More problems for F-22 beyond mysterious oxygen loss issue
July 16th, 2012
12:00 AM ET

More problems for F-22 beyond mysterious oxygen loss issue

By Mike Mount

Two recent in-flight emergencies involving troubled oxygen systems in the F-22 "Raptor" are unrelated to other, more worrisome breathing problems pilots have experienced for more than a year when flying the plane, according to U.S. Air Force officials.

The Air Force has been investigating why a number of F-22 pilots have experienced a mysterious loss of oxygen while in the air, causing dizziness and confusion known as hypoxia, since spring 2011.

But two recent incidents related to the F-22 oxygen system are considered regular mechanical issues not connected to the oxygen deprivation investigation, according to Air Force Lt. Col. Tadd Sholtis, a spokesman for the Air Force's Air Combat Command.

"The recent incidents that have resulted in new expressions of concern are of a different kind than the ones we have been focused on in recent months," Sholtis told CNN's Security Clearance.

Air Force officials have labeled the number of unexplained F-22 breathing incidents as "cause unknown," while labeling the two recent incidents as "cause known.

The latest problems prompted two members of Congress, Sen. Mark Warner, D-Virginia, and Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Illinois, to send a letter to the Air Force secretary last week demanding answers.

In an e-mail response to Security Clearance, Sholtis sent information on what Air Force initial investigations found in the two recent incidents. Sholtis said the mechanical issues were "not specific to the F-22 aircraft."

One of the incidents, an oxygen system malfunction on July 6, is still under investigation by the Air Force and the plane remains grounded, according to the Air Force information provided by Sholtis, but the incident is still listed as a "cause known" problem.

While returning from a training mission, the pilot from the 154th Wing of the Hawaii Air National Guard received a warning indication that the Onboard Oxygen Generating System (OBOGS) was malfunctioning and declared an in-flight emergency.

"The pilot experienced a hypoxic symptom in conjunction with the aircraft warning and activated the emergency oxygen system," according to the information given to Security Clearance. The pilot recovered and landed the plane without a problem after receiving emergency oxygen.

"The pilot has no lingering physiological effects and has returned to flight status. More details will be available when the investigation is complete, but we're confident the annunciation of the OBOGS warning during the flight points to the cause, which was a malfunction within the OBOGS," according to the information.

On June 26, an F-22 pilot from the 1st Fighter Wing was conducting routine flight operations out of Langley Air Force Base in Virginia. The pilot reported a "temporary restriction," in breathing and "was not receiving the normal flow of oxygen through the hose," to his face mask as he was on final approach. The pilot was able to land the plane safely, according to the information.

After parking the plane, the pilot remained in the cockpit and was instructed to engage the emergency oxygen system, the information said. The emergency system shoots pure oxygen into a pilot's mask as part of a safety protocol.

While the pilot was breathing the emergency air, he reported tightness in his chest for a short time, according to the information from Sholtis. It was later diagnosed as atelectasis related to breathing a high concentration of oxygen, the statement said. Altelectasis is defined as a partial or total lung collapse.

The unnamed pilot has since returned to flying and has flown five times since the June 26 incident with no aftereffects, according to the statement.

An investigation and analysis into what happened to the aircraft's oxygen system revealed a stuck valve. Audio recordings during the flight also registered the sounds of a stuck valve, the according to the information.

"To correct the mechanical issue, maintenance personnel removed and replaced the Breathing Regulator Anti-G (BRAG) valve, pilot breathing hoses, the Emergency Oxygen System (EOS) Regulator and the EOS shutoff valve," according to the statement.

Sholtis said the plane has since returned to service and the incident is listed as "cause known."

Warner and Kinzinger also asked about a May 31 incident where a F-22 crash landed when its wheels failed to extend upon landing. That incident was attributed to "a pilot new to the aircraft that involved no physiological symptoms and had no relation to the life support system," Sholtis said.

The Air Force has not released more information on the May incident, including details of how much damage was done to the service's most expensive aircraft.

Since the onset of the F-22 problems, the Air Force has taken a number of steps to mitigate more in-flight mystery incidents. Those steps include barring pilots from wearing an inflatable vest that assists their breathing during intense G-forces, as well as reducing the altitude the aircraft can fly.

Defense Secretary Leon Panetta also ordered the air service to keep F-22 flights to a limited area so pilots could safely return to a base if they experienced a problem with their oxygen systems.

Warner and Kinzinger also asked the Air Force for updated statistics on the number of hypoxia incidents on top of numbers already given to them by the Air Force.

Last month, the two members of Congress released numbers by the Air Force that showed pilots flying the F-22 Raptor reported illness from oxygen deprivation incidents 10 times as often as pilots of other fighter jets.

The data showed Raptor pilots have reported 26.43 hypoxia and hypoxia-like incidents per 100,000 flight hours. While that represents a mere fraction of total flight hours, it is far higher than incidents from other Air Force aircraft, including the A-10, the F-15E and the F-16.

But the two demanded new information when they saw higher numbers reported in media that did not reflect the earlier numbers they were given.

Sholtis said the Air Force was validating the numbers in response to the lawmakers' request, but said it does not look like there is an increase in the statistics already given.

Post by:
Filed under: Air Force • Congress • F-22 • Military
soundoff (172 Responses)
  1. bf109

    What a POS!

    September 25, 2014 at 8:36 am | Reply
  2. Robyn

    September 23, 2014 (AP) In other news the US Air Force today announced the retirement of the F-22.
    After a long and storied career spanning nearly eight hours, the F-22 or "Flying Do-Do" as it was known to pilots.
    Was responsibly for a record setting zero kills. Said Air Force General Dougly Do-Right, "We all gonna miss that flyin' piece of BLEEP!

    September 24, 2014 at 6:43 am | Reply
  3. David Bozic

    I live in Palmdale where the plane is made. Lockheed could fix this problem but refuses to! I have a machine shop and am a great problem solver and project manager and would be more than happy to fix the problem for them! Kelly Johnson is turning over in his grave! David 🚀

    September 23, 2014 at 9:30 pm | Reply
    • Robert

      nice pitch but if you think the military is going to hand a 412 million aircraft to a civilian think again.People are never open to new technology but complain when other countries surpass us. Boeing and Lockheed have attempted to make the next leap in aviation with building these modern day fighters. Russian and China are also facing problems with there stealth fighter program. US is not the only one. We lead the pact if we don't continue to push we will loose our edge in air superiority which is key to our military might

      September 24, 2014 at 11:34 am | Reply
    • tom

      sure, they could fix it easily.
      BUT...

      they would rather have the government (or lack thereof) spent millions (if not billions) of dollars to encourage Lockheed to get off their butts.

      September 24, 2014 at 5:32 pm | Reply
    • rich c

      Robert l get your point but its sad to think one person great at his job may not be able to fix it better than a big wig company is so wrong .It has been proven time again through out history that more than one occasion has man figured out a simple solution to big problem !! ie;submachine gun vs tommy gun WW2 ,the submachine gun (grease gun) was cheaper easier to produce machine gun for the military was designed by a metal toy maker ,if it worked then why not now??

      September 25, 2014 at 12:02 am | Reply
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  5. Canada

    F22 is a stupid aircraft, just as stupid as Americans

    November 16, 2012 at 7:40 pm | Reply
    • AMERICA

      You stupid Canuck! You wish you lived here!

      October 2, 2013 at 11:09 am | Reply
    • LOL

      An inanimate object, without true A.I. is as stupid as a person? Apples to oranges; looks like you fail at logic. Why do you feel you have the right to deem something stupid again?

      September 23, 2014 at 10:39 pm | Reply
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    September 12, 2012 at 3:34 am | Reply
  10. EvilWorm

    Ox pressure sensors are defective in extreme G turn. Air Force knows, this but is looking for a CHEAP fix.

    July 21, 2012 at 10:19 pm | Reply
    • rich c

      so why dont they use the ones used by F16 F18 already that are proven to work ?? as well as the rest of their breathing systems etc ??

      September 25, 2014 at 12:08 am | Reply
  11. Reticuli

    And of course, as these stories rarely point out, the Alaska crash that started this media meme had nothing to do with a malfunctioning OBOGs.

    July 21, 2012 at 4:08 pm | Reply
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    • Reticuli

      Spam?

      July 21, 2012 at 4:09 pm | Reply
  13. BobB

    It's free, it's free
    Just swipe your EBT!!!

    July 17, 2012 at 8:53 am | Reply
  14. ngc1300

    Well, that's just ducky. The world's best air superiority fighter anywhere up to a half-hour away from an emergency landing field. Money well spent.

    July 17, 2012 at 7:06 am | Reply
  15. Killer O'Bama

    Just what we need! Let's fix those friggin' F-22 "raptors" and get on with the bloodshed! These are still too many Towelheads around!!!

    July 16, 2012 at 7:19 pm | Reply
    • Amicus Curiae

      Well said, Killer. Kick the tires and light the fires.

      July 17, 2012 at 4:54 pm | Reply
  16. xfiler93

    seems a few more bugs need to be worked out.

    July 16, 2012 at 6:46 pm | Reply
  17. enzo24

    Congress should investigate Lockheed Martin. F-22: over budget and oxygen system doesn't work. F-35: way over budget and tailhook doesn't work. This company should not be awarded any more government contracts until it gets its **** together.

    July 16, 2012 at 6:27 pm | Reply
    • TallinOK

      Agree completely.

      July 16, 2012 at 8:59 pm | Reply
    • Amicus Curiae

      Yes, it is frustrating to have all these problems, but a Congressional investigation? What good has that ever done? There's no business like show business. Don't get between a Congressman and a camera (or microphone). You will get run over.

      July 17, 2012 at 4:59 pm | Reply
    • Reticuli

      Your understanding of complex technology is astounding.

      July 21, 2012 at 4:10 pm | Reply
  18. Goodguy1

    The Days of Fighter Aircraft and Tanks are over. We are now on the next level. Remote Controlled Drones that fly twice as fast, twice as high, require less training, drop twice the ordinance, do not need life support systems. Tanks are cold war coffins, they cannot operate in mountainous terrain, wet jungles, anywhere there are weak roads and bridges, they starve for fuel- they can be taken out by a helicopter or a man with a shoulder fired weapon.

    July 16, 2012 at 4:26 pm | Reply
    • Jason Kelling

      There are no drones that "fly twice as fast, twice as high, require less training, drop twice the ordinance, do not need life support systems." Additionally, drones can not only be taken down by MANPADS but by small arms fire as well. It would be nice if we had these things, but presently we do not, and when the fit hits the shan it is still piloted A/C that we call in for CCA/CAS, usually rotary wing. I am 100% behind providing the troops on the ground with autonomous, user-fed aerial weapons platforms that can bring overwhelming violence to the enemy, but those are still a ways away. I the interim, we have only fixed-wing A/C capable of delivering the large-end munitions occasionally called for in the field. Let your elected representatives know that you support battlefield automation platforms, both UAS and UGS, and hopefully one day we can take the fight to the bad guys without putting our troops in harms way any more than need be.

      August 28, 2012 at 6:30 am | Reply
    • Me

      You are well uninformed; drones are SLOW; they by the laws of fluid mechanics have far less LIFT, so they carry less ordinance. They fly lower than most modern combat aircraft; drones are SUPPLEMENTAL INTEL PLATFORMS THAT OCCASSIONALLY (do the statistical math.. 1:1000) DROP ORDINANCES... Aka, hellfire missiles tactically. You need to goto college. Idiot.

      September 23, 2014 at 11:12 pm | Reply
  19. drone killer

    didnt you hear about the nuke sniffing USAF drone iran jammed brought down the Isreal tanks
    hezbola jammed during lebanon Isreal war tanks sat looking for drone signals as hezbo
    with lasers handed off long fire grad rockets over hills into Isreal US M1 A1 tanks untill
    crews abandoned them seen on cnn msnbc and fox live IDF sent in F-15s cluster bombs to
    clear woods push ended again in libya us drones given to muslem socalled rebels jammed
    no signal no return no video while russian supplied drones given to daffy spotted targeted
    killed alqaeda obama rebels again as article sez unrelated and flight training mishap pilot
    forgot to lower gear an oxygen problem more like academy problem poor kids make better pilots
    the Navy Blue Angel 6 accident report concluded when BA6 attempted catch up 3 turns
    less than 220k return to formation not air show display 3 moves g suit squeezed piot
    better fit than 90% Marines blacked out at 50 feet above the ground recomended no longer
    using blouse of cong member ill socalled "combat edge" g suit if drones worked so well
    there would be less ied and US Soldier deaths not 10 times more but thats obamas
    terrorist loving rules of engagement for ya mon i ka mon i ka

    July 16, 2012 at 3:00 pm | Reply
    • Nukem

      Didn't you ever hear about punctuation? Seriously, what did the question mark or period ever do to you?

      July 16, 2012 at 4:09 pm | Reply
    • Mil

      Normally I don't comment this late on any postings, but credit where the talent is shown, that is one fine peice of (maximum degree of difficulty) articulation. Boomhauer got nuffing.

      July 26, 2012 at 10:07 am | Reply
  20. drone killer

    signals for UAVs can be jammed above water as well as below soviets worked on this for years
    as iran showed uavs are a dead tech above water as below

    July 16, 2012 at 2:51 pm | Reply
  21. some guy

    why dont they use the O2 system of another series of jets and fit it in.

    July 16, 2012 at 12:44 pm | Reply
    • Critical Thinkers

      They already do.

      July 16, 2012 at 12:51 pm | Reply
  22. some guy

    call Lockheed Martin, let them know there is a problem. let them also know that if they ever want to sell even a Bolt to the US and its allies ever again, they must fix this issue now and free of cost. Research and development is not the Air Forces Job its the suppliers job.

    July 16, 2012 at 12:40 pm | Reply
  23. curt

    Another military boondoggle. For each one of those F22 we could have nearly a 100 drones. You tell me which is more effective.

    Time to put the cold-war mentality for military hardware to rest.

    July 16, 2012 at 12:15 pm | Reply
    • Critical Thinkers

      Exactly. Equip them with air-to-air missiles with neutron proximity warheads to fight the manned enemy fighters. No radiation fall-out hazard, just dead enemy pilots.

      July 16, 2012 at 12:21 pm | Reply
      • Amicus Curiae

        Grig: Remember, Death Blossom delivers only one massive volley at close range... theoretically.
        Alex Rogan: What do you mean "theoretically?"
        Grig: After all, D.B. has never been tested. It might overload the systems, blow up the ship!
        Alex Rogan: What are you worried about, Grig? Theoretically, we should already be dead!

        July 17, 2012 at 5:42 pm |
    • jack 1

      Depends on what you want them to do. You can't only have drones as you airforce fighting force. Quit whinning.

      July 16, 2012 at 12:23 pm | Reply
      • Critical Thinkers

        Says who? There are all kinds of UAV's and potential UAV's. Anything that can fly can be made into a UAV, from a mcro-chopper to a C-5. Two things need to be perfected first: 1) enhance GPS security to prevent spoofing and 2) the mentality of pilots so they can look to the future of pilot-less air combat as the best way to scout, attack, and defend. Turkey's pilots would have survived if they were piloting an unmanned F-4 Phantom to scout Syrian air defense radar capability.

        July 16, 2012 at 12:33 pm |
      • albert

        And what happens if the enemy takes out the GPS satellites? You need the human factor. If for nothing else, backup.

        July 22, 2012 at 8:52 am |
  24. Critical Thinkers

    We could turn the F-22's into UAV's just like the F-4's were turned into drones for target practice. Try one or two conversions, then convert all of them if the test planes work. One benefit is the F-22's performance would not be limited to the g forces that a pilot could withstand. Also, unlike the Viet Nam era, today's air-to-ar missiles are highly sophisticated and could get the job done. The only prolblem standing in the way are pilot's egos, they just wouldn't get the respect any longer that they feel they deserve, plus the thrill of flight. F-15 Strike Eagles should be converted too since the opticals on a plane are now better than a pilot's vision even using binoculars. It's time to get rid of the battleship mentality in air superiority and tactical air strike capability.

    July 16, 2012 at 12:14 pm | Reply
  25. Hahahahahahahahaha

    More "Tax Breaks For The Rich" ought to fix the problem. Hahahahahahahahahaha

    July 16, 2012 at 12:05 pm | Reply
    • palintwit

      After all, they are "The Job Creators". Hahahahahahahahaha

      July 16, 2012 at 12:19 pm | Reply
      • bigot

        yeah and they have created so many jobs.................

        July 16, 2012 at 1:57 pm |
  26. Kevin

    The cause is simple. An overpaid engineer who has to justify his/her existance by replacing a perfectly good system with a "modern" "high tech" system, that doesn't work.

    Oxygen systems have been in use longer than most engineers have been alive. Why mess with success, it's just a flippin O2 system, it's not a guidance or weapons system. The O2 system out of any jet built in the last 50 years woiuld work perfectly fine

    July 16, 2012 at 11:51 am | Reply
  27. Roto

    Remarkable. The some of the best engineers in the world can't figure this out after over a year. And for the pinnacle plane of the fleet. I'm wondering if they are breathing the plane's exhaust unfiltered (strangely the F22 pilot gets his oxygen from the engine exhaust I understand). Kind of like driving with the exhaust routed through the AC.

    July 16, 2012 at 11:51 am | Reply
    • Cranky

      Combustion depletes oxygen; engine exhaust is nonsense. Rather, oxygen is processed from bleed air (from the compressor stage of the jet engine). The oxygen generator has two beds of molecular sieve material that absorb nitrogen, leaving air enriched in oxygen. The two beds are used in alternation: one is absorbing nitrogen and delivering oxygen-enriched air to the pilot, while the other one is being purged of absorbed nitrogen. An automatic valve system periodically switches roles for the two molecular sieve beds.

      July 16, 2012 at 3:39 pm | Reply
  28. RRMON

    Tank, load me with a pilot program to an F-22 with the updated oxygen-time integration breathing system.

    July 16, 2012 at 11:48 am | Reply
  29. Jaimie

    Lets give out more information to russia and china on our aircraft problems.

    July 16, 2012 at 11:48 am | Reply
    • Ben

      And yet if this wasn't in the press, the same people would be screaming "COVERUP! COVERUP!"

      July 16, 2012 at 12:14 pm | Reply
    • Kevin

      and Israel... they steal and sell our technology to China and others.

      July 16, 2012 at 2:47 pm | Reply
  30. Al

    The AF needs to stop putting pilots in these planes because they are dangerous.

    July 16, 2012 at 11:41 am | Reply
    • Amicus Curiae

      FYI to Al. Flying fighter jets is dangerous, period. There are millions of ways the machine can malfunction and millions of ways the pilots and maintainers can foul-up. The best people and procedures have to be involved, and still "stuff happens".

      July 17, 2012 at 4:52 pm | Reply
  31. palintwit

    A chronic lack of oxygen would explain what happened to the Palin family.

    July 16, 2012 at 11:21 am | Reply
  32. LouAZ

    Yea, yea, yea. The Pentagon will answer Congress's "letter" about the F-22 Ox System just as soon as HHS answers Congress's "letter" about the cure for cancer, and the SEC answers Congress's "letter" about the collapse of Bear-Stearns. Their next "letter" will be to the Vatican about incomplete progress from the Burning Bush Directive.

    July 16, 2012 at 11:17 am | Reply
  33. Scott

    Global Warming!

    July 16, 2012 at 10:54 am | Reply
    • Amicus Curiae

      :)

      July 17, 2012 at 5:01 pm | Reply
  34. theseconddavid

    We can (could) go to the moon, but we can't figure out an O2 system? Ground the fleet and turn it over to the maintenance crews. They can probably fix it with duct tape and bailing wire.

    July 16, 2012 at 10:48 am | Reply
    • matt

      you've been watching a few too many movies my friend

      July 16, 2012 at 11:05 am | Reply
    • Amicus Curiae

      If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

      July 17, 2012 at 5:02 pm | Reply
  35. Ghost Of Michael Whitney Houston-Jackson

    They need to look at the recirculating swirl valve, on drawing A77-9.3 it is part number 003-299-9197 and was down-spec'd to 42mm right before it went into production. If they go back to the original 55mm (and associated piping) design, this problem will go away.

    July 16, 2012 at 10:40 am | Reply
    • 1st Sgt-TopKick

      Ta-Daa ! Perfect example of my earlier post: There are no longer ANY secrets in the Age of the Internet.

      July 16, 2012 at 10:47 am | Reply
    • Chris

      Nice, that almost sounds real LOL

      July 16, 2012 at 10:49 am | Reply
    • MrGuy

      In case anyone is wondering, 003-299-9197 is not a valid part number. "Ghost Of Michael Whitney Houston-Jackson" is a professional troll.

      July 16, 2012 at 11:56 am | Reply
    • Amicus Curiae

      Don't forget to pay attention and not overcharge the Schraeder valve. You could cause reverse flow and damage the mucous menbrane.

      July 17, 2012 at 5:37 pm | Reply
  36. SoSad

    I know what the problem is, "cost overuns sucked the air out of the plane" Stupid, a**!

    July 16, 2012 at 10:36 am | Reply
  37. JC

    I know what the problem is! I finally figured it out! The P.R. boys down in procurement are sucking all the oxygen out of the planes! Unexplained causes, bah!

    July 16, 2012 at 10:28 am | Reply
  38. Gatordon

    Let's remember that all new airplanes have had problems. Lok at the C-5 as a good example. The C-141 had such a small fuselage that it could not be overgrossed. The C-124 used almonst 2 barrels of oil per flight. This is not unusual for a new airplane. What is getting so muchattention is the fact this is a life support system. If something was wrong with the landing gear or radar, or even an onboard weapon system, it would not be getting this much attention. I think that this will end up being more fodder for those who want to move toward a remote fighter that can fly missions without a joy stick and can defend itself inuitively. The Brits are already there on that toy. I think the F-35 is the last plane to have a fighter pilot and this will just be another piece of the argument in favor of that.

    July 16, 2012 at 10:22 am | Reply
    • 1st Sgt-TopKick

      Believe you're right about F-35 becoming the last manned fighter. But, that argument started a long time ago when the firts RPV was launched (1930 – 1940 timeframe). The only thing that changed is that military flyers (always promoted from pilots to service chiefs) FINALLY began to accept that argument. Many of the military leaders stil suffer the "battleship mentality" that Gen Billy Mitchell tried to overcome and still think in terms of the last war. In the current matter, I wouldn't be surprised if Congress begins to get more involved and grounds the plane as a "budget" issue.

      July 16, 2012 at 10:46 am | Reply
    • Howard

      As long as their are 4 star generals with silver wings on their left chest over their fruit salad, there's gonna be human pilot if they have anything to say about it. And you'd better believe that they do.

      July 16, 2012 at 10:48 am | Reply
  39. Only the DoD

    From the land of the $600 hammer we now have the plane that is too complex to fix.

    July 16, 2012 at 10:20 am | Reply
  40. Juxsaposs

    The OBOGS is an out sourced product made by Honeywell INT. In England! Whoever approved putting foreign made parts in OUR defenses, should be fined double their kick back and OUT SOURCED to another country. Honeywell pays NO FEDERAL TAXE$!!! if i put 2+2 together I GET 4 . HONEYWELL IS AN ECONOMIC TERRORIST!

    July 16, 2012 at 10:15 am | Reply
    • 1st Sgt-TopKick

      You've obviously never served in the military. Suggest you go look up the reason that the military went to "7.62 mm" bullets and identical hardware / supplies from European parts from the days of the Cold War. The argument was put forward that American equipment in a war with the Soviet Union would be depleted / destroyed and couldn't be resupplied with "American-Only" made parts. By using the same standards and parts used by the Allies (NATO), you could put planes, tanks and ships right back in the fight. Take your personal political grudges someplace else and let aviation types have the floor here on this F-22 flight safety issue.

      July 16, 2012 at 10:54 am | Reply
      • Tom

        And you obviously have no idea what's been going on at Honeywell. Upper management has committed one blunder, mistake, and error after another due to CEO Cote's philosophy of micromanagement and surrounding himself with know-nothing sycophants. Quality and customer satisfaction have long since been scrapped in favor of making Wall Street predictions and this quarter's numbers. Cote had eyes on a seat on Obama's small business commission until O gave it to Jeff Immelt of GE. Cote is more interested in politics and power than he is providing quality products.

        July 16, 2012 at 12:19 pm |
    • Amicus Curiae

      The F-22 OBOGS works as it is designed to work. There have not been any measurements of toxic levels of anything, except maybe too much oxygen.

      July 17, 2012 at 5:05 pm | Reply
  41. nolongerarepublican

    Fighters have had oxygen systems in them since the 1930's.
    Here we are 80 years later, and the US still can't build one that works or figure out why one is not working.
    Time to call in the Germans, French, or Brits for help because the US has gotten really pathetic and backwards when it comes to technology.

    July 16, 2012 at 10:13 am | Reply
    • Jeeper

      Give McDonnell-Douglas and the Air Force a call, maybe they can use your expertise on the 02 system. Ever think it may have changed since the '30s?

      July 16, 2012 at 10:19 am | Reply
  42. George Patton

    For the first time, I feel glad that the Russians came up with their own stealth bomber. This world is sorely in need of a balance of power because without it, there can be no true peace. The problem is, is that our foreign policy is based on sheer greed, so quite contrary to what actor Michael Douglas once said, greed is not good!!!

    July 16, 2012 at 10:10 am | Reply
  43. Mark

    It's about computers, and some glitches are hard to find.
    But you have to keep looking. It could be a perfect storm
    of events/situations that produces that unique outcome.

    July 16, 2012 at 9:50 am | Reply
  44. larry5

    Do you really think we will ever hear what's really going on? Not a chance. The military does not even submit it's aviation accidents to the NTSB scrutiny even though the public in effect owns these planes because the good ole by system runs things.

    July 16, 2012 at 9:16 am | Reply
    • dave

      or maybe because if they release information before fixing the problems it might reveal possible vulnerabilities to our enemies

      July 16, 2012 at 9:47 am | Reply
    • 1st Sgt-TopKick

      There are no more secrets in the Internet Age. Use Google and you'll see that.

      July 16, 2012 at 10:39 am | Reply
      • albert

        Their is a lot of mis-information. Don't be foolish in thinking otherwise.

        July 22, 2012 at 9:03 am |
  45. rotsjm

    How about that the true winner that should be flying instead od the F-22 was the YF-23 built by MCDONNEL DOUGLAS.
    Give EX Senator Sam Nunn credit for that mistake and all the politics behind the F-22 getting the contract to begin with because the YF-23 out performed and out flew the F-22.

    July 16, 2012 at 9:08 am | Reply
    • Amicus Curiae

      Rubbish

      July 17, 2012 at 5:07 pm | Reply
  46. Jason

    No mention of Lockhead Martin?? If this was a car problem, they would be ripping the manufacturing (see Toyata)... Poor journalism to leave that significant data out of the article...

    July 16, 2012 at 8:54 am | Reply
    • Ed

      Unlike cars, these aircraft are not intended for general public use, and a congressional inquiry would seem to be a "ripping" or at least the early stages of one. What else should they be doing?

      July 16, 2012 at 9:17 am | Reply
  47. Roland

    Lemme guess you got the parts from CHINA.

    July 16, 2012 at 8:37 am | Reply
  48. dolan duck

    y don they jus opn the windwo?

    July 16, 2012 at 8:29 am | Reply
    • Jeeper

      Why don't you get a dictionary and learn how to spell?

      July 16, 2012 at 10:21 am | Reply
      • Dave

        guess you've never heard of dolan duck

        July 16, 2012 at 10:44 am |
  49. F-4 Driver

    The AF will get this fixed – I am confident

    July 16, 2012 at 8:02 am | Reply
  50. J Norry

    It's BUsjh's Fault!

    July 16, 2012 at 7:59 am | Reply
    • Back to class... recess is over

      Your abhorrent spelling and punctuation are great indicators of your intelligence... if it can be called that.

      July 16, 2012 at 9:00 am | Reply
  51. U.S. Minister of Defense

    This is what happens when you outsource your stuff to China. It doesn't matter how near identical the 'copy' is, it's still a copy.

    July 16, 2012 at 7:56 am | Reply
    • Cheese Wonton

      The DoD is not permitted to source components for their military systems from all but a few foreign sources such as the UK, and a handful of other Western nations. Even then, the components destined to be installed on US equipment have to be manufactured in the US, so the foreign firm has to set up shop here and submit to surveillance by DCMA and DCAA.

      July 16, 2012 at 9:55 am | Reply
  52. Interested

    You people commenting seem to be forgetting the fact that maintenance crews working in close proximity to the F-22 have also reported these hypoxia-like symptoms...

    It must have one hell of a faulty oxygen system to cause hypoxia to people who aren't even flying it.

    July 16, 2012 at 7:48 am | Reply
    • ialsoagree

      Sure, if by "near it" you mean, inside the aircraft, with a flight suit on, while wearing the jet's oxygen mask.

      The only ground crews that have experienced hypoxia like symptoms are those responsible for testing the OBOGS, not just any ground crew member who happens to walk by the plane.

      July 16, 2012 at 8:56 am | Reply
    • Amicus Curiae

      Or the power of suggestion has caused mass hysteria.

      July 17, 2012 at 5:09 pm | Reply
  53. viperdriver09

    Another example of a system rushed to the field without full testing. Why make a new type O2 generator when proven systems exsist on the F-16, F-15 and A-10? More money for the contractor. Now they can press the maintainers to find the cause and fix the problem.

    July 16, 2012 at 7:38 am | Reply
    • Cheese Wonton

      OBOGS is used in a bunch of aircraft besides the F-22. Pretty much every air force that operates high performance jets has wanted to get out of the liquid oxygen bottle business for decades. LOX bottles blow up and hurt or kill people all over the world. OBOGS is the solution, and the US Navy uses OBOGS on the F/A-18 without the problems the USAF has with it. Then again, the Hornet does not fly as fast nor as high as the F-22 (and costs less than half the flyaway cost of an F-22). The Eurofighter Typhoon, Hawk trainer and even C-130J's built for foreign customers all use OBOGS.

      July 16, 2012 at 10:00 am | Reply
      • Francisco d'Anconia

        The B-1 has had it (MSOGS) since the early 80s. T-6 also uses OBOGS.

        July 16, 2012 at 10:57 am |
      • Mustang Sally

        Actually, one of the things coming to light with the F-22 problem investigation is that the Navy has been downplaying their F/A-18 OBOGS problems for years. They STILL have OBOGS problems, especially when jets are backed up on the deck waiting for immediate takeoff.

        July 17, 2012 at 11:54 am |
    • Amicus Curiae

      It was fully tested for seven flight test years in the air, and operationaly since 2005, not to mention all the ground testing.

      July 17, 2012 at 5:11 pm | Reply
  54. Grey

    Hmmm. Wonder what it could be.... Maybe we should have stuck with that original manufacturer for our life support systems even though they were a bit higher, and cut back on the weapons systems. Of course then the plane would be completely useless... Hmmmm, maybe we could just use drones. They're faster, more accurate, and we can fly them anywhere without caring what our status with the country is... like in Pakistan.

    July 16, 2012 at 7:37 am | Reply
  55. Jt_flyer

    You geniuses are ruining the reputation a great aircraft with, what must be, one the simplest systems inboard the aircraft. Rip the entire freeking O2 system out and start over for god's sake.

    Stop fighting the problem and actually solve the problem.

    July 16, 2012 at 7:15 am | Reply
    • Amicus Curiae

      There is nothing happening to F-22 pilots that doesn't happen to F-18 pilots too (google acceleration atelectasis). The difference is that the media wants to ruin the reputation of the F-22. Why is that?

      July 17, 2012 at 4:35 pm | Reply
  56. AKIL

    Probably fumes from the aircraft computers, turbines, atmosphere air,the mask pilots wear,machine that makes the air etc etc etc.

    July 16, 2012 at 7:06 am | Reply
  57. mndude

    Should have given the contract to Boeing....

    July 16, 2012 at 5:55 am | Reply
    • Jeeper

      Boing doesn't build fighterplanes.

      July 16, 2012 at 6:07 am | Reply
    • Jt_flyer

      Boeing buids fighter aircrft. They build the f-18 super hornet for example. They had an entry into the joint strike fighter completion but they lost our to the f35.

      July 16, 2012 at 7:20 am | Reply
    • Afell

      Boeing owns McDonnell Douglas and Rockwell North America. They make fighter planes, to include the competing aircraft to the F-22, the YF-23. In its inimical wisdom, the military chose Lockheed's YF-22 over the YF-23 due to it's higher maneuverability. The YF-23 was actually able to attain a higher supercruise speed and incorporated a better stealth design.

      July 16, 2012 at 8:34 am | Reply
      • Cheese Wonton

        But if it couldn't turn inside even current generation fighters like the SU-30 why buy it? We learned that lesson the hard way with the F-4 Phanom. Big, fast, heavy payload and just about every other fighter made could out perform it in a dogfight. Don't tell me you are going to always rely on long range missiles and stealth, that will only get you so far. Stealth aircraft are still visible to infrared systems and all the recent Russian and Chinese fighters have a big IRST on them.

        July 16, 2012 at 10:03 am |
    • Mustang Sally

      Hey genius, Boeing is Lockheed Martin's team partner on the F-22.

      July 17, 2012 at 11:55 am | Reply
  58. Natch

    Instead of molly coddling the contractor, McDonnell Douglas, about fixing this problem, the government needs to bear down on them, and force them to find, and fix, the problem. Who wants to bet that MD will ask for more money to fix this, once the solution is found?? And who else wants to bet that the Air Force will gladly hand it to them??

    July 16, 2012 at 5:40 am | Reply
    • Mike

      McDonnell Douglas ceased to exist in 1997 when they were bought by Boeing. Lockheed Martin is the contractor that built this plane.

      July 16, 2012 at 6:59 am | Reply
  59. almadenmike

    No mention of the "60 Minutes" report a few months ago on the earlier issues that blew this problem into public consciousness.

    July 16, 2012 at 3:51 am | Reply
    • Barth Gimble

      Agreed.

      July 16, 2012 at 7:48 am | Reply
  60. escher7

    They can build a jet that does cartwheels in the air but not fix a simple oxygen problem?? Very strange.

    July 16, 2012 at 3:20 am | Reply
    • USAF-Jon

      remember it takes a college education to break them but a high school education to fix them!

      July 16, 2012 at 4:04 am | Reply
      • ian

        You probably actually believe that.

        July 16, 2012 at 5:08 am |
  61. vinnieG

    THAT'S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU HAVE PARTS MADE IN CHINA. JUST VERIFY THE SOURCE OF THOSE PARTS.

    July 16, 2012 at 3:18 am | Reply
    • Eric

      No, that's what happens when too many of the parts are made in the US!

      July 16, 2012 at 4:25 am | Reply
  62. glennrobert

    We are in hot water, we are, we are!

    July 16, 2012 at 1:53 am | Reply
    • Chop suey

      I'm not racist, but in response I must say fock you ch1nk.

      July 16, 2012 at 3:04 am | Reply
      • escher7

        Don't understand your comment. Probably don't want to.

        July 16, 2012 at 3:22 am |
      • Chop suey

        He's a ch1nk.

        July 16, 2012 at 3:30 am |
  63. wendy

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    July 16, 2012 at 1:44 am | Reply
    • escher7

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      July 16, 2012 at 3:24 am | Reply
    • Cheese Wonton

      "Age-gap". Is that wht they're calling paedophiles these days?

      July 16, 2012 at 10:05 am | Reply
  64. wendy

    nice

    July 16, 2012 at 1:43 am | Reply
  65. Phunnie boy

    More problems for the F-22 "Raptor"? This is just terrible, it is, it is! How am I going to sleep with this kind of thing going on? Something here needs to be done, it does, it does! It's a good thing that China is financing our national deficit or we'd be in hot water, we would, we would!

    July 16, 2012 at 1:31 am | Reply
    • escher7

      Not phunny. This jet is a corner-stone of US air superiority. The F-15 is tired, even with all its updates. Fix the damn thing already.

      July 16, 2012 at 3:26 am | Reply
      • Eric

        The F-22 was under produced and not fully developed. There are numerous features, like the off boresight use of the AIM-9X, which will make it into the F-35 but not this plane. If we had produced another 500 then it would have been worth the dev costs but now it's just holding on. We should have gone with an upgraded F-15 (Boeing's Silent Eagle) – more bang for the buck.

        July 16, 2012 at 4:28 am |
      • scott

        Eric: while I agree with all of your points, I'm pretty sure the Silent Eagle was a recent development (last 4-6 years?) and wasn't around until after the production run of the 22's was completed.

        July 16, 2012 at 8:19 am |
      • Cheese Wonton

        Eric, find out what AIM-9X Block I is capable of. You know absolutely nothing, just some uninformed idiot trying to look intelligent on the internet.

        July 16, 2012 at 10:07 am |
      • JC

        I t may be a tired old bird.... but it's the fastest thing we have, and unlike the F-22, it works. The problem is that the F-22 just isn't ready. It's a plane designed to combat sophisticated aircraft and defense systems, and while it will be needed sooner or later, there isn't bug-all it can do about our current, jihad toting opponents. Yes, one of these days the Chinese or the Russians, or quite possibly the Indians are going to need a good kicking, but in the meantime, except as a concept, how the heck can we justify the cost and all the nonsense surrounding these problems?

        July 16, 2012 at 10:34 am |
      • Amicus Curiae

        @ Eric: The AIM-9X has been fired from an F-22 and will be operational well before the F-35. The F-22 is surely under produced, and the taxpayer did not get full value out of all the development because of it.
        @ scott: the silent eagle is just a proposal, not an existing aircraft. It will take time and money to make it so.

        July 17, 2012 at 5:31 pm |

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