By Jill Dougherty
Log on to the Korean Central News Agency's state-run website and you'll find a concise explanation of what North Korea's launch of an Unha-3 long-range missile is all about: It's not about the missile, it's about the satellite sitting on top of that missile.
"Kwangmyongsong-3, which is to be launched under the DPRK government's policy on space development for peaceful purposes, is an earth observation satellite for collecting data essential for the country's economic development," the agency says.
For the United States, and most other countries, it's very much about the missile. Missiles can be used innocuously to launch peaceful satellites - and they can be used to deliver nuclear, biological or chemical weapons. As the National Security Council's Tommy Vietor quipped Wednesday: "North Korea doesn't need to spend this kind of money on a weather satellite. Go to weather.com."
"Even the North Koreans say 'Yes, it's a ballistic missile but we're using it to launch a satellite,'" North Korea expert John Park, a research fellow at the Harvard Kennedy School, tells CNN, "and so if you use that legalistic interpretation, that's acknowledgment right there."
And if North Korea is launching a long-range missile, regardless of the purpose, Park and other experts say, it's simple: "They are in violation" of a series of United Nations Security Council resolutions.
The U.N. resolutions began in July 2006. North Korea test-fired a series of missiles and the Security Council demanded it "suspend all activities related to its ballistic missile program, and in this context re-establish its pre-existing commitments to a moratorium on missile launching."
The North Korean representative to the Security Council charged that "some countries" were trying to "misuse the Security Council for the despicable political aim to isolate and put pressure" on his country, and vowed the North would continue the launches to bolster its self-defense.
That autumn came Resolution 1718 after North Korea proclaimed that it had carried out a nuclear test. The Security Council demanded "that the DPRK not conduct any further nuclear test or launch of a ballistic missile."
Three years later, after Pyonyang conducted another nuclear test, the Security Council passed yet another Resolution - 1874. Another condemnation - another demand: "that the DPRK not conduct any further nuclear test or any launch using ballistic missile technology."
In February of this year, with the late Kim Jong Il's son, Kim John Un, filling his shoes, things were looking up. The North promised to freeze its nuclear activities, observe a moratorium on missile tests, and let international inspectors in. The U.S. would provide desperately-needed food aid in return.
State Department spokeswoman Victoria Nuland tells CNN "During negotiations, the U.S. side made clear we'd consider a launch a violation."
That was "conveyed orally more than once, and it certainly is in our records," she says.
But the North Korean regime has a different take on that conversation, saying that the agreement did not include launching a satellite.
"As a result, the DPRK-U.S. agreement dated February 29 specified a moratorium on long-range missile launch, not "launch of long-range missile including satellite launch" or "launch with the use of ballistic missile technology," according to a North Korean statement published by the country's news agency.
"NK is playing the bigger game of universal rights," said John Park. "They've cited every nation's right to the peaceful use of space, which is permitted."
In 2009 the North even took steps to follow international rules on notifying other countries about the flight path of its missiles and where the debris would fall. They did it again for this coming launch.
This time the Koreans did something they've never done before, they invited international media, including CNN, and gave them a tour of the launch pad and related facilities, including the satellite. One senior administration official told CNN White House Correspondent Dan Lothian it was a "propaganda tour" and accused the international press of "buying into it."
It's a charade, NSC's Veitor said.
"Why they're using the press to pretend it's a satellite launch," Vietor mused.
"They're taking all of the prudent steps and the required steps to be a member in good standing and carry out this peaceful use of space" Park says, but because the 2006 missile tests were so destabilizing anything they do subsequently is prohibited.
North Korea, he says, has a "case of selective memory," citing its right to the peaceful use of space – but ignoring U.N. resolutions telling it to stop.
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a missile is not a missile wheeeen ooo russia builds it. Give him a bicycle he is correct.
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Most of the space race in the 50's and 60's was just a thinly veiled attempt to test military technology. All the Mercury and Gemini astronauts rode ICBMs. The US and Russia both had secret programs to modify their manned spacecraft for military reconnaissance, shooting down satellites, etc. And, of course, the US was about as successful in their early rocket attempts as North Korea has been.
I shot a missile in the air, and where it lands I don't not................know
North Korea
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha....
So, when they say Selective memory, does that mean when they type in the coordinates, Target range is "34º 03' N, 118º 14' W", that would be the city of Los Angeles, CA.
For the record, the American space program used ICBMs as satellite delivery systems. Remember Mercury-Redstone? The Redstone rocket, used to send the Mercury capsule into orbit, was an ICBM.
And, as for the rocket breaking up? We're one to talk. At the beginning of our space program, the press said it straight out: "Our rockets always blow up."
Sarcasm
How do we KNOW that it's simply a test of a payload (weapon) delivery system? Because even they aren't stupid enough to put an expensive satellite payload on an untested rocket after two previous failures. The "payload" in this case was (in the best case) a dummy mass. I'm surprised we haven't heard them blame US for shooting the thing down... think about it, everybody KNOWS we (or Japan) can do it, it's an obvious spin to choose for the failure and then even use that as a pretense for something else. I'm just glad that payload didn't end up on my house... I would consider our government irresponsible if they allowed the NK's to put ANYTHING into orbit or even into a sub-orbital trajectory just so they never know if they got it right or not and to keep their junk from hurting anybody else.
Pretty embarrassing failure for the PRK. I think their firing squads are going to be busy for the next few days.
Their guns will probably blow up, too.
Oh, come on folks. When you throw a ROCK, it's a MISSILE! Get a grip on definitions.
The world should be concerned with North Korea having nukes, let alone missiles to toss them on. That said, it also makes me wonder why the security council thinks it is the world police... why do they get to have them and have say as to who can have??
Again, I agree NK should NOT be allowed to have them.
"Selective memory"? Considering that the U.S. space program was built by pet ex-Nazis with improved war missile designs, I'd say this reporter and our government are the ones with selective memories. How many missiles do we already have and sell around the world? How many military satellites do we already have? Why won't we sign a treaty vowing never to engage in war in space? More proof you can write biased journalism about other countries and ignore the stories at home.
Am I the only person who views the North Korean invitation to Western Journalists as a means of protecting the launch site from a pre-emptive strike? The news coverage seemed to ignore this possibility. I think it is borne out by the secrecy surrounding the actual launch after so much "openness". Thoughts?
Q. when is a missile not a missile?
A. When it is fired by N. Korea
You are right ! The only sovereign nation is the US. When is a missile not a missile? When it doesn't go anywhere!
I refuse to get my panties in a bunch over this. No more preemptive wars. If they launch a nuclear weapon, then we should bomb them back to the stone age. We should not get upset about North Korea's weather satellite, or Iran's power plants. All this just seems like hype to prepare us for a perpetual state of war.
They aren't in a stone age now?
They're in the bronze age. Maybe iron.
Can't imagine where the North Korean's would learn that this kind of activity is of any benefit? LOL http://news.yahoo.com/rocket-launches-secret-spy-satellite-us-military-114601775.html
"I learned it by watching you USA,,, I learned it by watching you .. Ok!!"
Is North Korea not using the telemetry data and chips that Clinton gave to China?
Is China not sharing or is North Korea just not smart enough to use it...yet?
Clinton
Gave China Chips for Nuclear War
Charles R. SmithWednesday, Oct. 1, 2003
Newly declassified documents show that President Bill Clintonpersonally approved the transfer to China of advanced space technology that can be used for nuclear combat.
The documents show that in 1996 Clinton approved the export of radiation hardened chip sets to China. The specialized chips are necessary for fighting a nuclear war.
"Waivers may be granted upon a national interest determination," states a Commerce Department document titled "U.S. Sanctions on China."
"The President has approved a series of satellite related waivers in recent months, most recently in November, 1996 for export of radiation hardened chip sets for a Chinese meteorological satellite," noted the Commerce Department documents.
((Waivers requested by Loral Corporation so China could launch its stuff cheaper than in the USA.))
These special computer chips are designed to function while being bombarded by intense radiation. Radiation hardened chips are considered critical for atomic warfare and are required by advanced nuclear tipped missiles.
Judicial Watch obtained the documents through the Freedom of Information Act, a Washington-based political watchdog group. Several documents were withheld from release by the U.S. Commerce Department for commercial and personal privacy exemptions, but none of the documents were withheld for national security reasons. Judicial Watch is expected to appeal the withholdings.
Decade of Betrayal
U.S. intelligence sources stated that the newly released documents illustrate the extent to which the Clinton White House placed trade – and trade with China specifically – above national security.
Google this thread to read the rest: clinton, loral, china, betrayal
Article is in the Newmax Archive.
That's just conspiracy theory baloney. Here we are complaining about trade imbalances and yet at the same time we refuse to sell them stuff? We basically killed our own manufacturing industries by not selling computer chips and other technology to China, which is the World's biggest customer. So what does the World's oldest continuous civilization, who was the pre-eminent superpower for nearly 3000 years done? Why, we forced them to manufacture all this technology at home. Now they are selling it to us! China is where your iPad and computer innards are all made! I don't see that Chinese leaders are stupid enough to say "Oh no, don't sell stuff to the U.S., because they are going to use these computers to design ICBMs to aim at China!" No, they sell it. Meanwhile, our manufacturers can't sell their stuff to China in return. So what should we sell to the World's largest market? Underwear? Cheap toys? Sorry, they don't need a $100 underwear that took an American union worker getting paid $50/hour 2 hours to make... They can have some guy making $1 an hour pumping out 120 underwears in the same time. So yeah, great point, just stop selling stuff to the world's biggest market. Smart, very smart. Yeah, you'll definitely prevent China, a country with more Ph.D.s than we have B.Sc.s, from developing their own tech. To be quite frank, we would be better off investing in China at an early stage and riding the wave rather than isolating ourselves from the inevitable with ridiculous conspiracy theories!
A rong ranged ronery saterrite?
Oh, look, a red-necked racist, how cute!
Ching chong chow ping dong wing fu yu general tso
I really Hope Someone, Be it Japan, South Korea or Whoever Shoots down North Korea's Illegal Missile Test. Its sad that such a rouge and Dangerous Nation like North Korea Violates so many US and UN Resolutions and yet The International Community does nothing. North Korea Needs to be shown that they MUST Abide peacefully with the rest of the world or Face its Rightly Deserved Consequences. I mean The US Just sent them 100 Million Dollars in Food Aide to help the innocent, starving people of that nation in an agreement to stop such activities as this Rocket Launch and then turned around and spit in our face and went full steam ahead with its Nuclear Program. Its sad how they treat their people and I am in no means supporting war of any kind but Be Much in prayer for this world and all the innocent people caught in the cross fire.
Illigal? I will be the first to admit that the government of N. Korea is among the worst examples of an opressive self destructive regime. But it is a government, it is a self-governing sovereign nation, and as such it has the the right to devlop its weapons program, and that includes building ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons. Countries in the UN, particular the US, france, china, russa, etc. are speaking from positions of absolute hypocrasy considering that they are sitting on stockpiles of thousands of nuclear weapons and ICBMs. The world might be frightened of N. Korea, gaining ICBM capabilites, and rightffully so, but they have no real right to say that they can have them.
Illegal? I will be the first to admit that the government of N. Korea is among the worst examples of an opressive self destructive regime. But it is a government, it is a self-governing sovereign nation, and as such it has the the right to devlop its weapons program, and that includes building ballistic missiles and nuclear weapons. Countries in the UN, particular the US, france, china, russa, etc. are speaking from positions of absolute hypocrasy considering that they are sitting on stockpiles of thousands of nuclear weapons and ICBMs. The world might be frightened of N. Korea, gaining ICBM capabilites, and rightffully so, but they have no real right to say that they can't have them.
Oh no! If they follow through with this launch the UN will have to pass a new resolution stating, "We really, really, really want you to stop doing that." What a joke.
He who yells the loudest is scared the most.
All that are feeling fear now are starting to experience what all non-nuclear countries have felt since WWII.
It is a general popular error to suppose the loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for its welfare.
-Sir Edmund Burke
The loudest voices we hear are those who advocate conflict, divisiveness.
-John C. Danforth
I'm not scared but thanks for your concern.
War with North Korea in the middle of all the other wars going on isn't a problem. It only take one man to push a button.
The problem is the one man pushing that one button will indiscriminately kill millions of innocent lives, whereas the guy who truly deserves it, is probably eating caviar and drinking cognac while watching gyrating strippers in the pool of his bomb shelter. Anyone who suggests an unprovoked nuclear bombing of any other nation and the indiscriminate murder of millions of innocent men, women, children, and babies, is no better off than Hitler from a moral perspective and should be seriously checked out for mental stability.
Answer: bomb the fuck out of N. Korea.
See my response to 'dupper', above. Seriously, do people think before they post something so idiotic? Your are basically publicly saying that you want to murder millions of innocent people because you don't what?... don't like Kim Jong Un? What does that have to do with other North Koreans who are already starving under his regime?
When it explodes
When it's Miss Sile – your new substitute teacher.
When it is sitting still.
Who cares that the United States is involved in numerous wars all over the world. Their people aren't starving, they just don't have a health care system like the rest of the civilized world. So their people are dying to.
People keep wondering why N. Korea would spend all this money with millions starving. The answer is so simple people. N. Korea does not care about human life. It has no tangible value. If one of their people dies, he/she can easily be replaced by another. More are born every day. If you don't believe that a government could be that cold, then go on living in your fantasy world and asking "why??" Reality is N. Korea imprisons, tortures, murders and starves its own people. Always have.
Gitmo, legalized torture, people dying from lack of medical care, arrest and detention without trial, highest jailing rate in the world, huge supply of nuclear weapons, gives same weapons to friends such as Israel, bullies and invades non-nuclear countries such as Afganistan and Iraq for their resouces.........oh, I'am sorry, you were talking about North Korea. How dare they refuse to do as the US tells them to.
Hey, the U.S. is far from perfect. I have no problem admitting that. But, um, are you seriously comparing the two countries? What exactly is your point? Are you trying to say that there's not much difference? If so, that's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. But if given the choice, I think I would rather live out my days in America. Why don't you move to a nice home in the DPRK, send me a post card and let me know how that's workin' out for you bro!
When is a missle not a missle?
It depends on what your definition of the word "IS" is.
...Excellent Clinton reference! Most have forgotten that one. Thanks for bringing it to the forefront again!
When it's a (OMG it's a corny straight line) mistletoe.
When it is 'King Missile' of 'Detachable P e n i s' fame.
Who cares they shoot ballistic missile or fireworks, they shall take the conscequences by making millions people on starvation. Ballistic missiles are useless to most people except weapon dealers.
Heck , our OWN space program started with U.S. Army Redstone rockets that they mated a Mercury capsule to. Besides, it's not like they've done exhaustive testing on these things. It'll probably rise 5 feet and then sink to the pad and crash in a ball of fire. Then the secret trials and purges will begin...
N. Korean official said "...vowed the North would continue the launches to bolster its self-defense." So, it is a military rocket test after all. What a surprise. If they wanted satellites for peaceful purposes, I am sure China or some other country would gladly oblige. N. Korea could then save the huge R & D costs associated with developing space launch vehicles. Might even be able to feed some of their people.
"N. Korean official said "...vowed the North would continue the launches to bolster its self-defense." So, it is a military rocket test after all. What a surprise."
your initial statement is taken out of context. this statement is referring to missile testing that took place in 2006 and is irrelevant to current events.
"The U.N. resolutions began in July 2006. North Korea test-fired a series of missiles and the Security Council demanded it "suspend all activities related to its ballistic missile program, and in this context re-establish its pre-existing commitments to a moratorium on missile launching."
The North Korean representative to the Security Council charged that "some countries" were trying to "misuse the Security Council for the despicable political aim to isolate and put pressure" on his country, and vowed the North would continue the launches to bolster its self-defense."
see, when you read the whole thing, you dont look like an ass on the internet.
Interestingly enough, how the idea of "huge savings on R & D" applies to US.... looks like US already saving by outsourcing both human and satellite launches to Russia.
Sooo...
1. They are launching a satellite – cool.
2. They are doing some nuclear testing – not so cool.
More importantly is the time between the two events. Weeks? Days? Hours? Related events?
I would like to launch some food to the poor peasants, like the Berlin airlift.
THEY NEED TO EAT FOOD THE SAME THINGS THAT US ALL BEEN EATTING HUMAN WASTE SHIT AND DRINKING HUMAN URINE FOR MORE THAN FIVE BILLIONS YEARS OLD KARMA WORLS ALREADY , AMEN .
Uhh.. how about one more time, but this time in English please...
dude just shut up your being ignorant
That intensely intellectually post was simply too difficult for me to follow. Next time try your best to talk down to the rest of us.
As much as I dislike North Korea, they are a sovereign nation that has all the right in the world to launch missiles, ICBM's satellites or anything else they want to send up just like we, the Soviets, Chinese, French etc,etc have for the past 60 years. Who are we (the U.S) to say they can't? We aren't the world's police. If they're testing for a nuclear device – that's their agenda – we've done it thousands of times. I don't like it, but that's the way it is.
Well said! I agree!
Actually they do not. Nk is a member of the UN and is bound by UN resolutions that says they can't. It is not just the US that is saying they can't.
jkhur-
That is one sloppily worded UN resolution that they are referencing.
The U.N resolutions ban any launch using ballistic missile technology...
I would guess that US, Russian, ESA, India, China and Japan's systems all use "ballistic missile technology".
You said NK is a member of the UN and are bound by resolution that say they can't launch but the US and the rest of the UN members are authorized to launch? That is hypocrisy and it is deplorable to say the least! And even Pakistan that harbored OBL for a decade can continue to test nuclear weapons but NK cannot launch a weather satellite? That is rediculous!
It's not just us. It's also the EU, the UN, Japan, Australia, and their other neighbors. Heck, even the Chinese are telling them it's a bad idea.
Those countries you mentioned have not at all stated publicly or in private that NK shouldn't launch that rocket! The US has a tactical way of using the word "We" to imply that other countries with their own problems are behin's its BS foreign policies but those countries could care less if NK launches a weather satellite or conducts military exercises along its border!
Actually, yes. Japan, Phillipines, and Taiwan, all neighbors to North Korea and all members of the U.N., have gone on record publicly and stated "We will shoot it down if it enters our territory." You are losing more credablity with every uninformed statement. By the way North Korea is also a member of the U.N.
It's not us (as in U.S.) it is the UN telling them not to do this thing.
Some people on this board have pointed out that NK is a sovereign nation, and should therefore be allowed to launch missiles just like every other country. That sounds vaguely like a child defending his bad behavior with, "it's a free country!!" Someone once said, "with great power comes great responsibility." The DPRK has shown over the years that they are completely irresponsible in just about every way imaginable. North Korea is an Orwellian police state that exercises complete control over its people, and operates with total disregard for the entire international community. In terms of regional stability on the Korean peninsula, and in a larger context Southeast Asia, any developments or programs with direct military applications or utility must be denounced by the international community.
"with great power comes great responsibility" – that was Spiderman's uncle.
When those nations you mentioned did there testing, they weren't getting aid in exchange for not doing nor where they deliberately engaging in acts of war. Shelling islands belonging to South Korea, sinking a South Korean ship, counterfeiting US currency, carrying out blatant terrorism in South Korea. North Korea gave up it's rights to do anything but be reduced to glass over a decade ago.
I agree in principle, but not in practice. In principle, you're dead on. In practice, non-proliferation is still better than unchecked proliferation. Better to have 3 or 4 mafia leaders in control of the prison yard and keeping things in check than an all out riot. The best thing to do would be for everyone to de-escalate. I'm sure North Korea would be more compliant if we ourselves were not spending $700 billion a year on our military. By comparison I think their military budget is only about $5 billion. Sure, a lot for a starving country, but what position are we to be spending so much on developing and manufacturing new weapons, but decry that they are spending less than 10% of what we are?
all missiles are rockets and all rockets are missiles.....
it is like asking when is telling someone they look beautiful a compliment or when is it harassment.
Whatever this thing is, it has passenger airplanes down to 10 in the area. I think the U.N. is expecting something
@scott
No, you seem to be the one living under a rock! Were there daily market place bombings, suicide bombing and tribal civil warfare when Saddam Hussein was in power? Perhaps I can answer that for you! A resounding NO!
Wow – clueless – The entire northern portion of Iraq was in open rebellion against Saddam, The southern portion had rebelled following the Iran-Iraq war but Saddam has crushed them. There may not have been daily market bombiings but that was only because Saddam so terrorized the populace. Once his secret police and terror squads were off the scene, sectarian conflict emerged but to suggest Iraq was a peaceful place prior to the invasion is simply absurd.
Yes, the northern part of Iraq, the Kurds were involved in a long civil struggle for cecession but there was not an ongoing civil war in Iraq between the Hussein government and the Kurds! They were isolated and neglected but isolation and neglect is different to a civil war! Furthermore, if there was indeed a civil war between the Hussein government and the Kurds, then why did we go into Iraq looking for WMD's instead of going in to liberate the Kurds? That is because there was no war taking place between the Hussein government and the Kurds!
I'm surprised you are actually arguing for Saddam Hussein... He did keep sectarian voilence in check though. However, Rumsfeld and the C.I.A. staged a coupe' in Iraq and set Saddam in office to curb Iran eventually causing that war. That whole deal was our bad... But still you are arguing pro oppressive dictators here. Where is your logic? In my earlier statement you fall into both option 1 and option 3 as to how we would look if we did those things.
The Iran v Iraq thing is a myth. Since the mid-90s, Iraq has only been a speed bump for Iran–the balance of power was long gone.
Saddam gained power in 1979 from a coupe' staged by the C.I.A. They have publically acknowledged this. Hell Rumsfeld and Saddam drank chai in Saddam's office afterwards. It's not a myth.
Anyone with a lick of sense would know that the Norks are fudging with the facts about the real intent of the launch. The vehicle isn't large enough to put a package–no matter the weight-into a high enough orbit for permanent escape velocity, a requirement for any MRV payload. They're simply looking to possess a threat-cudgle that lets the world know they have the ability to reach out and touch someone if they're feeling frisky and in the mood. The word of the day is...puerile.
I personally believe it's the unintended end result of 60-some years of an entire culture wearing lifts in their shoes and I'm psyching myself up for the coming Nork invasion by playing Homefront again. Try it...it's curiously cathartic.
i think you are wrong.
Lockheed Athena II seems to be in the same basic category as North Korea's UNHA3 vehicle that will be attempting to place the 220lb. Kwangmyongsong-3 satellite into Solar Stationary Orbit.
The American Athena II rocket can lift a one ton payload to solar stationary orbit.
HUMAN FORM WASTE SHIT AND HUMAN URINE ARE AFRAID OF TWO THINGS , THE FIRST THING ARE WE ALL AFRAID OF DEAD AND THE SECOND THING ARE WE ALL AFRAID OF SUFFERING , AMEN
bark, bark
PLEASE DIE
THE NORTH POLE AND THE SOUTH POLE GONNA COLLIDE ON EACH OTHER SOONER THAN THE HUMAN WASTE SHIT ARE POOING OUT , AMEN
KARMA ARE REAL , KARMA IS FOR REAL TO ALL THIS HUMAN WASTE SHIT AND HUMAN URINE DOG HELL WORLDLY MATERIAL THING HELL WORLD , AMEN
OH I JUST SAW A HUMAN WASTE SHIT AND THE HUMAN URINE IN OUR DAILY DUMB ASSS LIFT ON OUR DAILY DOG WAY OF THINKING WORLD , AMEN
OH I JUST SAW A PUSSYCAT , AMEN
SO DON'T FUCK WITH THE HUMAN WASTE SHIT AND THE HUMAN URINE , AMEN . THAN KARMA WON'T APPEAR EITHER FROM THE DAYS LIGHT TO THE BLACK HOLE LIGHT .
I TRHINK THE NORTH KOREA TRY TO PLAY THE APRIL FOOL MONTH ON ALL OF OUR HUMAN WASTE SHIT AND HUMAN URINE THAT WHAT WE ALL BEEN THINKING ON THE FULL KARMA AFFECT ARE COMING TO ANY GIVEN TOWN , AMEN
NO I THINK MORE POWERFUL EARTHQUAKE SUCH AS 1O.O TO 15.O IN THIS HELL HUMAN WASTE SHIT AND HUMAN URINE TOBE AWAKENING ALL THE DOG AND CAT UP , AMEN .
I JUST TOOK SOME MEDICATION ALREADY DOG WHAT YOUR HUMAN WASTE SHIT AND HUMAN URINE TALKING ABOUT , AMEN .
We just need to have the UN write another resolution to declare "peace in our time"....that should settle it.
You think a war is better than diplomacy? I mean sometines you have to resort to war to bring about peace but there comes a time when diplomacy is the only answer! For example, you can go to war to end a war! But you wouldn't want to start a war against a country that's at total peace to destabilized it(aka Iraq)! Diplomacy is the first resort and war is the last resort! I learned that in grade school!
Iraq was a mistake, but "at total peace"??!?
What rock are you living under?
North Korea is still at war with South Korea and the U.S... The difference must be known between a cease-fire agreement, an armistice agreement, a surrender, and a peace treaty.
War is not the answer in this situation however, diplomacy is always an option but there are times when war is the only option. I think that's what you were trying to say.
FYI. North Korea ALREADY is at war.....
like WOW really? yeah....
Ever heard the phrase a dog is more bark than bite? Sure, you give him a bone and a pat on the head and suddenly he's man's best friend! I personally believe if we give NK a little slack and some trust, there is a likelyhood that it can rejoin the league of nations in the long run and become an ally and a worldwide conflicts! I find it ironic that the UN in located right here in the Big Apple yet we seem to have problems using the UN to bring about diplomacy in the world! Pathetic!.
Correction: make that, we should use diplomacy to end worldwide conflicts!
I think it's more revealing that through all these decades of American-hating by the world (even you), the UN has never chosen to move OUT of NY... I wonder why?...
Yep, the UN should move to PyongYang... that'll solve all the problems...
We have for decades given NK trust. They have repaid it by repeatedly breaking the agreements they sign with us. They fully intend to continue their nuclear weapons and missile programs. Not necessarily to start a war but to use as a stick in any future negotiations. All we have succeeded in doing since the 1980's is help sustain and enable the NK regime to continue to pursue their weapons programs rather than focusing on the internal econmoic and social issues within NK itself. Continuing to give them anything until they choose to demonstrate that they can be trusted (by unilaterally ending their weapons program and missile program and opening their doors to inspections, stopping their unprovoked killing of South Koreans, etc) is counter productive and pointless.
A "missile" is any projectile. A rock is a "missile". A "rocket", on the other hand is really what should generate concern. A "rocket" can launch "missiles" of various types into all kinds of trajectories including orbital and long-range suborbital trajectories. It's the explosive warhead that is launched as a "missile" by a capable "rocket" that is the real concern here.... No... strike that... the real concern here is that the whole human race is apparently so stupid that it can get tripped up by false logic created by such a simple (deliberate?) misuse of language.
@Bobby
So they did find yellow cake in Iraq? Really? And did they also find 16 candles on the yellow cake?
IRBMs from the U.S. and the U.S.S.R. were dismantled under Gorby and Reagen because of the implications, putting ships or subs off of a coast and launching them against major cities. Whether it is an ICBM or an IRBM matters not, they are still military weapons being used by military forces despite the claim of a satellite payload.
I absolutely believe they are launching a satellite. I also absolutely believe they can use knowledge gained from the launched for the purposes of launching Nuclear loaded ICBMs/IRBMs.
A duck is a duck. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, good chance its a duck. Even if the duck lies.
Its hard to explain why NK would even want a space program. If a "weather sat" is what you want, it would be 10,000 times cheaper to simply outsource and purchase the data from 20 other countries that already have a robust space/weather capability.
Indeed.
"When a missile is not a missile?" - i.e., what is the difference between ballistic missile ans space launcher?
Very simple: a ballistic missile, unlike space launcher must have all of the following properties:
1. Employ some sort of storable fuel: either NDMG+NH4 pair or a solid fuel in order to be able to stay on "stand-by" alert for extended periods of time. In practice this translates into 3-minute readiness over a period of 10 years without any maintenance whatsoever (for this reason state-of-the-art ballistic missiles have absolutely NO rubber seals, gaskets, etc.., and no batteries - using electricity supply from the ground while on alert thereafter, once engines are started, use an APU power generator or drive energy from rotated turbopump, whatever).
2. ballistic missiles are designed under stringent geometry requirements to fit into a subsurface silo or a launch canister of mobile launcher, or a submarine. Stationary above-the ground launch pad is considered obsolete in modern world because of being too vulnerable to be attacked. Especially if requires a few-hour long preparation before the launch. The shapes are constrained to basically a constant-diameter cylinder, even thought it may not be optimal for other reasons (structural strength, air dynamics, etc). There were noticeable steppinesses in early designs of early versions of Minuteman (1, 2, but not 3), Pershing, and the initial Saber/Topol designs - second stage has smaller diameter than the firs, and so on. These was in the past. Modern ones are always straight cylinders (same diameter for all stages). Space launchers do not have these geometric constraints.
3. Employ a self-contained navigation system, inertial or intertial+astrocorrection. Once off the ground, in is completely on its own. It is a fire-and-forget thing. Space launchers require ground control and rely on ground-based (or space-based, or combination thereof) telemetry stations.
4. Liquid-fueled long-range ballistic missiles are always have two stages; solid-fuel three stages. This is dictated by the relative efficiencies of the respective fuel (specific impulse, known as "isp"). More stages are unnecessary, and in fact, would not be not optimal. Space launchers use at least three stages while using liquid fuel (Space shuttle is essentially a two-stage system, but this is achieved by using hydrogen-oxygen pair which has 1.5 times "isp" relative to the best available storable fuel.
5. Ballistic missiles are designed for higher acceleration to avoid being intercepted (or even detected). For this reason they also use earlier declination from vertical direction during their launch trajectories, i.e., Minuteman starts vertical, but noticeably declines from vertical direction very quickly, literally within a few seconds. In contrast Soyuz/Proton start vertically and go out of sight before any declination becomes noticeable. Larger accelerations are not acceptable for space launchers because of fragility of their payloads. Overall this leads to noticeable differences in weight distributions between stages of ballistic missiles vs. space launchers.
....some space launchers may satisfy some of the criteria above, i.e. Russian Proton and Chinese Shenzhou rockets use NDMG+NH4 pair (in principle can stay fully fueled for extedned periods of time), but no space launcher satisfy all. Mainly, all space launchers fail readiness criterion. Despite the high degree of automatization of all the procedures Proton requires about 20-day period preparation before each launch.
This Korean thing fails all criteria above, except, may be the duel. There is no official word about what kind of fuel it uses, but most likely it is NDMG+NH4.
wrong... a "missile" is any projectile... a "ballistic missile" is any projectile with a trajectory ONLY affected by its environment (gravity, aerodynamics, etc., it doesn't have it's own power source). Similarly, a "ballistic trajectory" is a trajectory that is affected mainly or wholly by gravity and aerodynamics. A "rocket" is a missile powered by some sort of non-air-breathing propulsion. All kinds of rockets (solid and liquid-fueled) exist. Some rockets are designed to be maintained on high alert for long periods of time and are designed to launch warheads into long-range ballistic trajectories. Some rockets are designed to be launched shortly after build, test, fueling and can launch "missiles" of ANY sort (satellites, warheads) into ANY kind of desired trajectory that the rocket was designed for, including extra-orbital, orbital, or sub-orbital trajectories. Obviously, if orbital velocities and a targeted orbital ballistic trajectory can be achieved, a targeted, long-range sub-orbital trajectory can be achieved.
Have you heard about a satellite launch executed by US MX missile? The answer is no, not a single time.
Munuteman 3 we used a couple times to launch a very small satellite to a very short-lived orbit. But this is it.
Trident/Polaris were never used to launch a satellite. The explanation is very simple: they are not technologically and commercially viable for this purpose, even if thought you are talking about a decommissioned ballistic missile which would have to be destroyed - cut into pieces or blown up - otherwise. Even if the missile is "free", the enterprise of using it to launch a satellite is still not commercially viable. Russian R-36/SS-18 was used to launch very small satellites a handful of times, two of these times unsuccessfully. The statistics is that out of 4,000+ ever objects placed to orbit only about 10 or so are done with ballistic missiles, and these 10 are purely small-scale experiments, not commercial communication satellites or so.
...Of course, paranoid Americans can call "ballistic missile" everything of shape of a cylinder with a cone on one end - a sharpened pencil for example - but that is American mental problem: too much watching CNN and FOX news.
You are confusing "criteria" with "typical characteristic.". A ballistic missile could be just a satellite launcher with less delta v, since it is suborbital. The other differences are optional. For example, a missile doesn't need standby mode if you intend to fuel it up and shoot someone.
No, I am not confusing anything. We are living in 21st Century, not in 1957. The kind of technology which requires 10 hours or more for launch preparation in an open, above-the-ground launch pad is COMPLETELY USELESS as a ballistic missile and poses no threat whatsoever, regardless whether or not it has nuclear warhead on top: it can be taken out easily.
The fact that countermeasures are more effective against a primitive ballistic missile does not preclude it from -being- a ballistic missile.
If we did pre-emptively strike a missile while it was being fueled, you can't argue that it therefore must not have been an icbm because it didn't have a standby mode..
What I am arguing is to look at things as they are and stop fantasies and legalistic speculations (whether NK is in violation of any UN resolutions - in the end it boils down to what the definition of word "is" is).
NK want this launch for their own reasons, possibly propaganda directed for their internal consumption. I doubt any scientific or practical value of their satellite.
Regarding their technology as a potential threat to anyone, the threat is purely environmental - these kind of fuels are very poisonous, so if this thing goes of course and crashes somewhere, it is a bad news. Other than that I am not concerned at all.
Same applies to Iranian nuclear program - the worst thing which might happen is that Iranians start building their own indigenous design lagging 50 years back in safety standards, then it goes operational and something goes wrong and then they do not know what to do.
....As far as the number of people killed by ballistic missiles ever, I believe it is 28 Marines killed by a Scud hitting their camp during the First Gulf war. The number of marines killed in car accidents (without enemy action) during the same war is much larger.
It's really not a question of how primitive and ineffective the technology is. NK has a nuke program, and if they have the capability to put something in orbit then presumably they can also put something on a suborbital trajectory. Knowing that, we have to respect that capability. They know this.
It's likely that their motivation in developing this capability is not to nuke us, but rather to continue to use it as political leverage. For example, to get food aid..... Again .... In exchange for suspending work. Alternatively they could start fueling a missile, force the US or SK to preemptively destroy it, and then get concessions to not retaliate for this attack on their "peaceful satellite launch system." To accomplish those goals, they don't need a modern icbm capable of landing on the Washington monument, they just need a credible threat – like a ballistic missile (or whatever u want to call it) plus a nuke
Frankly, I believe that it is Washington, not NK who is a problem here. NK is just a self-isolating regime whose only goal is self-preservation. It does not threaten anyone as long as it is left alone and not provoke. Whatever propaganda NK puts together for its internal consumption it is their internal business.
Russia is, obviously, irritated with both of them, both NK and Washington DC, dumb and dumber, because Washington uses this occasion to boost its own paranoia about the need of missile defense and wants to point finger at NK and say "look, here is the threat" then give away another couple hundred billion dollars to Raytheon and other best friends of Dick Cheney for the R&D, while knowing in advance that a single conventionally-armed BGM-109 Tomahawk (the total cost $800,000) is more than sufficient to take it out whenever NK puts it on their launch pad. Basically lying to its own taxpayers.
In the end the whole NK launch fails miserably this time (as well as the two previous times), but lets see what US politicians will say tomorrow.
JADE BUDDHA FOR WORLD PEACE , BUT UNFORTUNITLY THIS DOG WORLD JUST NEEDED MORE OF THE HUMAN WASTE SHIT AND HUMAN URINE TO SMELL AND GET AN INHALING OF IT FROM THE STINKY STAND POINT , KARMA , AMEN .,
Your comments were inane enough the first time.
What is wrong with you?
TOMG
Human Urine can be used to make Saltpeter, and important part of gun powder..checkout the Napoleonic Wars (1799-1815)..
WHEN ONE ARE HUNGRY ALL ONE IS REALLY NEEDED ARE JUST NEED TO EAT A HAMBURGER OR A HOT DOG OR A CHEESBURGER , BUT WHEN ONE ARE TIRED ALL ONE REALLY NEEEDED IS JUST GO TAKING A NAP , AMEN .
I personally believe it would be premature and counterproductive for us to suspend the food aid to NK because of this launch! I say so because we must demonstrate to NK that we have gotten their trust and with that trust, comes the potential for deplomacy! And if some restraint from on our part would lead to NK eventually agreeing to abandon its nuclear program and allow inspectors in, then why not give them the benefit of the doubt and not try to betray their trust? After all, the launch of a f-ing rocket is not going to present itself as an imminent threat to the region or to the US so why can't we act like the grown up in the room for a change?
Here's the reason why it's a big deal... They have threatened to use nuclear weapons in the not so distant past. That's why everyone is going ape s**t. They already have nuclear capability all they need is a reliable launch system. As far as the food goes, I don't have an answer. Innocent, un-involved citizens are dying both from their own government as well as starvation. I firmly believe wehave three options, none of which are good options.
1: We pull the trigger and initiate military intervention. Our government once again looks like they are picking on the little guy. Our military will look bad, because of the innocent, un-involved, civilians on the battlefield(COB). Look up collateral damage. I have first hand experience with this.
2: We continue with food aid. Nothing changes. They get what they want and they get to focus their resources on things other than infrastructure and agriculture. Again nothing changes. Innocent civilians will still be dying from starvation and oppression.
3: We shut off all ties with North Korea. Our government then looks bad because we did nothing and walked away from the negotiating table. The civilians will still be dying for all the same reasons.
I would be more willing to sign on for the last option. Speaking metaphorically you don't give my friend two black eyes (They shelling of a South Korean settlement and the sinking of a South Korean ship) then turn around and pull a gun on me and say give me some food or I'll do worse to both of you. I don't need to beat you up. I really don't want to give you food. So I'll just pick by friend up of the ground and take him home leaving him standing there with his gun he starved himself to nearly to death to build.
What I find outrageous about our double standard foreign policy is we tend to alienate our enemies and then expect them to respect and trust us! During GWB's tenure, he often referred to Iran and NK as axels of evil, yet both countries have fought only one war in modern history! They're not involved in aggression and do not bother anyone yet they're considered the bad guys! Then I find it outrageously appalling that at the end of his second term, GWB would have the nerve to try to negotiate wit NK to give up its nuclear ambitions for food after you referred to them as axels of evil for eight years! Its no surprise that NK didn't negotiate with the Bush administration! So today I say speak up and condemn the launch to show NK that you're serious about it giving up its nuclear ambitions but at the same time, please don't cut off the food aid and isolate them onse more because we have more to lose than does NK in the long run!
Ok, this is something you know little about. Iran? Sure, I don't know anything about them or their nuclear program. I've never been there. No experience or knowledge about it whatsoever. I do however, know about the demilitarised zone. Skirmishes happen all the time all along the 38th parallel. As far as former President Bush goes... Well... I didn't agree with him nor his "Axis of Evil" statement.
COMPASSION COMPASSION COMPASSION , WE ALL LOVE FOOD TO DIGEST INTO OUR HUMAN WASTE SHIT STOMACH , NOT THE WEAPON OR CAR OR METAL TO DIGEST INTO THIS HUMAN FORM STOMACH ORGAN TO RELEASE THE BADDEST HUMAN WASTE SHIT THAT ALREAD STINKY AND SMELL ALL OVER THIS KARMA AND STUPID CIVILIZATION WORLD NOW DAILY , AMEN .
you need to take your medication.
Or stop taking it.....
JUST LET THE MOTHER 1O.O TO 15.O EARTHQUAKE TO TEACH AND TO AWAKENING THIS HUMAN WASTE SHIT AND HUMAN URINE IN THIS TWENTY – FIRST CENTURY FULL OF DOG AND CAT KARMA MATTER NOW DAILY , AMEN
CIVILIZATION SOCEITY ARE FULLY LOADED WITH THE HUMAN WASTE SHIT AND HUMAN URINE ALREADY , AMEN .
MORE MOTHER OF ALL OUT 1O.O EARTHQUAKE WILL PREVEIL IN THIS HUMAN WASTE SHIT AND HUMAN URINE KARMA ARE JUST COMING THROUGHT LIKE A BREAK THROUGHT , AMEN .
THE SUN SOLAR POWERFUL AND THE MOON LUNAR POWERFUL AND JESUS AND MOTHER MARIA AND THE HAPPY BUDDHA AND THE FIRST BUDDHA ARE WATCHING THIS HELL AND HEAVENLY DOG AND CAT WORLD THAT ARE FULL OF HUMAN WASTE SHIT AND HUMAN URINE NOW ON THE DAILY BASIC , AMEN .
ONLY HUMAN WASTE SHIT AND HUMAN URINE ARE FULLY LOAD INSIDE THIS ROCKET PAYLOAD DOG WORLD , AMEN
MORE MOTHER OF ALL OUT EARTHQUAKE 1O.O ARE COMING TO THIS HELL HUMAN WASTE SHIT AND HUMAN URINE KARMA DOG AND CAT SOCEITY NOW DAILY , AMEN
I think this guy is retarted or something i don't understand anything he is saying.
when yuou shoot it out of a coke bottle??? (;
LET IT FLY DOG WORLD , FULL OF HUMAN WASTE SHIT AND HUMAN URINE NOW DAILY , AMEN .
This hasn't anything to do with a satellite. It is a test of a new delivery system for a NUKE warhead plain and simply. North Koreans are so darn naive they think they can cover this up as peaceful. Eat rats you fools
oh absolutely.
The only ones more naive are young american liberals...
(clueless with a desire to affect change)
dangerous combination
shouldn't be allowed to vote till you're 30
That's about the most ridiculous statement I've ever heard. As if extreme conservatives are any better than extreme liberals. Want an example of extreme conservatives in action? Look at Iran or any other nigh-tyrranical reign. Both sides are equally capable of doing harm to the common good. It's sheer idiocy to think otherwise.
@Bobby and Reality
Then if NK is indeed trying to test and develop a long range missile for a nuclear strike, then why go through the tedious efforts of developing a long range missile for such a strike when your enemy SK is just right across the border?
SK is not their only enemy. Most US military equipment would be coming in through Japan for instance. So iJapan, Australia, the US would all be legitimate military targets for the NK's in the event of another war.
There is no need to worry about it reaching California or any other region. The intent of any ICBM is to breach atmosphere, launch a Satellite wich happens to be a cluster of nuclear warheads that will reenter the atmophere and select targets. If they can get a Sat in space they can get a nuke. Once in orbit they just have to be able to move it and determin targets on entry back to earth. Seems to me they can test most of that by launching a civilian Sat into space.
poo poo
It is a 3-stage rocket which was tested to fiqure what the range is. My belife is that they want to be able to get it to California, if they suceed the nucular testing will expand. Thats when the time to worry will be.
Perhaps the North Koreans told you so? And by the way, did they also tell you where Iraq hid the WMDs?
BTW for your info. they did find yellow cake in Iraq -do your homework
Let's face it, America's double standard foreign policy is appalling and needs to stop at once! I say enough is enough! Let me see if I get this right! We are offering NK thousands of tons of food and providing it with support to help its nation develop and improve economically! Yet we're condeming NK's efforts to launch a satellite for economic development? O' wait, so the West believes NK is trying to test a long range missible? So where is the concrete proof that NK is indeed trying to test a long range ballistic missile? You know the proof like in hard facts? You know the proof as in where are the WMDS in Iraq? So the West say the whole region is at a stand still because of this launch right? Really? And if so, then why Russia and China who border NK aren't complaining? And you say Japan and SK are at a standstill and worried about this launch? Really? Japan which survived Heroshima and Nagasaki and the worst sunami in history is concerned with the launch of a little spotnik type rocket? America please please, would you stop f-ing up the world for your own self righteous interests? please?
Proof they are trying to launch a ballistic missile? You mean like a photo of a giant ballistic missile on a launch pad?
That is, a ballistic missile with the INTENT to use in an offensive strike! I don't believe for one minute that the anti nuclear non proliferation threaty has a legally binding international clause that states that some countries in the world have a legal right to test a rocket, a satellite or the right to enrich uranium while other countries like NK and Iran don't have that intrinsic right! And by the way, which countries currently sell arms to Iran and NK? That's China and Russia! So why don't we go f-ck with them? America the phony superpower!
hehehe
Typical moron who doesn't appreciate what we have done for most of you other countries in the world who would have either been taken over or back in the stone age due to a natural disaster. Remind me what country you are from so I can bash your face in what we have done for you.
You are clueless.
Wherever you're from, you should wake up every morning and thank your god that America exists, otherwise this world would be smoked off by now.
Every little dictatorship who wants to build a nuclear arsenal doesn't automatically have the right to shoot off missles and call it peaceful.
They should need to apply to the NRC for such permission (If they've ever been connected to terrorism) which NK has in spades.
Im willing to bet my paycheck you live in the US Blah Blah.....I wonder why? Why dont you go live in North Korea????
Sure I live in the US, make that in a blue state where I believe in deplomacy and not in bullying those we call enemies just to flex our muscles! And what makes it right or legal for the US and SK to conduct annual war exercises on the border with NK and not expect NK to be annoyed or perceive our actions as provation and as a threat to their sovereignty?
Blah blah- because it's in SK sovereign waters? Should we get to saber rattling any time china does something in their sovereign territory? There is most definitely a legality to it. Aside from the fact that NK has threatened to wipe SK off the map several times w/o provokation, I think NK can sit a stew over military drills. There is nothing illegal about the drills in the slightest. Saying there is is grasping straws.
We conduct military exercises to be prepared in case of a NK invasion. The last time there was a war it was when NK invaded. So it is SK that has a right to be nerbvous and concerned. US force structure in SK is not offesnive, We don't have the right mix or number of forces to invade NK present in SK even if we wanted to. It is a tripwire force. There to slow down a NK invasion and give time for SK to mobilize it's reserves and reinforcements to be brought in. It is the same setup that we used in Europe during the Cold War.
Proof?
Its simple, this is the exact same reason we built a space program in the 60's. Apollo moon landing? Yep, ICBM rocket tests, or it is a coincidence that the satrun 5 is a great nuke delivery rocket?
We need to stop getting so pissed off that the world is just following in our footsteps. "do as i sa not as I do" is for children, not nations.
So even though North Korea is utterly poor and can't even feed their own people, they somehow have the money and resources to "launch an an earth observation satellite for collecting data essential for the country's economic development."
Uh, what economic development? Just look at NASA's "Earth at night" picture, and notice the stark contrast between North and South Korea.
But you know, those North Korean farmers need to know what the weather is going to be like, even though they lack a lot of farming equipment and materials.
That doesn't mean poor countries shouldn't make sensible investments or expand research for economic development! A few years ago Greece hosted the summer olympics though it had serious economic problems and couldn't feed its people but that doesn't mean you shouldn't spend to try to improve your economy! Its what all nations do regardless of how poor they might be!
Yeah, hosting the Olympics does not equal test launching a long-range ballistic missile. Commie.
The mercury astronauts rode missles into space. They literally just took the warhead off and added a cockpit. Then lauched them more vertical than laterial.
The astronaut on board was a a good indication that the Mercury was for space exploration. Until NK puts a person on board, I'm not buying it.
I wouldn't trust them even if they put a person in there, they would probably just strap some unwilling citizen into the rocket and fire it, killing the person inside when it hits, thats what i think personally
more vertical than laterial? You must be a rocket scientist.
Who is to say that there is even a satellite onboard at all? The last "rocket launch" splashed down in the ocean, and no satellite was ever detected or recovered. This is North Korea testing their ballistic missile capabilities, nothing more.
-YAWN- More war posturing by all sides involved...
Dan: Not a yawn. A matter of importance. And war posturing by both sides? Seems to me the U.S., South Korea, and Japan are trying to discourage North Korea from a series of actions that would, if taken, bring the region closer to war.
"Blah blah the wheel" commented that Japan survived Hiroshima and Nagasaki, so the Japanese shouldn't be worried about North Korea's "little spotnik type rocket". That reasoning is so flawed it makes counter-argument unnecessary.
Of course not everything the U.S. does is right. But not everything the U.S. does is wrong, either. This situation, trying to discourage the DPRK from developing nuclear weapons and delivery vehicles, seems very reasonable.
Yes Alan, an Iraq has WMDs!
having satellites are important to any country in today's world. we all use GPS in our phones now. we don't have the right to prevent other people from developing and using satellites.
GPS in North Korean telephones? Stopping making us laugh! You've got a great sense of humor.
i agree that NK is so tech deprived that they are no threat
Do we have the right to expect them to help feed their own people, or should we do that and not say a word about how they spend a sizable portion of what money they have?
ever rescue a mistreated dog and then find out that it's the sweetest? maybe we should stop being suck dcks and nk would come around. they can't hurt us, anywya
yes, because we all understand the need of those free thinking North Korean people to share their thoughts via the internet and smart phones....
are you hearing yourself?
watch a documentary or something about NK.....then you'll see how silly that sounds.
you're silly too. we should crap ourselves b/c a country smaller than nj is about to launch a tube filled up with gasoline? it has no military payload.
Guy this a nation that has specifically threatened us in recent history with nuclear weapons. This is a country that calls this a lead up to "the Sacred War". They already have nuclear technology. They just need a vehicle for it.
"Log on to the Korean Central News Agency's state-run website and you'll find... " A pile of horse manure. What did you expect anyway?
A rocket is a rocket. The payload and the flight path determine whether it's a weapon or not.
It's a peaceful Launch of a Weather Satellite... If instead of a Satellite it carries a WMD payload It's an ICBM. Does anybody really, truly believe in the DPRNK's space Program? Really?? The Klingons with nuclear weapons and ICBM's? There's a scary thought.
this is an ICBM period
it is not intercontinental... it doesn't have the range. it is not a military missile b/c has no military payload or targeting system. it is not an ICBM. it might be a B, but the IC and M parts clearly are not there
How about a ship stationed 200 miles off the US coast? Missles can be moved to spots within it range.
We can't speculate as to the payload. The NKs have already shifted their story many times between what the intent was, what the predicted orbit was going to be (polar vs sun-sych), and some other details. Correct, it may not have the range to be "intercontiental", but it is at least an intermediate range ballistic missile (IRBM). The military is launching the device, and therefore it is a military project, seeing as their is no "Civilian" ICBM/IRBM out there currently.