SK is still at war with? u know the country that is not miles away from the enemy but inches away....
        so if your enemy lived across the street from u with 900 tanks aimed at your house, u r all about your cousin coming over for mischief night, shooting an RPG at them and leaving eh....

        December 13, 2012 at 4:15 pm |
  31. Thom Paine

    The north koreans will lauch a nuke hit the west coast. ogama will spend 5 million in assembling a fact finding
    committee to determine what went wrong.

    December 13, 2012 at 2:02 pm | Reply
    • Bobby Howing

      and then your dream was over and we all returned to reality.

      December 13, 2012 at 2:03 pm | Reply
    • Andy1959

      Hey Thom,

      Despite your lack of sentence structure and English skills, I hear what you're saying. To differ with what I think you said though. I'm going to guess that such an attack would be responded to swiftly and with due cause.

      December 13, 2012 at 2:09 pm | Reply
    • Andy1959

      Thom,

      My apologies! I should have written (to be grammatically correct); "That said though, I'm going to guess that...".

      Beyond that, if Obama (or as you call him, ogama) spends "5 million in assembling a fact finding
      committee to determine what went wrong. (your words)", I think that's money well spent. Roughly the cost of deploying 3-4 cruise missiles.

      December 13, 2012 at 2:17 pm | Reply
      • dike

        if it were up to Thom Paine, he would start with are you with me or against me, now lets blow then up then find out who fired the missiles...

        December 13, 2012 at 2:24 pm |
    • Jason

      What makes you so sure that they're stupid enough to launch anything at our cities and give the US a reason to wipe that chunk of rock off the face of existence?

      December 13, 2012 at 2:46 pm | Reply
      • Andy1959

        um...ah...nothing makes me so sure ... and I hope it never happens!

        December 13, 2012 at 3:37 pm |
      • STAN

        I got to say that it takes a "lot" of presumption to believe that the North Korean leadership is not absolutely out of their minds. If we are judging them my sane standards then we are looking a the wrong people. That said, their tech is not so great. They are still dangerous and crazy.

        December 13, 2012 at 3:48 pm |
      • bspurloc

        So the USA is going to drop a nuke on NKs capital which would then spread nuclear waste to SKs capital?
        ignorant americans should visit the DMZ so they stop thinking their front yard is how the world is

        December 13, 2012 at 4:12 pm |
    • RapidOne

      ugh, you're such a moron, Thom. Shush.

      December 13, 2012 at 3:01 pm | Reply
    • Hogan's Goat

      You need a new name. Thom Paine was a smart guy. How about "Mongo?"

      December 13, 2012 at 3:29 pm | Reply
      • Andy1959

        Thomas Paine once said, “Give to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself – that is my doctrine.” . Chew on that please.

        December 13, 2012 at 3:39 pm |
    • bspurloc

      the gop will then Start a blame Obama campaign to try and make everyone forget 8 years of bush, elect some tea party nut cases declare war on american citizens refuse to pay for bush's wars, call bush's war veterans freeloaders then declare mittens tax exempt...

      December 13, 2012 at 4:10 pm | Reply
  32. Andy1959

    WAR! Huh! What is it good for! Absolutely nothin'...say it again!

    December 13, 2012 at 1:59 pm | Reply
    • Hogan's Goat

      It gets officers promoted faster.

      December 13, 2012 at 3:30 pm | Reply
      • STJ

        ...and lots of enlisted guys killed.

        December 13, 2012 at 4:18 pm |
    • Andy1959

      Damn straight...and that has go to stop!

      December 13, 2012 at 4:44 pm | Reply
  33. ROLL TIDE

    Nobody cares about these slant pigs.

    ROLL TIDE ALL OVER THE GOLDEN DOMERS LOLOOL

    December 13, 2012 at 1:56 pm | Reply
  34. DP

    Poor west coast liberals. Despite the fact that they worship the North Korean’s choice in government, they don’t understand that the North Koreans could care less, and would gladly nuke them if given the opportunity.
    Is it considered a handout if we protect the west coast from nukes raining down on them? I’m split…

    December 13, 2012 at 1:54 pm | Reply
    • Bobby Howing

      You are as dumb as a bag of rocks.

      December 13, 2012 at 2:02 pm | Reply
    • Bill

      You say Liberal like its a bad thing, you dum azz Repuke fle@b@gger

      December 13, 2012 at 2:06 pm | Reply
      • OldJoe

        How about rabid extreme left-wing "progressive"?

        December 13, 2012 at 3:22 pm |
    • Mandrake

      Are you seriously advocating the death of Americans simply because some of their ideologies don't agree with yours? that's UNAMERICAN :-0

      December 13, 2012 at 2:19 pm | Reply
    • Hogan's Goat

      "they worship the North Korean’s choice in government" You may have some sort of brain syndrome, or perhaps worms are breeding behind your eyes. Get help.

      December 13, 2012 at 3:31 pm | Reply
    • Name*JS

      What a lame comment. Pathetic... At least us liberals are patient, thoughtful people. If Bush were in charge he'd simply go invade North Korea and we'd end up with another million dead and trillions of dollars in the hole.

      December 13, 2012 at 4:15 pm | Reply
    • Sten

      @DP

      I live in the west coast, and I don't want to get nuked. Sooo why don't you STFU A hole, and I hope someone finds you and slaps the s*** outta you.

      Have a nice Day! :-)

      December 13, 2012 at 6:00 pm | Reply
  35. cricket

    Other than the idea that NK hierarchy are quite loony, what would they gain by aiming a missile at us?

    December 13, 2012 at 1:51 pm | Reply
    • Tatiana

      KIM JUNG DICKWAD!

      December 13, 2012 at 1:59 pm | Reply
    • Bobby Howing

      they would gain the beat down of a life time. But its not going to happen so it does not matter

      December 13, 2012 at 2:04 pm | Reply
      • OldJoe

        Nope.
        Susan Rice will come up with a video just in time.

        December 13, 2012 at 3:23 pm |
      • Hogan's Goat

        "Susan Rice " I love that you Conzis are so scared of her.

        December 13, 2012 at 3:32 pm |
  36. DickPerry

    So the fear mongering is in full speed ahead.

    December 13, 2012 at 1:50 pm | Reply
  37. TomGI

    The United States is examining information from Wednesday's launch to gather clues about the capabilities of North Korea's rocket technology that can be converted for use in long-range missiles.

    We're always gathering clues. We should have hit that sucker with an airborne laser like we did with the North Korean's first launch. Maybe that's why they moved the launch up and fired it unannounced. But we should quit "gathering clues" and knock those test fires down.

    December 13, 2012 at 1:44 pm | Reply
    • cricket

      Why?

      December 13, 2012 at 1:52 pm | Reply
      • K from AZ

        Are you really that stupid naturally or did you have to work at it?

        December 13, 2012 at 1:59 pm |
    • Mandrake

      You can't simply shoot-down another country's property when its fired over their own airspace. Think about it. What id NK shot down one of our missile tests? You'd be crying out for blood! But now you're advocating doing just that to them. It doesn't make any sense, your logic.

      Stop and think, people. Geez!

      December 13, 2012 at 2:21 pm | Reply
      • OldJoe

        Nope. They can't do it.
        Only the Russians have space-laser technology.

        December 13, 2012 at 3:25 pm |
    • NNN

      Really? And just exactly when was that? Take your medications.

      December 13, 2012 at 2:22 pm | Reply
    • Hogan's Goat

      " We should have hit that sucker with an airborne laser like we did with the North Korean's first launch. " Stop listening to the crazies on the radio. Nothing like that happened. NK is bad at rocketry. Now we are leaning on China with things like "NK's rocket is making Americans shy about buying from China right now" and "if NK causes tensions between our countries, we will lose our supply lines, and so we are going to buy a third less from you while trying out other suppliers." Soon China will tell NK to knock it off before they lose money. All done quietly and without anger and drama.

      December 13, 2012 at 3:37 pm | Reply
  38. David form Chi-Town

    All that NK needs to do is put just one nuke on the tip of a missile and detonate it high in the atmosphere some place over the U.S. causing an EMP blast knocking out a lot of the electrical infrastructure. This needs to be watched closely.

    December 13, 2012 at 1:41 pm | Reply
    • Lila

      The US has close relationships with several countries, bases, ships, shared technology and weapons all over the world. I'm sure they have thought about it.

      December 13, 2012 at 1:47 pm | Reply
    • Bobby Howing

      LoL... David you have a vivid imagination.

      December 13, 2012 at 2:05 pm | Reply
    • Hogan's Goat

      EMPs wouldn't get things in underground bases, like Cheyenne Mountain. If only Cheyenne had power, we would still have full control of our missiles. And we have warships and carriers, and our subs are nightmarishly well-armed. Attacking us is a BAD IDEA. Don't tug Superman's cape.

      December 13, 2012 at 3:40 pm | Reply
  39. K from AZ

    Not with Comrade Obama in charge!

    December 13, 2012 at 1:40 pm | Reply
    • cricket

      I D I O T !!!!!!!!!!

      December 13, 2012 at 1:53 pm | Reply
      • K from AZ

        Who? Comrade Obama?

        December 13, 2012 at 1:58 pm |
    • Jason

      He's not Russian you moron.

      December 13, 2012 at 2:47 pm | Reply
    • Star-Spangled Bullsh!t

      Your man lost. Suck it.

      December 13, 2012 at 3:04 pm | Reply
    • Hogan's Goat

      Are you EVER going to get over having a black president? This childish insisting that he's "a Commie" or pretending he's a Muslim is what lost you the election and the respect.

      December 13, 2012 at 3:43 pm | Reply
    • RTRA

      Must be a Jan Brewer supporter! :(

      December 13, 2012 at 4:05 pm | Reply
  40. m

    What else are they going to say?

    "We have do not have complete confidence in our ability to stop that missile. EVERYBODY PANIC!"

    December 13, 2012 at 1:36 pm | Reply
    • Bobby Howing

      Well we already know we can defend a missle. Our defense is top notch. Especially a rinky dink missle from North Korea.

      December 13, 2012 at 2:06 pm | Reply
  41. dorkdinggler

    Presently the US has returned to pre Jurassic Period times...we are now living in them here in the US Aframerica!

    December 13, 2012 at 1:36 pm | Reply
    • cricket

      Another idiot remark!

      December 13, 2012 at 1:54 pm | Reply
    • johnnyjohnboy

      The illiterate league is up and running today. Read your post before posting.

      December 13, 2012 at 2:11 pm | Reply
  42. Mike

    The problem isn't whether we can or can't beat North Korea. While we (and they) know that any attack on the United States or South Korea would be the absolute end of North Korea, we (and they) also know that any attack on North Korea (including a retaliatory one) would be the absolute end of South Korea. Right now, they have about 50,000 heavy mortars and artillery pieces pointed at South Korea, over half of which can hit Seoul from their position. In the opening hour or so of any war on the Korean penninsula, millions of lives would be lost on both sides of the border.

    December 13, 2012 at 1:31 pm | Reply
  43. Jamma Time

    Do we really need the west coast anyway?

    December 13, 2012 at 1:31 pm | Reply
    • Mandrake

      It is part of America, you know. Are you suggesting that we put fellow Americans at risk simply because you dont agree with them? LOL. Thats really not so smart.

      December 13, 2012 at 2:23 pm | Reply
      • RickInNY

        Uh, you obviously fail to recognize sarcasm when you see it.

        December 13, 2012 at 3:01 pm |
    • Hogan's Goat

      " you obviously fail to recognize sarcasm " He is serious; apparently "let them nuke the West Coast" was the theme of Rev Limbaugh's last sermon. These people have no more loyalty or humanity than hyenas.

      December 13, 2012 at 3:45 pm | Reply
  44. dorkdinggler

    Obama will probably get his AZZ shot full of holes standing and watching North Koreans shoot missiles toward the US!

    December 13, 2012 at 1:24 pm | Reply
    • RTRA

      Your name says it all.

      December 13, 2012 at 4:08 pm | Reply
  45. Lila

    After watching Israel's Iron Dome shoot down rockets, I can't even imagine what we really have. If NK even attempted to attack the US, it would be wiped off the planet and SK would have some new real estate to expand in to.

    December 13, 2012 at 1:20 pm | Reply
    • dorkdinggler

      US is a nation of bighmouthed cowards! Say a lot and DO NUTTIN!!!

      December 13, 2012 at 1:26 pm | Reply
      • TomGI

        Is the #1 coward named "dorkginggler"? Don't know, just asking.

        December 13, 2012 at 1:48 pm |
      • RickInNY

        Actually Dork, we do say a lot, but then we have the b@lls to back it up too. Which pathetic little country are you from?

        December 13, 2012 at 3:04 pm |
      • Hogan's Goat

        Yer a dork, dingler.

        December 13, 2012 at 3:47 pm |
      • RTRA

        Move to NK.

        December 13, 2012 at 4:09 pm |
    • Emigdio Alvarez

      I'm actually expressing confidence in regards to Israel's Iron Dome project.

      December 13, 2012 at 1:40 pm | Reply
      • Lila

        Israel and the US have been working together on that technology so minimum we have that. Knowing how secretive our military can be they probably have much more.

        December 13, 2012 at 1:44 pm |
    • JR

      The Israeli Iron Dome is intended to intercept short and mid-range projectiles, not ICBM's or cruise missiles. A successful missile defense system would require layered defense of radar stations and anti-ICBM missile installations strategically placed around the globe. We've been expanding our missile defense installations, building new installations around the globe, and improving hardware for 10 years, starting in 2002. They are still relatively unreliable, and have lower than ideal interception rates. The problem is that intercepting an ICBM travelling through Low Earth Orbit at 17,000 mph and re-entering for detonation at 8,000 mph is much more difficult than intercepting a Grad rocket travelling at 1,540 mph. ICBM's also have more complex countermeasures and decoys, that make interception a struggle.

      December 13, 2012 at 1:47 pm | Reply
  46. Logic

    The first weapon launched by NK will also be its last. Hard to hold any threat when you have a gun with one bullet unless you mean to shoot yourself...

    December 13, 2012 at 1:20 pm | Reply
    • Canada

      They may just mean that.

      December 13, 2012 at 2:20 pm | Reply
  47. GenYer

    We better be able to stop a missle from North Korea as most of the money we pay in taxes goes into the military budget. Other than that, North Korea needs to jump on the better world band wagon and stop treating it's citizens like garbage. Maybe North Koreans would actually make the country a better plae if they had hope in their lives instead of fear.

    December 13, 2012 at 1:19 pm | Reply
    • GenYer

      Place*

      December 13, 2012 at 1:20 pm | Reply
    • Steve

      Incorrect on budget spending 70% of the US Budget is locked and only controlled by the US Legislature. As for Military Spending it accounts for less than 20% (also includes International Aide for Military) of the actual budget.

      http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=1258

      But I am sure you can use GOOGLE, BING, YAHOO or WIKIPEDIA to find info too.

      December 13, 2012 at 1:50 pm | Reply
  48. Jebediah

    Isn't this all kind of missing the point. Unlike Al-Queda, North Korea is a real country that could be targeted by the US with nuclear missiles in response to a nuclear attack on us. It is still called deterence and it still works. North Korea knows if they launched a nuke at any US territory they would be turned into a glass parking lot with our response.

    December 13, 2012 at 1:12 pm | Reply
    • hansbrix

      Exactly

      December 13, 2012 at 1:20 pm | Reply
    • GenYer

      I disagree. North Korea and its allies want the US to strike first so they can call us war mongerers and justify an allied attack on the US. That is why they will not shoot first.

      December 13, 2012 at 1:32 pm | Reply
      • dorkdinggler

        He who strikes first wins...those that sit on their azzes and watch as cowards LOSE....US is a country of LOSERS...Iran, N. Korea and China will rule the US in a short matter of time!

        December 13, 2012 at 1:39 pm |
      • RickInNY

        Hahahahahaha!...breath....Hahahahahaha! NK, Iran and China? Sounds like the human rights council. They all have old crappy broken down technology. Our Navy would obliterate NK and Iran by itself. Our Air Force would make China light up in the night sky, fool.

        December 13, 2012 at 3:12 pm |
      • Hogan's Goat

        "North Korea and its allies want the US to strike first" Hard fact: if we cut off trade with China, they would be in a severe depression within a month. We'd last more like six months. If NK interferes with trade, China will step on them.

        December 13, 2012 at 3:50 pm |
    • bill

      Damn straight

      December 13, 2012 at 2:34 pm | Reply
  49. Dave Seavy

    Considering we had red flags that something was going to happen shortly before 9-11, I have little – if any – confidence in our defenses. We hear a lot of "we have this and that" but are we being told the truth by our own government? Official honesty is something that's somewhat of a foreign concept, and if they tell me the sun is shining, I go to the window to verify their story.

    December 13, 2012 at 1:12 pm | Reply
    • RTRA

      Consider who was pres at the time!!!

      December 13, 2012 at 4:14 pm | Reply
  50. Jim

    II thought we said we would shoot down anything they sent up last week ??? What happened to that ?? We need somebody with some balls in office to back this stuff up !!

    December 13, 2012 at 1:02 pm | Reply
    • RTRA

      Ask Bin Laden about that... Oh wait, he is at the bottom of the ocean. DIP.

      December 13, 2012 at 4:15 pm | Reply
  51. Won

    China wouldn't let North Korea launch nuclear missile against USA because China doesn't want any occupiers near their border. Therefore China has NK on their leash and wouldn't hesitate to wipe them off if NK keeps acting like 5 years old.

    December 13, 2012 at 12:54 pm | Reply
    • HZ

      China's motive to stop NK would be more about not giving the U.S. an excuse to destroy NK's government or allow SK to take over NK territory. China knows the US wouldn't blame it for an NK attack against the U.S. BUT, I bet you NK can do whatever they want... China could only limit their long term actions.. Not short term decisions.

      December 13, 2012 at 1:26 pm | Reply
  52. Spartacus

    you're not very intelligent are you?

    #1-go look up the definition of Racist.
    #2-I'll bet 250 Million your a Lost Democratic Black Man, which would make You the Racist !!!

    LMFAO

    December 13, 2012 at 12:53 pm | Reply
    • dorkdinggler

      u ain't got 25 cents in ur jeans let alone 250 million! LOL...what a tool!!!

      December 13, 2012 at 1:41 pm | Reply
    • Mandrake

      It's "you're" not "your".

      December 13, 2012 at 2:28 pm | Reply
  53. newenglands

    Of cause, we can. The point is they are be protected to be attacked by own it. Like Israel, or potential Iran.

    December 13, 2012 at 12:47 pm | Reply
    • no

      "Of cause, we can. The point is they are be protected to be attacked by own it."

      Please re-read what you posted. Really? DUH!

      December 13, 2012 at 1:17 pm | Reply
  54. Spartacus

    As a Canadian it does not please me to have to say this but the United States is now a complete and utter "Blowfish" !

    Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla...we're gonna do this, and then we're gonna do that, mnnwhile O-Bama sits there and over and over and over again does 100% of Nothing !!!

    Nothing, this what the Democrats have done through out all of your hitory, spent Billion on meetings to decide what to do that end every single time in your country doing Nothing !!!

    IN January of this past year, only weeks before Bin Laden was somehow found living in Pakistan, Hilary Clinton and Your so called "President" {His One And Only Official Job is to act as Commander In Chief Of The Armed Forces}...Gave Pakistan over 250 Million of your own tax dollars...in Cash...to...once again... Pakistan...if that wasn't the largest display of complete and utter incompetence in U.S. History by any acting president someone is gonna have to show me something, anything, anyone ever did in that office, that was worse !!!! The way things stand right now the truth is George Bush and His son JR were probably the 2 most successful presidential terms in your history and right now that ain';t saying much is it ?

    December 13, 2012 at 12:43 pm | Reply
    • us_1776

      Welcome, racist from the land of cold and dark.

      .

      December 13, 2012 at 12:44 pm | Reply
      • dorkdinggler

        Kiss my white AZZ!

        December 13, 2012 at 1:30 pm |
      • RickInNY

        You may want to look up the meaning of racist, you uneducated boob. Oh, and he's right, Obama sucks on the world stage.

        December 13, 2012 at 3:16 pm |
    • TyroneHogglegg

      Wow, that was probabaly the most insane and balthering post I have ever read....oh wait, you're Canadian...neve mind.

      December 13, 2012 at 1:11 pm | Reply
      • From up north

        Every nation has its share of idiots. He just happens to be one of ours.

        December 13, 2012 at 1:33 pm |
      • bacos

        Yeah, and Dork is one of our morons. I'm sure both countries have plenty of idiots. I know ours does.

        Oh well, at least we can launch satellites that do something (and for decades, too)!

        December 13, 2012 at 2:50 pm |
    • Pragmatic_USMC

      The best moves are those made in secrecy.
      The US should not reveal publicly what it can do until the necessity comes and the measures are used.
      This is not diplomacy but military strategy.
      Why reveal publicly your military capabilities and thus prepare potential opponents with useful data?
      The game to play is to let the NK do what they want to and then defend once NK has crossed the line.

      The attack on Pearl Harbor solidified what everyone but the public knew, that battleships had become outmoded, in favor of aircraft carriers. The public, however, maintained a vision of great battleships as the military force. The military knew better but kept that knowledge secret.

      December 13, 2012 at 1:19 pm | Reply
    • dorkdinggler

      Hey dude...I agree wholeheartedly with you and I AM AN AMERICAN!!! BORN AND RAISED IN THIS NOW COWARDLY COUNTRY. Before WWII and just after it, this country was on the rise. It has been on the decline since 1960 when Kennedy became president!

      December 13, 2012 at 1:34 pm | Reply
      • bacos

        And then in 1986 dorkdingleberries or whatever his name is was born, and then this country was really on the decline, not strictly because of dork himself, but because millions of idiots like his parents have continued to breed and reproduce. Luckily for us, I have this strange feeling that the only "breeding" that Dork is capable of at this point is with his computer. Luckily that is only slightly more impressive than the North Korean's "capabilities."

        December 13, 2012 at 2:42 pm |
      • bacos

        Oh yeah, and I have currently launched an investigation into why Dork is such an immature and helpless loser.

        What that really means is that I don't really care what Dork says or thinks, no matter how regrettable. I'll just keep my eye on him because truthfully that is all that is really needed.

        But make no mistake, if he came near me in any way, I would fire one AEGIS guided cruise missile fist into what is left of his teeth. Hopefully this wonderful analogy will prove useful to anyone on this impressively intelligent posting board, whether they are American, Canadian, Dork, or otherwise.

        All hail H.W., W., and Obama! (and Chester Arthur, too!)

        December 13, 2012 at 2:48 pm |
    • RTRA

      Try us big boy. It sounds like you are the only one talking who can't back it up. Tool.

      December 13, 2012 at 4:19 pm | Reply
  55. us_1776

    And on the 451st attempt they actually got something to work.

    .

    December 13, 2012 at 12:42 pm | Reply
    • Sean

      And all they had to do was starve their entire population for several decades to pay for it.

      December 13, 2012 at 12:53 pm | Reply
    • TyroneHogglegg

      They just needed larger rubber bands....

      December 13, 2012 at 1:13 pm | Reply
  56. empresstrudy

    As card carrying CNN liberals we can only pray to He Who Does Not Exist that the peaceful peaceloving North Koreans of peace nuke us all.

    December 13, 2012 at 12:38 pm | Reply
    • us_1776

      Sorry, warmongerers, the Treasury is now closed.

      .

      December 13, 2012 at 12:43 pm | Reply
  57. RayB

    Why would North Korea attack the US with a nuclear weapon on an ICBM? We would – first – be able to shoot it down and – secondly – respond with a nuclear strike that would wipe them out.

    December 13, 2012 at 12:31 pm | Reply
    • mike

      The cold war called, it wants its rhetoric back.

      December 13, 2012 at 12:38 pm | Reply
  58. dscon

    US is Confident about missle defense...........
    ROTFLMAO
    US and CONFIDENCE. will never be used in a sentence together,
    as long as Obama is in control of our Foreign Affairs and our Economy.

    December 13, 2012 at 12:28 pm | Reply
    • RayB

      Tell that to UBL.

      December 13, 2012 at 12:32 pm | Reply
      • John

        Amen

        December 13, 2012 at 12:39 pm |
    • Spartacus

      well said, biggest mess up in US history bar none, the facts show it !!! The Pakistan move alone, giving them $250 million American Tax dollars in Cash, and then being completely embarrassed, heck embarrassing the world by having him be found and killed there weeks later, by our own intelligence !!!

      December 13, 2012 at 12:58 pm | Reply
    • HZ

      The US had working missile defense in the 1970s but that system used nuclear tipped interceptors and since it's not PC to fire nukes into the atmosphere anymore a non-nuclear alternative had to be found. Missile Defense works against small adversaries. It would not work against a widespread attack by Russia or China since it wasn't designed to do that (for political reasons).

      December 13, 2012 at 1:28 pm | Reply
    • RTRA

      Why are you people living here, please leave and take your loser azzes with you.

      December 13, 2012 at 4:22 pm | Reply
  59. Concerned American

    We have one of the most corrupt governments in the world across our southern border in Mexico. The Narco-Terrorists have killed well over 30,000 people as it is and they sell poison to our nation's youth. We need to worry about what is going on in Mexico not Syria, Iran, or N. Korea.

    December 13, 2012 at 12:26 pm | Reply
  60. Ronen

    Can we trust NORAD when every year they tell us they track Santa but never even taking one blurry picture?

    December 13, 2012 at 12:05 pm | Reply
    • ConfucianScholar

      I believe half of those blurry pictures of big foot are really of Santa.

      December 13, 2012 at 12:24 pm | Reply
  61. ArchieDeBunker

    North Korea is not about to launch a missle of any kind at the U.S. They know that they would be obliterated in nothing flat if they were to do so. We are in far more danger of them selling nuclear weapons to terrorists who would then try to smuggle them in to the U.S. or one of our allies and detonate them. We need to make it perfectly clear to them and to Iran that if any nuclear weapon EVER goes off in the U.S. we will retaliate against the people who made the weapon and sold it to the terrorists. The Communist dictatorship of North Korea is totally devoid of any sort of conscience or willingness to be part of the world community that the only thing that will prevent them from this is the fear of retaliation. Our "leaders" (if Obama and his nitwits can be called "leaders") need to make it very plain to the leaders of North Korea that they will be targeted immediately in the event of a nuclear attack against the U.S.

    December 13, 2012 at 11:59 am | Reply
    • Sid Airfoil

      What makes you think they haven't made it clear to NK that we would retaliate against a nuke on our territory? Are you arrogant enough to think that your government informs YOU about everything it does? That kind of threat is better done in private so that everyone has a face-saving way out of a confrontation, and doesn't feel obliged to do something stupid just to avoid looking weak. Only Republicans think that it shows strength to posture and beat one's chest. It's weak people who feel obliged to show off how "strong" they are.

      Sid

      December 13, 2012 at 12:18 pm | Reply
      • dpnelson1978

        If only leverage was that simple.

        December 13, 2012 at 12:36 pm |
      • Joe Mama

        LOL what are you talking about? Would we retaliate over a nuclear strike against us? I'm pretty sure any human on the planet that knows what a nuclear weapon is knows the answer to that. Why would we need to tell someone that explicitly???

        December 13, 2012 at 12:37 pm |
  62. Shannon Cole Bailey

    North Korea is China's ally, but the U.S. can not stop China.., nor Russia.. People don't realize how powerfull China has become, and what they are capable of .. The U.S. does not have the edge over them... The power of China, from " Westerns point of view " is too close to the power the U.S. possess, that a sober assesment of the situation would suggest, there would be no guarantee of victory in a conflict with China as the repercussions would be crippling for the U.S. Kingdom...

    December 13, 2012 at 11:48 am | Reply
    • Joe

      The Chinese may be number in making substandard drywall and rubber vomit, but the Chinese military doesn't hold a candle to the US and its' allies in the region. Dont' believe the hype.

      December 13, 2012 at 11:59 am | Reply
    • Brian

      Not sure where you are getting your information, or lack there of, but Russia and China pose no threat to the US military. China barely has a Navy and our Air Force is far superior. You cannot win a war with a billion people stuck on your own soil. The US has, by far more capabilities than China in these two areas. Russia would be more of a challenge, but the Cold War is over.....

      December 13, 2012 at 12:36 pm | Reply
    • dilitot

      You have one of the stupidest names I've ever seen. Stupid name, stupid comments, well I guess you're just stupid...

      December 13, 2012 at 1:11 pm | Reply
  63. Andy1959

    To me this seems like a perfect time to demonstrate our capability and resolve. If the rocket goes outside N. Korean airspace...shoot it down. What a message that would send!

    December 13, 2012 at 11:45 am | Reply
    • Star-Spangled Bullsh!t

      What is this....."resolve"...that you speak of?

      December 13, 2012 at 11:51 am | Reply
    • Daremonai

      I am not sure that would be a very good message.

      December 13, 2012 at 11:55 am | Reply
    • Andy1959

      I replied to SSBS but it didn't appear. What I mean by 'resolve' is to show despotic and 'bullying' regimes that we're watching and will respond appropriately.

      December 13, 2012 at 12:07 pm | Reply
  64. Dasea

    The microscopic arms race with the albeit very honorable North Korean mini state seems only to disturb our neighbors to the north, then south a little friends in Russian Polar lands. It was quite clear the Americans were unready, and quite unable to keep a Russian Land to Air missile launcher from parking, arming, and firing it's rocket into orbit. but just weeks after another "failed launch" and a lot of this talk about north korea. North Korea does not rival US in missiles, but your very loudly projecting the same language to the former soviet empire. Who responded.

    December 13, 2012 at 11:23 am | Reply
    • Rizzo

      What in god's name are you talking about? North Korea being honorable? Why don't you ask why half the country is starving to death while the government stuffs themselves. Oh, and North Korea was not a part of the Soviet Union you knucklehead, they were the puppets of the Chinese. Trust me, the U.S was ready for this launch and will be in the future

      December 13, 2012 at 11:38 am | Reply
      • Star-Spangled Bullsh!t

        He never said it was part of the Soviet Union.

        December 13, 2012 at 11:44 am |
      • Kim J. Un

        dont worry for all the n. korea lover, move there. and you will have a once in a lifetime experience.

        December 13, 2012 at 11:55 am |
  65. Wowza

    No No No... People that voted and elected the same president do not ask for the military or any private/public company to develop new systems when one of the primary goals is to cut military spending substantially..

    December 13, 2012 at 10:50 am | Reply
    • Fernando

      It has to be one or the other?

      December 13, 2012 at 11:24 am | Reply
    • chris

      That's right. and good luck you guys. that will be another suprise attack (1941 Pearl Habor and 9-11-01)

      December 13, 2012 at 11:55 am | Reply
      • Oh right

        And how did that work out for Hiroshima and UBL?

        December 13, 2012 at 3:30 pm |
  66. WDS

    I am a lot more worried about a North Korean auto-piloted (via GPS) freighter sailing into a US harbor than a missile. The freighter tech is around, in common use, and very reliable today. Plus a nuke on a freighter can be a big clumsy thing like their current nukes are.

    December 13, 2012 at 10:43 am | Reply
  67. Ari for Peace

    Ronald Reagan when meeting with Mikhail Gorbachev said something to the effect that if martians were to attack, the USA and Russia would be allys. It would make more sense for every nation in the world to develop and contribute a UN administered World Missle Defense System that would protect every nation against attack. These nations incude Iran, North Korea, or any other unstable nation. Also, this should protect the Super Powers against another Super Power threatening it with weapons of mass destruction. Additionally, the system might have applications from defending US from Extra-terrestrial threats like comets, asteroids, and other risks.

    December 13, 2012 at 9:58 am | Reply
    • Maine liberal

      In 30 years it has not worked, even when we know and control all the variables

      December 13, 2012 at 10:21 am | Reply
    • TSB8C

      And then we can all sing "Kum ba yah" around the camp fire. Time to wake up and face the realities of the world we actually live in.

      December 13, 2012 at 11:18 am | Reply
    • PatsFan1967

      What a foolish, or rather childish, view. The United Nations has accomplished almost nothing to bnetter the world in the last 30 years. NATO has accomplished far more, because unlike the U.N. they can make a decision and act upon it.

      December 13, 2012 at 11:52 am | Reply
  68. leitrim

    Well you can be certain that the Pentagon is happy about this launch –another chance to fleece teh American People of their hard earned money so that this group can get fat and happy –this stuff is all a charade to keep the budget deficit up there –under the guise of fear–we cant settle the budget issue and now were talkiing about missile sytems–for Gods sake when are the American People going to wake up - The Chines probably told them to send it so we could continue to run up the dificit. It is such a sham

    December 13, 2012 at 9:57 am | Reply
    • Mandrake

      Reading most of the comments here, it looks like the American people are NEVER going to wake up, sadly. They count on that. Fear and hype keep the money flowing into their pockets!

      December 13, 2012 at 10:04 am | Reply
    • Maine liberal

      This is welfare to the miltary industrial complex : boeing lockheed martin.
      in 30 years this hasnt worked even when we control all the variables

      December 13, 2012 at 10:24 am | Reply
    • Wowza

      OK, say we just eliminate the military all together, hypothetically. What do think will happen?

      December 13, 2012 at 10:53 am | Reply
      • Star-Spangled Bullsh!t

        Oh, do tell us.

        December 13, 2012 at 11:12 am |
      • Mandrake

        we sure would save a lot of money and have a much more prosperous economy! you guys act like the rest of the world is just waiting to blow us up. do you really believe that?

        December 13, 2012 at 11:17 am |
      • Samir

        Those who have no military are bound to be ruled by those who do.

        December 13, 2012 at 11:28 am |
  69. SayanIndia

    Everybody seems oblivious to the fact that most North Korean ballistic missiles are liquid fuelled and need to “refuel” for hours on the launch pad prior launch, thus presenting themselves juicy targets for vigilant adversaries.

    Also the liquid fuel is highly toxic and when blown up…

    Sayan.

    December 13, 2012 at 9:55 am | Reply
    • Ahem

      You don't need to type "Sayan" at the end. It's already in your screen name.

      December 13, 2012 at 3:33 pm | Reply
  70. matt

    these countries like north Korea are flooded with anti American propaganda starting in childhood. that's one reason it is still a communist country, while here north Korea, no.big deal, if you were raised everyday to fear and hate something, if one day you got a chance to hurt it, you probably eventually would. it might not be the government, the country could fall into civil war, there could be a coo, a rogue General, it is a possibility a version of this rocket could be aimed at us.

    December 13, 2012 at 8:57 am | Reply
    • Mandrake

      For someone that spells "coup" as "coo", you sure seem to fancy yourself an expert on North Korea and geopolitics! LOL!

      December 13, 2012 at 9:00 am | Reply
      • Easy fella

        @Mandrake,

        Why is it that when dumb people can't defend their arguement, they attack others? Do you feel so insecure in your statements that you have to accuse the US of "warmongering" instead of putting "all that moneyinto jobs and schools"? Did you really accuse someone of not knowing the facts in one post, then say that we're not at war with the DPRK in another? Have you really, actually implied that anyone has used nuclear weapons at ANY point in history aside from the United States on two targets during WWII? I think that you're just trolling, because I fail to comprehend how anyone could actually be stupid and still remain conscious.

        December 13, 2012 at 9:12 am |
    • SayanIndia

      @matt, Hasten the coup by shooting down few of their rockets and thereby puncturing the inflated images of “Dear Leaders”. I do not consider Koreans as dumb whether residing North or South of the “parallel”.

      Sayan.

      December 13, 2012 at 9:11 am | Reply
  71. wjmccartan

    It would be horrible if an American plane were to accidently lose its ordinance while flying over North Korea, and it would be even worse if it fell on North Korea's rocket program, come on mistakes happen every day. Although what I really like is the spontaneous dancing in the streets, now how cool were those guys. Nuclear warheads and Godizilla we in the west are in for it now.

    December 13, 2012 at 8:56 am | Reply
    • Mandrake

      Violate a sovereign country's airspace for no reason? If they did that to us... We'd shoot them down. By that logic, they'd have the same right to shoot us down. Sounds like a really bad idea to me....

      December 13, 2012 at 9:05 am | Reply
      • Stupidity is rampant

        Do you honestly think that we(the U.S.) don't have countries out there that want us removed from the human population? I always considered some extreme liberals to be a bit slow, but seriously? Do you follow the news, or perhaps read history books?

        December 13, 2012 at 1:14 pm |
      • Ahem

        Stupidity is Ranting

        December 13, 2012 at 3:36 pm |
  72. SayanIndia

    Air Launched Hit-to-Kill (ALHTK) concept will gather momentum with Lockheed Martin air launched Patriot and Raytheon Network Centric Air Defence Element (NCADE) to take out the “villains” in the boost phase.

    Sayan.

    December 13, 2012 at 8:56 am | Reply
  73. Choir Loft

    Did anybody bother to notice the trajectory of the rocket? It went to the southwest – not toward the east – toward the US. Read the stories for trajectory content only. N Korea did that for a reason.

    It was a much riskier trajectory with the possibility of debris coming down in populated areas – areas that could recover parts of the rocket for study or cause a real poliical mess. Instead the N Koreans chose to take a chance.

    What is their purpose for firing in that direction? I'd really like to know or at least read something approaching informed intellectual interpretation. American media is too jacked up and self-important to bother to ask the question.

    but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

    December 13, 2012 at 8:23 am | Reply
    • Mandrake

      Sadly... Your sensical logic doesn't apply to all these illogical "commie-haters" who are looking for an excuse to go to war with North Korea :(

      December 13, 2012 at 9:08 am | Reply
    • empresstrudy

      Launching to the west is actually harder to do. That they showed that capability is interesting and of great value to their Iranian clients who also want to launch to the west.

      December 13, 2012 at 9:47 am | Reply
    • Star-Spangled Bullsh!t

      An interesting point, though if they really wanted to hit the US they'd send it east.

      December 13, 2012 at 11:28 am | Reply
    • Alex

      To achieve a polar orbit with the payload, a sattelite.

      December 13, 2012 at 11:51 am | Reply
      • Ahem

        and sun-synchronous so the NKoreans know what time it is once a day

        December 13, 2012 at 3:39 pm |
  74. Matt

    it doesnt matter....even if we were under a grave nuclear threat from north korea.... under president obama we would do absolutely nothing but talk about it everyday for the next six months.... just like iran.... just like benghazi libya..... just like syria.... wont do anything.....

    December 13, 2012 at 7:58 am | Reply
    • jp

      rothschild bank have 2 more countries to own untill it holds the complete global financial system.
      they have recently converted libya, serya, iraq, tran... (see the pattern here)
      soon money will have no value because it will be owned by one company.... then what next??

      December 13, 2012 at 8:12 am | Reply
      • Choir Loft

        I disagree with your banking assumptions. Iran recently brokered oil sales to Turkey using GOLD as an exchange medium. This created two problems.
        1. The commerce in oil violated a NATO boycott of trade with Iran. Turkey is a primary member of NATO and Obama was not happy about it.
        2. The exchange medium was gold, not dollars – not worthless western currency. The trade in oil had been approved by NATO for Turkey, but not the use of gold as payment. The hollering was all about using gold instead of western banking currency (dollars or euros).

        I think you're on the right track about the influence of the western financial cartel. One of the biggest political issues today isn't terrorism or regional politics. It's the economy and the financial struggle to continue to maintain western financial hegemony over the planet. With the rise in middle east oil and chinese manufacturing, the west is in serious trouble.

        but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

        December 13, 2012 at 8:33 am |
      • Mandrake

        Sorry, but could you please point to "serya" and "tran" on a map for us all? Cause if you ask me, they're about as real as the "Rothschild Conspiracy".

        December 13, 2012 at 9:16 am |
    • tom

      ...just like Bin Laden?

      December 13, 2012 at 8:18 am | Reply
      • Samir

        who?

        December 13, 2012 at 11:29 am |
    • Star-Spangled Bullsh!t

      *sniff*....*whimper*........oh, if only we had a big HE-MAN Reeeeeeeepublican to stand-up for 'Merca,.....*sniff*.

      Four more years of listening to neocon, chickenhawk whining will be music to my ears.

      December 13, 2012 at 11:59 am | Reply
      • Samir

        Oh please, and all you do is worship your God King Obama.

        December 13, 2012 at 2:08 pm |
  75. makes sense

    I think the United States funded this launch to trick Americans into funding more missiles.

    December 13, 2012 at 7:55 am | Reply
    • Mandrake

      This makes sense when you consider how much money is being spent on our military-industrial complex... someone is profiting from all that money (think: the likes of Haliburton, Raytheon, etc) and they're not eager to have their cashflow cut off!

      War/death for profit! Welcome to America and the free-market economy!

      December 13, 2012 at 9:18 am | Reply
  76. ZIZINGA JACKSON

    Whether you like it or not AMERICA is the mightiest whether you like it or not. If you don't like it please GET OUT NOW. They will hit any aggressors believe it or not. We don't want dictators and those small nations that think can equal America. Please America go ahead please go. Have you forgotten it is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?

    December 13, 2012 at 3:35 am | Reply
    • Choir Loft

      Not the mightiest.

      Google the Sunburn Missile. Putin is building new stealthy bombers to deliver it. A new type warhead is also available. It's called a TNW, tactical nuclear weapon and is specifically designed for the battlefield. One shot can wipe out an entire brigade.

      Leave the country? Do you not know that expatriation is impossible? Virtually every country has closed its borders to immigration. Google it if you don't believe me.

      Lose your simplistic answers and blind nationalism. America is in serious problems and fantasies of old glory won't solve them.

      but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

      December 13, 2012 at 9:05 am | Reply
    • Mandrake

      "They will hit any aggressors believe it or not"... probably so... so why don't we just not play aggressor and stay the F out of their business just like we expect them to stay out of ours? Why is everyone so gung-ho thining America has some god-gioven right to rush in and bomb anyone who disagrees with our politics and way of life? That's actually a decidedly UN-American philosophy. Land of the Free... remember all that? Freedoms, liberties, etc...?

      "Have you forgotten it is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA?"... no... but at least some of us still understand what the USA stands (or is at least SUPPOSED to stand for), which is not randomly bombing other nations- thats called TERRORISM.

      December 13, 2012 at 9:26 am | Reply
      • S

        well said.

        December 13, 2012 at 9:43 am |
      • johnny

        definitely agree with. Im tired of seeing the U.S, "aid" other countries and spread democracy like we were asked or told to do. We have nothing to do with the livelihood of other countries and we have no right to assist them when we cannot even assist ourselves. Why try and manage the world when you have been unable to manage yourself.

        December 13, 2012 at 12:10 pm |
    • Ahem

      King _ Jong __ will load his azz and his monkey into the next rocket and get the He77 out alright

      December 13, 2012 at 3:44 pm | Reply
  77. Mike

    North Korea isn't going to fire a missle at the US any more than the USSR was going to fire one at us in 1962. If they did their country would be toast within a few days and they know it.

    December 13, 2012 at 1:30 am | Reply
  78. tomboy30

    is war the answer to anything? But it will never end until we are all gone.

    December 13, 2012 at 12:50 am | Reply
    • Carlos Ruiz

      Please and thank you does not work in the real world. You may hate it but your ability to live your life is completely and utterly tied to your capacity to deter your would be attackers. And although you are right we won't see an end it is also true is you and everyone else like you are likely to die in peace of old age and although you may hate it it is peace made through war.

      December 13, 2012 at 1:07 am | Reply
      • Choir Loft

        War is obscenely expensive and pollitcally risky. Adolph Hitler once said that "going to war is like entering a dark room. You don't know what you'll find in there." Too bad the man didn't listen to his own advice.

        There are other better ways to resolve differences. Mahatma Ghandi led a gunless revolution and freed his nation from foreign domination. It can be done.

        The real world is not built upon hugs and kisses, but neither does any real solution arrive at the point of a gun.

        but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

        December 13, 2012 at 8:56 am |
    • Samir

      War is part of life bud. Life itself is a constant war. Was that way before humans, will be that way long after we are gone.

      December 13, 2012 at 11:30 am | Reply
  79. Alex279

    Based on the flame pattern of its exhaust plume, the missile shown in the photograph above is definitely a solid-fuel ballistic missile, most likely US-own Minuteman II, or, even most likely its missile-defense variant (it uses surplus first stages from Minuteman II) photographed during a test.

    North-Korean rocket is a liquid fuel, UDMH+NH4, type, which produces very characteristic flame with orange-to-violet hues and very little smoke.

    So why a wrong photograph is placed here and why the audience is treated as idiots who can swallow everything they are fed by the media?

    December 13, 2012 at 12:29 am | Reply
    • tom

      News organizations often show stock photos along with articles. This practice has been going on for decades, if not longer.

      December 13, 2012 at 8:21 am | Reply
    • Choir Loft

      Nice catch. Thanks man.

      December 13, 2012 at 8:59 am | Reply
  80. Name*Ed

    I dunno but i think mandrake lives in reality like me. We wonder why we got problems with everyone else in the world. Well gee. Is it any wonder if we quit policing and engaging in entangling alliances maybe 9/11 might never of happened.

    December 13, 2012 at 12:04 am | Reply
  81. disgustedvet

    I have a proposal. In view of this action and the soon to be equally armed Iran,let us scrap much of our missile defense systems around the World and gut our Defense Budget. That will show them we mean business by golly.

    December 12, 2012 at 11:13 pm | Reply
    • TexMan

      Send an email to Norquist and the GOTP. They engineered the sequestration.

      December 12, 2012 at 11:15 pm | Reply
      • disgustedvet

        Ah yes,the Blame Game. Wen all else fails and you have no answer,play the blame game. So David Brockian.

        December 13, 2012 at 1:12 am |
    • Mandrake

      How About educate our kids and build jobs? Who needs all this warmongering?

      December 12, 2012 at 11:24 pm | Reply
      • disgustedvet

        Our "progressive " education system cannot teach Little Johnny to read and you expect philosophy ? You must be a comedian.

        December 13, 2012 at 1:11 am |
  82. Mandrake

    If America didnt act like the self-elected boss of the world all the time (we're not), we wouldn't have to worry about every piddling little developing nation that was developing arms. We make ourselves a target. This saber-rattling and boosting of the military-industrial complex is sickening.

    December 12, 2012 at 10:46 pm | Reply
    • Mr. Mike

      Mandrake you are a dick. We have been the only power to use nukes and have not used them since. The stakes are higher. We are mature. Others are unproven saber rattlers. Walk softly and carry a big stick.

      December 12, 2012 at 11:04 pm | Reply
      • Mandrake

        Nothing you said is true. Study your history.

        December 12, 2012 at 11:23 pm |
      • Mandrake

        To "use nukes"? A google-search indicates that a number of other countries (Russia/USSR, France, the U.K., China, India, Pakistan, North Korea, and possibly Israel) have exploded nuclear weapons as part of the testing for their own nuclear programs.

        So yeah.

        December 13, 2012 at 9:29 am |
  83. Mandrake

    North Korea is going to attack us... Why? I'm not sure they are. Who cares. America has become an imperialist target. It's only our own fault, sadly. :(

    December 12, 2012 at 10:39 pm | Reply
    • disgustedvet

      Wear YOUR guilt proudly but do not include me.

      December 12, 2012 at 11:15 pm | Reply
      • Mandrake

        Facts are facts whether you agree with them or not.

        December 12, 2012 at 11:25 pm |
  84. TexMan

    One word ....... SEQUESTRATION .....

    Ask Norquist and the GOTP what it means and who brought it to be.

    December 12, 2012 at 10:24 pm | Reply
  85. Dr. Salah Sultan

    More sabre rattling from the murderous USA. North Korea isn't Iraq. The US military is vastly overrated, and can be defeated

    December 12, 2012 at 10:06 pm | Reply
    • Eric

      Dear Dr: I throw a shoe in your general direction. May pigs roam freely throughout your home. America is great. Have a nice day.

      December 12, 2012 at 10:19 pm | Reply
      • Mandrake

        America is great? Sorry man... 1950 called and wants its rhetoric back :(

        December 12, 2012 at 10:41 pm |
      • FutureSEAL

        The 1950s called they're excited they have a phone that could call the future

        December 12, 2012 at 11:29 pm |
    • Really

      Your a special kind of stupid huh

      December 12, 2012 at 10:27 pm | Reply
      • Mandrake

        Do you really still think America is #1 at everything? If so, you've been fooled.

        http://freedomchannel.blogspot.com/2007/07/abc-2020-is-america-1-with-john-stossel.html

        December 13, 2012 at 9:20 am |
    • arrivedin55

      Yes, others may gang up on us and possibly defeat. BUT, YOU ARE GONNA GET HURT! YOU ARE GONNA KNOW YOU WERE IN A FIGHT AND WHEN THEY REACH MY HOME I WILL GO DOWN FIGHTING!
      American's are not evil, bad people! I would guess where ever you live and whatever your beliefs are you must have no bad, evil folks! Thought there are good and bad/evil in all parts of the world. Bet ya the good far outnumber the bad.
      OVERRATED...MURDEROUS...YOU ARE WRONG!

      December 12, 2012 at 11:34 pm | Reply
      • Mandrake

        When they reach your home? The North Koreans? Huh? What are you smoking? We're not at war with North Korea.

        December 13, 2012 at 8:31 am |
  86. seanpnicholas

    Their little "Model T" comm sat is probably powered by a 1V turbine driven by a gerbil wheel. These guys are nothing more than screaming babies at the kiddies' table, hoping their bad behavior merits a little attention from the grown-ups. Instead of paying their bluster undo concern, we should just send them to bed without supper.

    December 12, 2012 at 10:06 pm | Reply
  87. KELLY

    I SAY WE NUKE THEM. AND BE DONE WITH IT.

    December 12, 2012 at 9:39 pm | Reply
    • Mandrake

      Yeah. Then we can have Hiroshima or Dresden on our consciences again, with 100,000 civilians dead. Brilliant. Do you really think that will do any good besides making the rest of the world hate us even more rhan they already do?

      December 12, 2012 at 10:57 pm | Reply
      • TexMan

        Well ... perhaps the will stop gnikcuf with us and testing our resolve.

        December 12, 2012 at 11:02 pm |
      • FutureSEAL

        Mandrake. If you don't like America you can get out!!

        December 12, 2012 at 11:33 pm |
      • Star-Spangled Bullsh!t

        TexMan – is this the same "resolve" that we've "shown" while being fought to a standstill by 12th-century rag-clad peasants for over a decade?
        FutureSeal – suuuuuurrrrre you are..........hahahahahaha.

        December 13, 2012 at 11:41 am |
  88. lucifer

    We'll beside that we need to ensure our drones will pick up any threat posed by north korea keep a lid man we cant pull off a no-fly zone over north korea

    December 12, 2012 at 9:27 pm | Reply
  89. denis

    not a problem, the pentagon can use some of the armed drones patrolling our skies to take out any rogue missiles<

    December 12, 2012 at 8:32 pm | Reply
  90. JAMES FROM OKINAWA

    JUST PUTTIN THIS OUT EVERYONE, THE ROCKET THAT NORTH KOREA SHOT WAS ACTUALLY A SATELITE THAT WAS MOUNTED IN THE INSIDE. PEOPLE KEEP BLABERING ABOUT IT WAS A MISSLE TRYING TO TEST NUCLEAR MISSLES. I HAVE ENCOUNTERED CORRECT INFORMATION ABOUT WHAT IT WAS, IT WAS FLYING OVER OKINAWA WHEN I WAS AT SCHOOL SO PLEASE LISTEN TO ME. THERE NOT TRYING TO HURT US IT WAS JUST A STAGE 1 AND STAGE 2 SATELITE THAT WAS FULLY SUCCESSFUL ON ENTERING OUTSIDE OUR ATMOSPHER THANK YOU AND BELIEVE ME.

    December 12, 2012 at 8:14 pm | Reply
    • The_CIA

      Why would we believe you? You aren't even smart enough to figure out how to work your CAPs lock key.

      December 12, 2012 at 8:41 pm | Reply
    • ...

      You can put any type of payload you want into a rocket. The point is to test the rocket itself, not the payload.

      December 12, 2012 at 9:44 pm | Reply
    • Big Man

      You stupid commie.

      December 12, 2012 at 9:51 pm | Reply
  91. Thomas

    Since west coast is primarily occupied by Democrats, why would Republicans want to spend more money defending west coast?

    December 12, 2012 at 8:13 pm | Reply
    • ...

      That's only the electoral college representation. It's still a mixed collection of Repubs and Dems over there.

      December 12, 2012 at 9:43 pm | Reply
    • Mandrake

      The west coast is populated by AMERICANS. Your partisan politics are divisive and damaging.

      December 13, 2012 at 9:37 am | Reply
  92. Joop

    Great, let's keep pumping a huge excess of money into our defense until we are all broke, The Pentagon must be so happy with North Korea!

    December 12, 2012 at 8:00 pm | Reply
    • Kevin

      You're an idiot Joop, just wait until they use that missile against us, you stupid Liberal.

      December 12, 2012 at 9:23 pm | Reply
      • Mandrake

        Use a missile against us? Why? We're not at war with them.

        December 12, 2012 at 10:43 pm |
      • TexMan

        I think that is what they said at Pearl Harbor too.

        December 12, 2012 at 10:44 pm |
      • nordicg3k

        Mandrake, if you knew your history you'd know that in fact we actually are at war with North Korea. A peace treaty has never been signed, only a cease fire. The North Koreans hate us because we have prevented them from invading the South for the past 60 years. I was stationed over there in the 80s and the NKs are constantly provoking confrontations. Yes, facts are facts, but yours are all wrong.

        December 13, 2012 at 12:24 am |
      • Mandrake

        speaking of "incorrect facts", nordicg3k...

        you said:

        "we actually are at war with North Korea. A peace treaty has never been signed, only a cease fire".

        the truth is:

        The UN Security Council authorized military action in 1950, which was concluded by the Armistice of 1953.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war_by_the_United_States

        See also:
        en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War

        Since you were stationed there, you probably should brush up on why... yeah?

        December 13, 2012 at 10:02 am |
      • scotz

        the problem is not north korea usin a nuke against the us..the problem is it fallin into the hands of terrorist that hav no clearly defined boarders...think of that!

        December 13, 2012 at 4:53 pm |
    • steve

      We are already broke.

      December 12, 2012 at 10:44 pm | Reply
  93. Rick from LA

    US tries to shoot down the satelite and misses, that would put a massive feather in the cap of NK and marginalized our counter detterence in the eyes of China and Russia.

    December 12, 2012 at 8:00 pm | Reply
    • Mister Jones

      Are you really arguing that we shouldn't have done it, in case we missed?!?!?! OK, then what happens when we try it for real, and it's never been tested? Try, miss ... and then try again. ... That is called progress. Just watchng it fly by, and say "woulda, coulda, or shoulda ..." is a little too head-in-the-sand for me. Shoot it down, and then reinforce the fact that we told them not to do it in thei first damn place. ... Feed your kids Kim Jong.

      December 13, 2012 at 3:55 pm | Reply
  94. Mandrake

    Imagine how great it would be if they'd put all that money into schools and jobs instead of warmongering...

    December 12, 2012 at 10:48 pm | Reply
  95. TexMan

    the fact that they have not tells or at least should tell you what???

    toidi

    December 12, 2012 at 10:51 pm | Reply

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