By Alicia Tarancon
CNN
The U.S. Army has launched the debut flight of its massive Long Endurance Multi-Intelligence Vehicle (LEMV), a souped-up blimp designed to fly continuously for 21 days and provide full surveillance of an area.
The LEMV was launched Tuesday from Joint Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst in New Jersey. The test flight lasted about 90 minutes.
The all-seeing airship is longer than football field and taller than a seven-story building, according to maker Northrop Grumman. Its shape separates the 21st-century "hybrid air vehicle," as Northrop Grumman calls it, from the blimps that have flown over sporting events for decades.
The LEMV is aerodynamic, with a shape closer to an airfoil than an elongated football like classic blimps. So while old-school blimps stay aloft because of the helium inside, the LEMV uses the helium and its shape to achieve lift.
Northrop Grumman has a $517 million contract to build three airships for the Army.
The first test flight included two pilots, but in the future, the Army hopes to have unmanned flights.
"I think the Army sees this as truly an exciting breakthrough," said Dave Nagy, vice president of business development for military aircraft systems at Northrop Grumman.
He says the Army will benefit from the LEMV because just a handful of these airships will be able to do what no other monitoring system can do. They can stay up in the air for long periods of time and can cover a significant area of ground. And the LEMV will not only be able to scan the ground for insurgents, but it may also have other uses, like hauling supplies and precious cargo to troops.
At a time when the military is looking for more cost-effective options for intelligence and surveillance gathering in places like Afghanistan, fueling the blimp will cost approximately $11,000 for a 21-day period of service.
Coincidentally, the debut flight took the LEMV right over the site of the fiery Hindenburg disaster on May 6, 1937. Nagy says the location, however, was deliberate.
"It's one of few locations that has hangar infrastructure for this size of vehicle," he said.
For now, Northrop Grumman will continue to test the LEMV from Lakehurst, New Jersey, where the company will continue to "expand the flight envelope," Nagy says. He said this technology will allow the military to be more flexible in the future.
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I don't know why people can't see the use. In the urban fighting of Iraq the big eye in the sky is no secret for a reason. It can look down on a whole city see the movement throughout. It would had been wonderfull in Ramadi and Fallaguh. I can see it open deserts and even mountainous regions. The key of course would be if one has air control.
As for the helium, the government still owns vast stores near Amarillo but is selling it off to private firms. The BLM operates a plant in Amarillo and there is more stored near Dumas Tx I believe. Congress order the selling of the reserves many years back. That near Dumas was owned by Phillips Petro at one time and I don't know if they still own that field.
Why on earth are we paying 517 million dollars for a "unmanned" flying football field??! Is this where my tax dollars are going to? Sure if might be more "cost-effective" to maintain as opposed to SAC back in the day but you'll be able to spot that thing 5 miles away! I've been to Afgan, and I'll tell you this much....I'm not going to get out of my cave if something that big and slow is flying around. We need to invest more in the drone's and stealth aircraft because let's be honest if we were to get into a WW3 scenario, those would be shot down in seconds and waste of our tax dollars. Its not going to be able to scan the ground, but when troops need supplies they need it ASAP, that will takes hours if not days to get to troops....I mean we scraped the comanche helicopter for this thing?! Unacceptable!
"Exciting breakthrough" isn't exactly the adjective I'd use for WWI era tech.
NASA Mars Curiosity is much better expenditure.
More wasted defense money unless its for Domestic spying. One surface to air rocket and its toast.
And to what, my dear fellow, does the "surface to air missile" lock on to? What is the pressure difference between the helium bladders and ambient? If it's not much, then the leak rate would be very slow. You really don't have any idea of what your speak, do you? Eye dee ten tea.
THAT THING IS AWESOME. I DON'T CARE WHAT ANY OF YOU SAY!!
Wouldn't sustained gun fire bring this thing down. It's not exactly hard to see this thing. Wouldn't the insurgents see this thing from miles away and just lay low until it is gone? I'm pretty sure a guy with an RPG on top of a mountain could bring this thing down.
I am pleased that this was finally built. Northrop project managers have been hinting about this project for at least 10 years. I am particularly excited to see if it will prove cost effective for commercial transport. These are too slow for practical passenger travel; however, they may have a future as a transcontinental or transoceanic cargo hauler. As a side note, the wikipedia article on Helium is quite interesting to review as it relates to this article.
Seriously? This thing would be so simple for an insurgent to take down. This was not built for Afghanistan. I don't know what it was built for but I'm not an idiot. Notice how it's called they refer to it as the All Seeing Eye. Google that term and see what you get.
Maybe you are an idiot if you think no one thought about that. It's designed to fly high enough that no standard AAA or missile can't reach it.
The NSA, CIA, and OIS have lots more up there at the edge of the atmosphere than you would ever know. The U.S. has the largest inventory of stealth vehicles than any nation on Earth. It started out as a way to help the civilian cell phone industry but all of the sudden it was militarized. So now there are legions of self-sustaining vehicles in the air all the time over countries such as N.K., Iran, Syria, Irak and others. They operate mainly by solar power and stay above ***** feet. They are mostly made of Kevlar and have microwave absorbing skin. Being in the stratosphere, they use very little energy to stay aloft. There inner cavities are filled with helium making them extremely buoyant. There is no radar reflection and even if someone fired a missile at one of them, it would not be able to make a lock. There is no radar return and it has no heat signature. It would take a hit by a projectile fired at close range. Since no fighter jet can get that high, they are there to stay.
Please pass the blunt when you finish taking another puff. If what you sat was true, then there would be NO photo of an RQ-70 drone CURRENTLY sitting in an Iranian hangar. And they CERTAINLY would've located bin-Laden YEARS ago.
We know you enjoy sci-fi books and video games, but just pass the joint on down the line when you're finished...
I dunno Sarge, the 80's rock star my have a point there. Lets face it, at a half-billion, its really not a very big chunk of the budget. My guess is this is a diversion because they're up to something else... a little slight-of-hand at play. Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean its not true.
I guess the enemy can use these things for target practice. Why don't they used WW11 propeller airplanes.
The C-130 is prop, it has 4 propellers....it's been in continuous production since 1957 and will be in the future...it's a transport and it is also a gunship that uses Gatling Guns and some models have 155mm Howitzer canon...I wouldn't want to be at the receiving end of that prop powered plane...
Damn you Arec Barwin!
♫♪♫ Am so ronery, ronery♫♪♫
Knocked it outta the park...
No one in their right mind thinks this is Really going to Afghanistan. In a few months it will either be off the coast of Iran, or more likely, North Korea, with a laser generator. It will be a lot cheaper than trying to keep a converted 747 flying in a racetrack pattern and the laser won't have to correct for the speed of the jet. This thing will just stay in one place and Watch what the Crazies are doing. It shouldn't need to come down for months, eventually, and maybe years. Solar panels will keep if flying and looking for extremely long periods. If I were a North Korean general, I'd start worrying about my job security with this thing around.
I just hope it can stay out of range of surface to air missiles, now that terrorists can get those.
If I were a N. Korean General, I'd be confident that the same offensive actions my country took against the USS Pueblo, the S. Korean destroyer and the S. Korean Island could be used against this "elephant" without fear of any retaliation. What? You think America is going to go to war with N. Korea when they launch MiG's to shoot one of these down? Are you too young to read history or just too stupid?
We're already at war with NK, we're just waiting for the UN to say 'screw the truce'.
Who are we going to fight with this, Cavemen? Any one else can shoot this thing down with one missile. What a waste of money...
In case you haven't noticed, we've been fighting cavemen in Afghanistan for over a decade now.
Haha!
Yep... thats the problem with cavemen.... caves.
As a servicemember with a smidge of know how, I can tell you all that this thing saves tons of money on fuel- typical surveilance jets fuel costs are thousands a DAY, this is 11k for almost a month? Not too bad- and not to mention the fact that this blimp will be flying WELL above the range of conventional firearms and unguided rockets, so Afghan use is totally in its future. We had tethered intel blimps at every single base, and only have I ever seen one of those get shot down. We secured the camera package upon landing, and the blimp itself was relatively cheap as far as the techs told me.
First, and MOST importantly, Thank You for your service and I hope you return to your family and home healthy and without injury or mishap.
Secondly, the US will be OUT of Afghanistan by the end of next year, beginning a draw-down starting in January. So, there's no time to deploy this "elephant". This thing is useless against potential enemies (like Syria, N. Korea and Iran) that have high-flying jet fighters equipped with air-to-air missiles. If it were deployed anywhere near Iran, they have ALREADY demonstrated their ability to take a remote-piloted vehicle down (without ANY meaningful retaliation). China certainly ain't gonna let one fly near their coast nor over those disputed islands in the E. China Sea that they've sent their military to protect. I'm sure your blimps were fine, but THIS is a big enough "elephant" that makes a big target.
There are already YouTube vidclips of ordinary people using balloons to send cameras and toys up into the stratosphere for bragging rights. What makes you think that a MILITARY trained jihadist mind won't go to the nearest Walmart toy section and buy a simple RC model rocket kit that can be armed with a small explosive? They ALMOST got away with plastic explosives in a pair of printers, in a guy's underwear and in a guy's shoes. Like any other inventor, I'm sure they are learning from their mistakes.
I'm not convinced that "lost" UAV wasn't a trojan horse with the object of inserting some specific malware into the Iranian military. Stranger things have happened. Flame or Duku anyone? The complete lack of angst over that "incident" is, to me, telling.
I think it's utterly laughable that people seem to think this is an over sized balloon that you could shoot down with a BB gun. 20,000 ft is a VERY long distance to hit something, and that's assuming it's directly over you. Even a tiny variation of angle would mean you would miss. And say you hit it, IT'S ONE BULLET. Even Anti-Air would have trouble hitting that, you'd need to manually direct a missile at it, and even then, it'd just punch through some compartments. Stop thinking in cartoon logic, America.
I think everyone is missing the real point here...In a time where we are downsizing our military due to budget constraints...we decide that building a WAR blimp in a time we are drawing down forces in all WAR zones is a better idea then simply trying to save those young men and women who gave their all from having to find new careers. I wonder what 172million x 3 would equal to in terms of one of those soldier, sailors, or marines salaries? Im sure 172million is worth so much more then those soldiers careers. Great job Capital Hill. Your really solving our GREEN effort issues with the non-renewable energy source and our budget. I guess I didnt realize the Bush family was that big that they were also in charge of congress. Only a decision like this could have came from there...."huh huh huh...Im george Bush and and think this is cool..gu huh huh huh....TEXAS"
I don't really know what you mean when you say this is essentially making the military larger. This will actually decrease the military's impact because now it takes less people to operate and survey an area for a long time. earlier it would have taken several drone crews both air and ground to do the same thing this blimp is doing. I also do not understand how this is bush's fault, oh wait I forgot every bad thing that happened during Obama's Presidency can be somehow linked to the Bush family because they are so stupid and evil. Clearly Obama is the savior and we can see this when we look at the great economy he has left us before Rommney takes office.
They could have put Newt Gingrich into service instead, for 1% of the cost. Another stupid, drunken waste of my tax money. M0r0ns.
I bet your $2000 dollars a year in taxes make a huge contribution to the budget.
All you people who are worried about these things being shot down have no imaginations. Just paint Snoopy on the side and write "MetLife" beside him. They won't suspect a thing.
They should call it the HindenTURD
WHY OH WHY are our tax dollars being used for a Blimp?? Talking about a slow moving target, this thing will get blasted out of the sky before anyone can count to 1. And we wonder why the U.S. Government is in such DEBT!
Hey Ahmed, pull out the peashooter and hit that slow moving balloon. Wow did the US go back 50 years and forgot what they were buying? Wow JF Kennedy just rolled over and broke wind! Damb!!!!
you people really think this is to spy on our enemies!? not you? ha
Depends on who's enemies.
Well according to our current leadership in government, all of us citizens are the enemy.
WELLLLLLLL! So much for stealth! LOOK here comes a FOOTBALL sized object, can you see it? IF you can't you must be blind. I thought they had CLOSED Ft. Dix? Forget about what type of weapon you fire at it. Just point in the general direction. So put some missles on it, some guns, whatever. It is still moving so slow you could probably walk a mile and still hit it. UNLESS the plan is to put it at 20K + feet. And how the heck did the Army get tagged with this one?
YEP. Just alot of money to be used for target practice!!
No right angles. carbon Fiber. invisible to radar. At 40,000 feet, painted grey, you can't distinguish it from the sky. The problem is THE SHADOW! Did any of the wunderkind at Northrup Grumman consider the SHADOW that a football sized thing will cast? So now the morons in DOD have told the Taliban about this thing so that they can look for the shadow. Loose Lips sunk this ship!
The plan is to put it at 20,000'+. It is designed to withstand "a reasonable amount of small arms fire".
Typical govt. project, it can barely get off the ground.
But the "evil" government was able to fly a rover all the way to Mars and explore it for years? Not a good way to generalize...
I think it's brilliant. We've learned that stronger, faster, smarter doesn't always win a war. We've sent the latest and greatest tech against the Taliban and they're just waiting us out. They know if the cost to climbs high enough we'll abandon the effort.
We've been spending billions on overkill.
The military saw that it was geared for the wrong kind of war and went looking for solutions. That's how you win wars.
You may have a point unless some country supplies the weapons,(secretly) , that are more than a match for them.
Exactly what is this huge $172 million (each) relatively slow moving target going to observe without being shot down?
The sensor suites on these things are amazing. They can take pictures and high-res video from insane distances. Don't underestimate lighter-than-air vessels. They may not be as lethal as other aircraft, but it can stay on station for weeks and just watch the target, providing valuable intel. It's way cheaper than running global hawks or predators all the time. I doesn't have to use an airfoil (completely) to create lift. They may be expensive up front, but the operating costs are where we will save money. Also, for those of you who think that it can be shot down by anyone with a rifle or RPG, they are designed to fly many many times the maximum range of those kinds of weapons. These aren't party balloons...
The new craft uses helium – which is reportedly becoming very scarce because it is a non-renewable resource. My biggest concern: even though it has a hybrid Kevlar cover that can withstand small-arms fire, how quickly might it deflate and descend if hit by ordinary anti-aircraft guns?
Helium is not used up by being used, it is a inert atmospheric gas. When the blimp is through with it it all goes back to the atmosphere. It is at a very low concentration in the atmosphere and has always been the same concentration.
Your wrong, helium escapes the atmosphere, once you release it goes into space.
THawk: I think you have something there. It probably goes to Mars to join our smog in causing their ice caps to melt.
Helium is produced as a by-product when producing natural gas. it is not produced from the atmosphere.
Hans: Helium is not produced, it is an element. If they do not collect it from the usual natural gas production it will be dumped into the atmosphere anyway. They are not creating more natural gas wells to get it. But they may get it from either natural gas or the atmosphere. Maybe concentrating it as a byproduct of our natural gas production is cheaper. And, yes I agree that we should use less fossil fuel. So, stop driving a car.
Oops! I see your point. However, the solution is to stop using the crucial high He field in Amarillo for anything else. Apparently some of this high helium natural gas is wasted as fuel without extracting the helium. However, you should still stop driving!
you ought to read up on where you get helium (other than buy it from the dealer). Yes, Helium is an naturaly occuring element. But let me quote Wikipedia
"On Earth it is thus relatively rare—0.00052% by volume in the atmosphere. Most terrestrial helium present today is created by the natural radioactive decay of heavy radioactive elements (thorium and uranium), as the alpha particles emitted by such decays consist of helium-4 nuclei. This radiogenic helium is trapped with natural gas in concentrations up to 7% by volume, from which it is extracted commercially by a low-temperature separation process called fractional distillation."
So if you want helium you have to "produce" it from natural gas. Talk to some vendors your will find out.
Have a nice day
A flying oxymoron! Green warfare. Good for the environment, bad for the bad guys.
Let's hope they learned their lesson and used helium this time.
The only reason the Hindenberg was full of hydrogen is that the U.S. controlled the world's supply of helium, and wouldn't sell Hitler any. It was a German airship. U.S. airships always used helium.
We always used Helium; we simply refused to sell it to NAZI Germany. The problem in the past with our airships was the craft were too big for the underpowered engines. Now the reverse is true...high powered engines to move such a large mass. We used blimps successfully during World War II....the only reason for their demise they thought aircraft could do a better job but they forgot to think a blimp can loiter days over or near a target when a plane is only hours....a blimp has the potential to lift greater weight then a fixed wing craft with relatively short or no runways needed
Awesome, a new blimp! 1935 is gonna be a great year, I can feel it.
I'll put everyone's mind at peace, if the three balloons were made in the USA the mechanical failure alone will bring them all down.
Dearest enemies.... Please don't notice the huge, slow, unarmed flying object above you. If you do happen to see a huge, slow, unarmed flying object above you, please don't shoot at it.... You would likely shoot it down and get all sorts of high tech secret stuff we don't want you to have. Thank you for your cooperation.
Exactly!
I guess none of you folks really get it or understand it. How high will your 30-06 shoot. 2738 feet if the weather conditions are right. How high will a 50 cal anti air craft gun shoot. 3600 foot if lucky. At 20,000 foot, just under 4 miles it would take an aircraft to fly up there or a missile. A No-Fly zone would be created long before that.
Capt. Zeb two U-2 spy planes were brought down during the cold war with the primitive weapons of the times, think of what can be destroyed with todays weapons. Drones are being brought down, I see these balloons to be a skeet shoot.
You guys are missing the point, this is for monitoring large crowds or civil unrest, not for covert surveillance or for use against a sophisticated enemy. This is for use in areas where the most long range weapon that the enemy would have is an RPG. And since people can obviously see it, it would likely have a deterrence effect that could prevent violence.
Ok, I set a blimp 20,000 feet up 8 miles away over Afghanistan. it hovers. Can you see it?
When they go to Iran. Iran won't be able to fly a kite first. And there IRG will be like gofers. These blimps as you call then will be waiting for their white eyes to look out of the hole. Catch my drift?
I wouldn't be surprised if this was used more fore domestic security. Like when the UN met in Chicago, or for Border/Coast surveillance. it's kind of creepy.
I wouldn't call a two stage missle that flies at mach 3 "primitive". The S-75 is still in service in a number of countries.
Can it spot illegals crossing the border?
NICE
Wow: an actual use for this thing other than making the contractor richer!
Zeb – understand about the no fly zone. Still, it seems vulnerable if no fly zone is porous or if enemy has some SA missiles.
Did we leave Iraq with Sams?
Did Lybia still have Sams
Does Afghanistan still have sams? Just lucky shots at low flying helicopters.
How about a German Flak 88?
Circa 1938-1945
Flak 88 1573 feet pot shots.
Better yet, Estes Rockets from your local Hobby Shop.
Does your show come on after Mr. Rodgers or before Capt Kangaroo?
Jimi John, go back to watching Bugs Bunny and Road Runner. Let the real world fight the wars. They kept your freedom haven't they? Go gnaw on your fudge cycle while ream men plan and determine what is right for the battle field and not you arm chair jockeys. God bless if we let you decide the weapons and armament of choice we would all be drinking vodka and eating those little fish eggs.
While they may try to take potshots at these ghost targets, they will never see the ABAC's coming in.
Wonder how it would do against a fighter plane or a well placed ground to air missile.
Tom<<< I see it as a perfect tool for the US to sacrifice so we can declare war on the country that shoots it down.
People need to think it through. It's not going to be getting into dog fights. It's a surveillance craft for arenas like Afghanistan, where we've already established air superiority. It's a relatively permanent eye in the sky with a 360 degree view. It'll pay for itself in fuel costs within a few years.
The enemy probably won't even be able to spot it, but they'll know it's there......watching........and an A10 will be on the way if it spots them.
I saw the movie, AEON FLUX, I liked it but the blimp went down.
Ha! I’m picturing a genetically engineered super-Taliban jumping off the side of a mountain and grabbing the tail.
Thank you Bob for the humor, one thumbs up, one like.
We have enjoyed air supremacy too quickly and for far too long. This concept is based on that. If we own the skies, it will be rather protected. If we don't, it won't (last long).
If it looks like a duck and flys like a duck........it must be a sitting duck!
'flies'
A10's are pretty slow and bulky, too, but they're the last thing a Taliban fundy wishes to see. It's a wish that comes true for a lot of them.
Really?? A blimp?? So the terrorists just need to shoot a bobby pin at it as it's deflate???
It can fly pretty high but is not fast at all. Good training for anti-aircraft artillery operators.
Hooray!! Anything that is used to shoot missiles and look into peoples privacy deserves all the funding it needs!
Oh good, we're ready to fight WW I again!
A poor idea that was cultivated in a time of "ask-for-it -and -you-will-get-it".
This enormous object fails to give BCT commanders flexibility, cannot cover the same area of responsibility as quickly as other assets, requires air-supremacy, fairly good weather/wind conditions, and requires a significant area to land and secure (every 21 days or less).
Bad idea.
Re fuelled in air.
21 day max flight duration.....likely less
Ike7 that was flight time with fuel. Air fueling could be indefinitely.
CPT Zeb,
theoretically possible....but highly unlikely. There aren't too many places that have 21 days + of continuosly good weather. The aircraft might be able to manuever away from incoming weather fronts (unlikely also) but that would likely take it off its target area and negate its constant-stare enduring mission.
DoD has better areas to spend money.
How long does it take to wind up the rubber band?
That blimp is awsome. Air ship technology is something under-used in our society.
I like the concept except that it couldn't be used anywhere that the enemy has anti-aircraft weapons or fighter aircraft. It would be a sitting target.
Sure couldn't use it over Iran.
Not in the first week or two anyway. After that, it would be pretty safe.
that is without a doubt the second most dumbess thing the army has ever done. whant to hear the first? I just got back from afghanistan, yea I'm in the army. we put these tracking devices on milvans that carry veryhting the army has; weapons, supplies, tents, night visions, bla bla bla. i noticed a few weeeks ago when i was playing with one of the tracking devices that u can unscrew the battery cover and take the battery out of te tracking device. I laughed so hard. I never ever seen anything so dumb stupid in my life.
It can only be Made in the USA, right. Name the MFG.
It is called Residual energy ping. The charge capacitors will keep the trackers pinging for weeks. and the batteries are 1.4 volts rather then the 1.3. so the enemies walk mans will fry on their ears. Not so dumb now is it.
LOL. So you think they'll remove the battery to use their walkman, instead of to "hide" the vehicle location after they highjack it? That said, I can only imagine what the Army is paying for that special little in-demand but can't get anywhere else battery.
Want to see something dumber? Read your own writing. Pitiful.
well, it is army-proof, isn't it. The average army troop can handle the maintenance on it... not pinging, replace battery. Could do it the other way... hard case, sealed, remove unit and send back to manufacturer for 8 week turnaround and tons of money to replace a $2 battery. So uncap and remove the battery, take a hammer to it, pop a AK47 round into it... all the same result. No ping.
517 million dollars for three balloons. Now I can't see any need to limit defense spending can you?
LMAO!!!! is it pullet proof. stupid! how much again. I will guarantee you that it will never see war.
Only $100 million for 200,000 cans of fix a flat.
Do you know the risk of shooting an AK 47 straight up towards a 20,000 foot high target?
There will be fall out. Raining lead.
This will be the first time I ever defend the military's bloiated budget, but some of the comments here are just dumb. The blimp obviously flies at a height and/or has sufficient stealth technology to avoid air defense system detection in the majority of countries it will operate (I doubt we're using it to spy on China). We do have a little experience in this field. Furthermore, $11,000 of fuel for a 21 day surveillance mission is pennies compared to the cost of operating many of the alternatives. Common sense folks.
I finally found a sain person in this forum
It may well be used as a system to deny ground space. Just it's presence is a deterrent to hostile ground movement. It appears to be a surveillance and observation platform... Not an offensive weapon!
This device is meant to support army ground units, by provifing survallance and intelligene information. By the time the ground troops enter any operation, the battle for the skies will be already won, this is not an air force vehicle. The Blimp will opperate at such extreme hieghts that no ground based forces will have ahny means of targeting or launching anattack upon it.
This is a brilliant move by the US army, and will compliment their forcces well. The intel this ever watching set of eyes will give to ground troops will save lives.
http://images.wikia.com/acecombat/images/2/27/Aigaion1.jpg
So the army's going to use this to scan its allies' and its own lands? After all, I really don't understand why hostile forces won't just unload everything they've got at this giant, slow, and defenseless target.
Please Jason, don't give these people ideas. They may just shoot the damn things down and we sure as dickens don't want that, do we? At least I don't nor do any of the Tea Partiers!
A trivial google search shows the operational ceiling of this thing to be over 22,000 ft.
You're not going to get your AK-47 rounds to go that high.
Kiler: form the look of your screen name, you only want the president shot. Tea party os old new full of old ideas which nobody gives a you now what about any longer
$11,000 / 21 days to fuel?? this could easily compete with train, bus, and maybe air route systems for passenger transport since you can significantly charge a lower price. wonder if anyone is brave or visionay enough to do so.
You mean other than Graf Zeppelin? This isn't exactly new technology...the Empire State Building was designed with a blimp dock at the spire.
I,m a physical scientist, Why can't you use a mixture of helium and hydrogen, you would get greater lift and it would be cheaper to operate. The helium would inhibit (not prevent) the posibility of fire. You handle rocket fuel and gasoline with iminmum accidents.
I would never trust a scientist with that many typos in his post. Sorry. Sounds like you are trying to get them to convert it to something questionable.
I hope you're working for the other side – you write like a third grader.
Thunderbird 2 was a much nicer dark green color.
Big Brother says.... "Coming soon to a city near YOU !"
Big Brother ain't no joke.
I helped get this thing in the air! If only you all knew the true story behind it.
Gee......why don't you tell us about it Jon? No fair with the tease.
LOTS OF STRANGE COMMENTS, SO THE FOLLOWING TEXT MAY HELP ANSWER THEM:
1/ The LEMV was designed and constructed by Hybrid Air Vehicles Ltd in England, but final assembly and inflation was in Lakehurst using an envelope from Dover plc.
2/ The Taliban don't have an air force and can’t even shoot down a stationary aerostat at 2,000 ft. The LEMV operates at 20,000 ft using German made high tech diesels that have a very poor IR signature and even if one was hit the low Helium pressure differential means it can tolerate a lot of holes. It would be good news if the bad boys did shoot at one rather than an airliner or transport aircraft, as it can detect the firing point very rapidly and is unmanned when used in a war zone.
3/ The LEMV uses Helium that can put a fire out, not Hydrogen. The US reserves of Helium are slowly running down, but Qatar, Siberia, Algeria, Canada, Poland, Australia, Iran, Indonesia and China all have big natural gas fields that are rich in Helium. Cheap Helium will run out when all the fossil fuels are gone, but the new envelope materials leak very, very little so it is only needed for initial inflation. Ultimately it will be extracted from under ground non gas field related porous rocks that contain traces of it or old oil wells, so it won't run out.
4/ Each LEMV cost less than 100 million, the 500 plus contract figure was for three and includes expensive surveillance gear, remote control and ground stations. Much cheaper than a big airliner, they use a fraction of the fuel and don't need an airport. They only need a hangar for final construction or annual inspection and they do not have a breakable frame to complicate maintanance, so they can be maintained outside. Any LTAV with a complex frame will always be a hangar queen and cost at least twice as much to build and operate.
5/ The next type of hybrid air vehicle to be developed will be the bigger more powerful (Cargo and vertical heavy lift) HAV 366, to be built in Cardington most likely (Google the company name for updated web site). Only HAV Ltd have a design, stress analysis and engineering team with enough skill to do that job (Almost 30 years of LTAV design, construction and operation). If an overseas company tries to copy one it will be a Concordski type fiasco, not even Lockheed Martin could design and build a hybrid that worked.
6/ HAV's are not designed, built or operated like a Zeppelin or blimp, so to compare them is nonsense, as a new age has dawned and the HAV's were designed to overcome all the problems associated with previous aircraft types, not copy them, best of all they don't need an airport.
7/ The genius behind the hybrid air vehicle concept was Roger Munk who spent most of working life aquiring the skills and building a design team capable of producing such amazing aircraft as the LEMV. He taught the other designers well and they are the ultimate company asset. Roger was in some ways as great a designer as Reginald Mitchell (Spitfire design), but although the press gave some credit to Mitchell for his good work, the press have overlooked the importance of Roger Munks contribution to aviation in a similar way as they have ignored the real company behind the LEMV.
8/ The LEMV did not cause the famous London Olympics UFO incident!!
Thank you for the information, and making an intelligent, coherent, non-belligerent post. You pass the Turing test.
Thanks and one point I forgot that nearly always causes concern is that the LEMV is not going to used to spy on the good people of the USA. It will be used overseas or for border patrol tasks. If the US government wanted to spy on you, it can use the Internet or the mobile phone system to track your every move and comment.
Cool, if it saves lives, can help target just the hostiles and speed up the end of a fight – I'm all for it. Now if I could only hitch a ride...
I agree with Judas Priest...well written and didn't accuse the Army of being a bunch of schmucks for developing this thing. (Are you new to posting on here??)
Seriously, you hit the nail on the head. Maybe some of the trolling dolts on here can take a lesson from your post and.......oh wait, that's not possible. They can read fairly well but their comprehension is nil.
Informative but reeks of someone with a personal/financial stake in the product.
None at all, although my company (Google Hybrid Pilot Services) did provide some advice last year to various companies involved, BUT the Brits like to see one of our own aviation companies succeed where others have failed. We did that with the first hovercraft, the first vertical take off Harrier jump jet, the first supersonic airliner and now the worlds first real hybrid air vehicle.
I wouldn't mind having a financial interest in that project.
Great information! Too bad CNN couldn't do better reporting of the facts, and less sensationalism. The thing makes total sense to me now. I like the alternative energy part. I wonder if they have any solar powered technology on board.
I would like to see an ultra low fuel consumption version of the LEMV designed and manufactured, the flat body does allow for more solar panels and with a pair of diesel generators at the back of the gondola it would be one green way to fly!! (Hybrid Pilot Services Ltd)
"6/ HAV's are not designed, built or operated like a Zeppelin or blimp, so to compare them is nonsense, as a new age has dawned and the HAV's were designed to overcome all the problems associated with previous aircraft types, not copy them"
So, we have your word that they won't be damaged by a cross-wind in ground handling accidents? How does that work?
Gee I hope they can repel RPGs....
Yeah, looks kind of hard to miss.....
Good thing RPGs can't travel 20,000 feet!
RPGs don't travel 20,000 feet, especially straight up...
Holy flock!
Looking forward to seeing these above my city every morning noon and night real soon.
A Blimp??? Really???
Let's hope the Army isn't getting into the the domestic surveillance busines now.
Can we park a few over our southern border?
I love all of these idiotic comments; you trolls are so short sighted. This is an air fortress that will be able to dominate an area at a cost of $11k worth of fuel for 3 weeks at a time and drop supplies right where our soldiers need them the most. Most jets burn through $11k in fuel on takeoff (I jest of course, yet Im not far off). Give the army a smidgeon of credit, this isn’t something that will be used for target practice, it will be move into an area that has been cleared of anti aircraft weapons and it will be supported by our own fighter jets.
The huge benefit this brings to the table is surveillance like never before; it will be able to track each and every individual (potentially 10s of thousands of individuals) within its radius, the exact bit of tech we need to squash guerilla warfare that our military is vulnerable to when enemy combatants blend in with the civilian population. The problem with drones is that they are not there every moment and they lose track of individuals, that problem will be eliminated by this crucial piece of very impressive technology.
Exactly right, this thing is flocking scary!
I doubt it will take much to bring one of these down, waste of money imo.
Yeah I bet your right, its always great to make assumption about stuff that you absoultly nothing about
Ok, well I am former military and I am telling you...you're the idiot that thinks all these trolls are dumb. This thing is a huge target and anything with ISR capabilities should also be highly agile because as several events in the past decade have proven our encrypted technology, has been decoded when our aircraft crash. Further, what do you mean when all the anti-aircraft weapons have been cleared? Really? Does that ever truly happen? Look, I have supported the Army for a number of years and I can flat out tell you...this is a victory for lobbyist because they sold you a lemon. This program was continued because some congressman in NJ didn't want to lose any more jobs after the BRAC. Waste of tax dollars...
If you think these blimps are going to be used in forgien lands and not to watch Americans I got a bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you how dumb are Americans these days to think otherwise sheep Bahh Bahh Bahh signed US combat veteran and American against stuipidity and ignorance foundation.
i don't think these were designed to be used on foreign soil....
Blimps are a major breakthrough for the Army?
IT'S NOT A BLIMP, BUT A HYBRID AIR VEHICLE!!
Please read the article before making asinine comments.
I still say the best way to save money is to go back to WWII style fighter planes with modest updates that a modest (MODEST..repeat MODEST) amount of technology like GPS and just go back to carpet bombing with fighter back-up. Most sand dwellers would still be overwhelmed with that technology. Sure..we could use the good stuff to achieve air superiority, then go to the standard stuff and keep the good in reserve for later. The constant updating and spending billions on a single plane is just stupid.
Most "sand dwellers" can buy anti-air rockets from Iran.
I still say the best way to save money in the defense department is to stop allowing major defense contractors to lobby for ignorant programs like this one. This blimp is nothing more than a noisy, slow floating, target of opportunity for any enemy nation seeking information about what targets the US is spying on....As taxpayers we should demand a return on investment for this one...they need to slap a recruiting poster on the side of it and fly over heavily populated US beaches...or donate it to the Army/Navy football game. Northrop Grumman executives...how do you sleep at night after taking a half billion dollars to build three of these? How many prosthetic arms and legs could you have purchased at the cost of this program? HASC/SASC, where the hell were you when this money was being spent? Might want to release the S&I team on this one cause really I would love to know how this supports future missions outside of Iraq/Afghanistan...
The LEMV is designed to save money because they are cheaper to buy and operate than a large fixed wing AWACS aircraft and far less than a spy satellite.
OK airship blimp, since you don't want to open yourself up for comments and obviously work for the program...its also inexpensive for me to buy COTS radio controlled aircraft and fly them off the side of a mountain into an intelligence rich environment. Most times we choose not to do that because it is ineffective. You are making a case for purchasing these because they are cheap, hoping that the public is uneducated enough to realize that this thing serves very little purpose. It may cost more to put a satellite in place but for now, their use limits the number of countries that can shoot them down to China and a couple others. These things may be cheap but whether over US soil or overseas, you might as well paint a bulls eye on the side. They are slow and have the agility of a garden snail. That pretty much makes them useless as flying communication centers, intelligence centers, oh and as if we didn't learn this lesson in the civil war....when you are trying to bring supplies to troops on vehicles with limited agility, such as trains, the supply chain is easily disrupted. FACE IT, YOU SOLD THE ARMY A LEMON. On the taxpayers dollar. Go to Congress next and lobby for a force field, you will need it next to protect this thing from enemy threats.
A few commercial passenger jets have a ceiling somewhere around 40K feet. I'm guessing there are plenty of military planes that can go higher – this bad boy blimp better be sitting in low orbit or it'll be shot from the sky with ease.
If the enemy still has Aircraft with which to shoot this thing down by the time it gets to the theater, either the Air Force isn't doing its job, or we've already lost the war.
I believe the reason "blimps" went out of fashion was because they are enormous targets, move slowly, manuever slowly, and can only carry a few people/troops or supplies. How can this be good for a war zone that needs intelligence ? This is why we have SS jets that are "inivisible" to radar, go faster and higher than the human eye can see them and satellites and drones. Why is this even being considered? This a no-brainer waste of time and money.
Old style blimps flew at a few thousand feet... this flies at 20,000 feet, well out of range of most non-emplaced, non-vehicle-mounted anti-aircraft systems. Most old style blimps also had very little cargo space... this has enough for seven tons of cargo, which is about 33% less than the Hindenburg's cargo capacity (and the Hindenburg was about 3 times the size of this airship).
Pork with wing that can fly!
Fried rice with mine and hold the MSG.
We already have blimps in Afghanistan now and they suck there is no reason to spend more money on useless crap
Put it high enough and give it a transparent plastic skin and it would completely disappear against the clouds.
Combined with cloaking materials/means currently being researched , how do we know they couldn't already make this thing invisible on demand?
What a stupid waste of money. uh... HELLO!!?? 1 RPG and BOOM 100mill gone..... Uncle Sam: "thanks sucker tax payers".
RPG range is about 300 meters or roughly 900 ft. Not even close.
They gotta land sometime ! Perfect targets.
They probably won't even have to waste their RPGs on this. They just have to shoot at it with some .50 cals or 20 mms.
THey fly to high over here for RPGs to get that shouldnt be a problem for it
Do you really think the army hasn't thought over EVERYONE on this board's little complaints? Come on... this thing will be flying in low orbit. It shows a lack of knowledge to be like "oh and RPG will take this thing down."
It's the shoulder launched stingers, like we gave to the Mujaheddin back in the 80's, that will make this thing useless. Good project for some congressman's district, though!
The Taliban don't have any functional Stingers and the LEMV is just out of range (18,500 vs 20,000 ft), BUT they can't get an IR lock on because the LEMV uses cool running German diesel engines.
In the past the idea was to release the gas (helium) as it ascends to balance buoyancy and gas expansion. Now if you had another envelope , like weather balloons , this thing could get waaaay the heck up there. Several were recorded over 100,000 ft.
Looks like a gain target, that says shoot me!
Imagine if retailer Target started advertising on it. That would serve two purposes for the vehicle. It's already a target...advertised with Target on it at least we may recoup some of the money lost when it gets blown out of the sky the very first day by some kid with a sling shot.
the elevation this blimp cn climb at would be out of missle and man operated range. i highly doubt it is a target
Can we make a modification so it will look like Snoopy or Underdog?
And we wonder why we are a broke country. Blimps, LOL.
I think I see where the government could have saved $517 million.
Yup, I'm pro military, but we spend way too much on Defense. If you can sell an enemy to the Pentagon, you'd be rich beyond your wildest dreams.
Put a couple dorsal fins on my hot water heater, and you could have the same thing for a few hundred bucks.
There is no way this is going to a war zone. It will stay right here, hovering over US cities. As long as it isnt too windy.
It's operational ceiling is 22,000 feet, which is above the range of a majority of Soviet and US man portable surface to air missiles, which is 3 miles. This is perfect for most conflicts the US would find itself involved in, short of an all out war against China or North Korea. More than likely, the first three are just for evaluation purposes anyway and then more will be built if it seems justifiable.
Wrong, wrong wrong
Matts RIGHT, RIGHT, RIGHT!
That's just Thunderbird 2.
i'm pretty sure robots are going to come out of that thing
No ...that would be the US NAVY version of the flying Aircraft Carrier that launches, and recover,s the drone fighter planes...Please keep the different branches of our military straight...and do not confuse the submersible B2 Bomber with the Navy...that is the new Air Force...
Kinda pricey for a slow flying target.
I'm sure that blimp will be greeted with open arms as a liberator.
So which aircaft that can do a similar job would cost less than 100 million (The 517 was for 3 plus all the gear)??
The Taliban don't have an air force and it flies too high to hit from the ground.
All that is needed is one small, cheap, even propeller driven aircraft... doing a kamikaze at 20,000 ft (no armament necessary)... and pfft.
If this thing had any sort of good radar it could function as a long-duration AWACS. Any aircraft flying towards it could be spotted by either the blimp itself or any of our other radar watching the skies. I'm sure that anything trying to take it down would be intercepted and shot down.
COST EFFECTIVE OPTION... Hmmm... let's do the math. Let's say this thing 10x more fuel efficient than the next alternative option. So for a period of 21 days, it saves $99,000. Let's say it's used every single day – that would be $1.72M dollars of savings in fuel per year. There are three of them, so let's say all three are used continuously around the clock for the year – that's $5.16M in fuel savings. We paid $517M for three of them so we'll have to use all three of them for the next 100 years to realize in full the savings. DOES THAT MAKE GOOD DOLLAR SENSE TO YOU?!
And we have 350 plus M1 tanks that have to be completely rebuilt after being used in Afghanistan and Iraq...That is not cheap either...then there are the helicopters and trucks...
The US Army and Marines already have smaller versions of these all over Afghan, Mostly over patrol bases where there is fewer troops. This is old news.
"...more fuel efficient than the next alternative option." That option is fixed wing aircraft so I'm sure the math is just fine I Did the Math...read the not-so-fine print before commenting next time.
It's a spy blimp.
We have... how many spy satellites already? Floating around in the Earth's orbit, I imagine they're pretty fuel effective. =P
@ Dave in Arizona – Except that satellites are way more expensive and don't have to hover capacity that something in the atmosphere would have. If you want hover capability from a sattelite then it needs to be 22k miles above the surface of the earth.
Agreed, satellites orbit the Earth and do not hang around the the same patch of sky–unless you are counting a geo-synchronous one, but those are not necessarily practical. These fly high, are likely stealthy as hell and would be protected. It makes sense to have a cheaper eye in the sky. People are getting all hung up that this is "old-technology" but in reality it's a modern refinement of an old and successful technology. We have learned a lot of lessons since the days of the great airships. They only fell out of favor due to the bad publicity of the older, and dangerous Hydrogen-filled airship disasters. We have better motors and a better understanding of aerodynamics. We are smart enough to use Helium instead of Hydrogen. I would not be too surprised if the radar signature is pretty low as well. In the long run this could save a lot of money and even lives of our servicemen and women.
So the cost of producing the next alternative has no relevance here? Seems like phony math to me.
While you're right that the cost savings in terms of fuel consumption does not add up, you aren't taking into account that this aircraft provides continuous surveillance of a battlefield which was not available before. This new capability is likely to save many lives on the battlefield. Also, it can be used to monitor potential terrorist threats and prevent attacks before they happen.
3 Boeing AWACS would cost about 5 times more to buy and operate and one spy satellite is about 10 times as expensive!! One big cost saving.
Thank you for doing what most commentary never bothers to do when offering suggestions: the ACTUAL math.
If more people (particularly politicians) would learn to go the math first, we might spend our tax dollars more wisely. For instance: how much is an RPG or ManPad vs the cost of this giant, slow moving "elephant"? Going to use it to resupply troops? At football field length, where and how? This thing can be seen for miles and will certainly attract enemy ground forces to come within shooting range. We won't even bother to examine it's effectiveness with any adversary (like Syria or Iran) that has attack helicopter gunships.
I see these things being used to watch citizens of the United States. They are too easy to shoot down, so why would you deploy this in hostile airspace. Be prepared people. ENDGAME is coming.
We are currently watching you flycopter13x. Stop picking your nose.
They already have these up all over Afghan man, just a little smaller. Just came back from there in Feb.
you don't need to be worried about these flying and watching you in the US. if you're really paranoid about someone watching you, worry about the police UAVs that will be getting permission from the FAA to fly in US airspace very soon...:)
I question the survivability of such a large "Cargo" or troop vehicle. It would not take much to bring it down, it is hard to store (hide) and of little use in a high wind. So, I have to question the logic behind the Army's planning.
You must be an amazing military strategist.
You mean you're assuming that the military uses logic?
Trust me, when your life is on the line, or your friend's, you use logic. Get off the couch sometime.
Waste of money !
All I see is an enemy taking it down with a hand gun.
LMAO Terry, I was thinking the same thing. An AK-47 (the weapon of choice of our terrorist friends) would be able to reach that blimp easily.
Not exactly, they go really high up....bullets dont go too far when you shoot straight up......hopefully when the bullets come back down they take aladdin with them.
It operates above 20k feet, numbnuts.
ak74 range is about 2 km this thing fly 22000 feet (approximation 7km). Ak47 is no danger to it.
AK-47 won't reach but a GTAM will get it.
@ Common-if by GTAM you mean SAM (surface to air missile), they won't reach it either unless they are vehicle mounted, which the air force usually quickly destroys. Man portable SAMs have a range of 3 miles or less.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-to-air_missile
SHHHH! We're doing surveillance.
Could this be the source of the so called "Phoenix Lights"?
Awesome! Next they can bring back the catapult, trebuchet and ballista!
How can you drop bombs out of this thing if it's unmanned?
Seriously? Never heard of a drone? It's ok we've only been using them for the better part of a decade.
Is this a serious question? What is the difference between a flyboy pressing a button in a plane or one pressing a button from a remote control console?
Not for shooting, just looking, but the Predator and Reaper, both technically "unmanned" have been doing this for about 9 years...where have you been?
So much for that 'Stealth' stuff.
Oh? You want stealth? How 'bout they paint it sky blue with fluffy white clouds! Of course, the Army would end up only flying it on overcast days! But that might be nice: a little football-shaped piece of blue sky floating around in the overcast Can you imagine the sound of the "pop" when that thing gets hits by anti aircraft fire. That in itself might be worth the $500-millioin–especially if they televise it. They could sell advertising time and recoup their costs! See, I'm always thinking!
The US Army is slowly getting away!!!
Good grief, another big fat killing machine paid for by the American taxpayer. Now we get to kill more people than we could before! Hip, hip, hurray or should I scream SIEG HIEL?!?!?!
Nice. Nazi comments from none other than George Patton. I love running into geniuses like you on the Internet.
What's the over/under on the timeframe for one of these to be patroling an American city????
Doesn't matter. Any photo evidence it generates would never be used in a court of law. It would publicly reveal the capabilities of the onboard equipment and photo survellance capabilities are a closely guarded secret.
You are only half-correct.
Any photo taken would not be presented to the accused/defense/judge/public for the very reasons you specified.
However, it will be admissible as evidence under the "take our work for it – we are the army" clause.
AMERICA'S NEW SUPER WEAPON A HALF A BILLION DOLLAR UNARMED BALLOON
WITH A TOP SPEED OF 50 MPH WITH A GOOD TAIL WIND
that thundering sound you heard was a bunch of UFO nuts collectively slapping their foreheads
"Look up in the sky! It's a bird! It's a plane! No, it's more wasteful spending!"
Well with America being so deep in the hole we have to come up with cheaper ideas! Now we just have to replace the billion dollars super fighter with billion dollar super fighter balloons. Lets go ask Canada for money, little retarded brothers always have a stash somewhere.
It's impervious to all but the sharpest pointy objects.
That's well put 8>)
Can all you retards shut the hell up?! its obvious the ARMY wouldn't tell any of you people the true reasoning for it and unless you're carrying a rifle and throwing yourself in a battlefield then theres no real reason for you guys to worry. Thats the problem with this country now, too much civilian oversight. So sit behind your screen and type up what you say but regardless of what you do say, its not gonna change its existence, purpose or future operations.
AMERICA'S NEW SUPER WEAPON
AN UNARMED BALLOON WITH A TOP SPEED OF
50 MPH WITH A GOOD TAIL WIND
Right the problem with our country is the people have too much say! Lets all just shut and let Big Brother do everything for us.
What do you mean "too much civilian oversight ? " That's how are system is set up, to have the "civilians" in charge of the military in this country. Otherwise, we would have a military dictatorship.
Besides, its the civilians that complain about having to pay for $400 toilet seats. I dont see the military correcting themselves with waste, so its the civilians that must step in.
And the civilians in Congress that buy submarines and aircraft the military doesn't want or need...guess there's enough blame for all of us...:)
Seriously? Do you know what a democracy is "retard"?
Now i know there are decent people in the military but people like you give them a bad name. War mongers and nazis like you are what's wrong with this country. Lets just put you and the military in charge of this country and see how things go. It is better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees.
I am former military and current defense contractor. I can tell the problem with this country is exactly the opposite. No oversight, anywhere. The people who claim to be overseeing government contracts are either military officers trained to handle guns, not pens...or civilian GS employees that can't wait to get to that retirement check. I am pro-military but this program was a serious waste of tax dollars and overlaps so badly with joint service efforts that it makes me sick!
Pork.
What I find interesting, is reading the comments of people who think the taxpayer pays for all of this. Do your research. Our defense spending is exactly what we take in corporate tax payments, so who pays for this, the corporations, who profits from war, corporations and defense contracts. Wake up, education is payed for through property tax, roads are payed for through gasoline tax, state tax and sales tax take care of state and county needs, etc. So would you like to know what your Federal Income tax really contributes to, nothing more than an interest payment on the national debt, now think about this as if it were your personal credit card (because our currency is exactly that P + I, principal + interest), if you only make interest payments will you ever get out of debt?? Answer: No. Govt defense spending does not concern me, the real problem concerns me.
Seriously? 16 trillion dollars in debt mostly because of our military and you're not worried about it because you are focused on the "real" problem. You then never stated what that real problem is.
So defense spending (30ish % of our annual spending, even higher % of tax receipts, and nearly doubled in $ over the past 10 years) has had no adverse impact on our financial condition? Just because something on one side of the income statement equals something on the other side doesn't mean that one directly pays for the other, especially when one side is bigger than the other. Our problems will not be fixed from only one side of the income statement, let alone only 3/4 of that side.
The bottom line is we just can't afford to fund these concept-based weapons systems like it's still the cold war, or World War II.
In every war that's ever been fought, the military has only been able to build truly effective weapons through the forge of battle. The next war is never like the last war, and building weapons based on the last war is always a colossal waste.
If I have it right, lighter than air ships have a ceiling around 4000 feet above sea level. This limits their operational coverage, and makes them vulnerable to anti-aircraft weapons.
not necessarily. According to the US Army's website, the design requirements includes the capability of flying at 20,000 ft above mean sea level, along with a 2,000 mile radius of action. it's only real threat is the weather.
Uh, the other threat would be enemy aircraft... and very large birds
Nope, WWI-era zeppelins operated above 20,000 ft and one could imagine that a more recent airfoil shaped design could go higher than that.