SEALS helicopter crash photos
October 19th, 2011
05:16 PM ET

First photos from the SEALS crash site

By Pentagon Correspondent Barbara Starr

Amid the 1200-page military investigation into the crash in Wardak province in August are photos of the helicopter.  These are the first photos released by the military of the crash that killed 38 on board, including 22 Navy SEALS.  It was the biggest loss of life in a single day for the U.S. in the ten years of fighting in Afghanistan.

According to the report, the SEALS had been called in to reinforce other troops already in combat.  Just before landing, Taliban fighters hiding in a building fired rocket propelled grenades.  The rear blades were hit.  The helicopter crashed in seconds.

The report concludes there was no wrongdoing. But the mission may not have been optimally planned, and changes are being instituted for future missions.  Investigators found that three hours into the combat operations the Taliban had key advantages.  Those advantages made the helicopter, flying in to help the embattled troops, more vulnerable.

"These bad guys had been shot at.  They were alert. They were leaning forward.  They were prepared for the next shoe to fall and then what happened is a Chinook appeared in their crosshairs and they took advantage of it," said Spider Marks, a former senior intelligence officer who reviewed some of the report for CNN.

The steep mountain valley, with limited access points, gave the Taliban the critical edge to see what was coming at them.  Investigators were told "there's two ways in, two ways out, north or south."

As was routine, even with this area full of Taliban troops and weapons, U.S. military planners were not given critical information about the helicopters specific route.  Information that could have further helped avoid risk.

"One of the outcomes of this was, hey, we have been asking for it, but we never received it. Now, we are getting them," one of the them told investigators.

The report also found that the Taliban commander the United States was pursuing turned out to mainly pose a local threat, and was not considered to be a threat against larger population centers like Kabul. The target was was killed last month in combat operations.

soundoff (122 Responses)
  1. locksmith miami beach

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    June 5, 2012 at 4:26 am | Reply
  2. Jan

    leo, era per dire che nfs gi una serie che perde i colpi su tutte le piattaforme, se poi si mtetono a centellinare anche i poligoni senza sviluppare un sistema di controllo degno del wii, continuer a giocare burnout su pc ed excite truck su wii.

    April 6, 2012 at 9:58 pm | Reply
  3. james

    This report is a fraud.

    October 23, 2011 at 12:07 am | Reply
  4. Ayatollah Bear

    Guys the comments here are amazing. I have rarely seen so much objectivity and non-partisanship on an Internet board.

    So even though I feel a little bad I am going to shill my website anyways – http://www.globalbearings.net

    We cover the news, provide analyses, news roundups and a lot more on important global current events. We provide facts to help you be more informed, not feed you garbage talking points like much of the news. Please check us out, stay if you like.

    Today we had a picture essay on Qaddafi's death, tomorrow/tonight on Libyan reconstruction – soon we will be transitioning to talking about the Haqqanis in Af-Pak, or perhaps the Iraq withdrawal

    October 21, 2011 at 11:07 pm | Reply
    • Ayatollah Bear

      Actually qualification. In most cases I am talking about replies to replies (by the tin foil brigade generally)

      October 21, 2011 at 11:11 pm | Reply
  5. cyg

    Feel bad for the Service Hound that fell too.

    October 21, 2011 at 2:05 pm | Reply
  6. JOE

    Its just plain and simple facts to describe this tragedy, particularly the kinds of facts that rightwingers just can't stand. And the facts is that if George W. Bush and the current republicans in congress hadn't deliberately and recklessly abandoned and prolonged the Afghan war to start their illegitimate Iraqi war, these Seals would still be alive today. When I reflect back on that little ten year old boy who lost his Navy Seals dad, I just can't imagine the grief and pain he's going through and has to grow up with. This while war criminals like Dick Cheyney has no problems going on national TV and saying that he has "no regrets whatsoever." Personally, I just wished it was he and GWB who had gotten their demise instead of Gadhafi. But as they say, what goes around comes around and there's is coming soon.

    October 21, 2011 at 1:18 pm | Reply
    • Robert

      You're just another whiner that has to have someone to blame. Always pointing the finger, always having an excuse, never looking at the total picture not seeing things from a logical and objective viewpoint. Simply Pathetic!!!

      October 21, 2011 at 2:04 pm | Reply
    • Earnan

      "JOE" could never be bothered to serve his country-he was "too smart" and "too important" of course-but he's more than willing to wrap himself in the sacrifices of his betters.

      That "little 10 year old boy" is already more of a man than "JOE" will ever be.

      October 21, 2011 at 3:13 pm | Reply
      • Sefry

        What an early birthday pnerest indeed! You'll never forget this birthday!! Have a great celebration!! P.S. Did Trump call you for your birth certificate? Wait. Never mind; he was busy calling Obama demanding Bin Laden's death certificate.

        April 3, 2012 at 6:39 pm |
    • James

      Joe, you would sound far less like a d0uch3bag if you acknowledged the fact that a Democratic congressional majority allowed the neocons to both start and continue the war. You're just a shill for one party. I could care less which one.

      October 21, 2011 at 5:19 pm | Reply
    • ringo541

      Joe is a dickhead. What I liked about being a soldier and a Combat Veteran, is not having to mix politics and fighting. Joe can not fight, did not toe the line and is a lower life form. Keep you comments coming, that way we will know you are not getting close to an honorable man or woman. GOD BLESS AMERICA and her warriors

      October 26, 2011 at 1:34 pm | Reply
      • markodavid

        Keep writing ,you are creating a fuller definition of "Sucker"

        November 12, 2011 at 10:11 pm |
    • Can

      Hey you did not give credit to libearl Chuck Todd for saying it wasn't luck but skill. Not sure he has hatred for the military, couldn't he just be a idiot?

      May 21, 2012 at 2:33 am | Reply
  7. SALLY

    I am honestly embarrassed by some of these comments the fact of the matteris that 22 SEALs DIED! 22 trained true warriors KILLED. These men are American Hero's and have left behind Mothers, Fathers, brothers, sisters, Wives and children whose lives have been turned upside down because of what happened on that tragic day. Let's show some respect to the brave men lost that day and those they left behind. These Men put their Country above all and I am pretty sure most of you cannot say the same I know I cannot. So unless you are an active member of the Military or a veteran you should keep your negative anti military comments to yourself. War is a fact of life and The SEALs are the best of the best. I lost a friend that day and the USA lost 22 of their BEST soldiers. The last thing I will say who ever thinks that THESE MEN did not die on this fatal day and that this is some lie and these men are on "leave" or have been "discharged" you need HELP serious HELP. THESE SEALs are gone children are now without fathers. That comment George is INSANE you need to check yourself in since you are clearly delusional and not to mention ignorant. RIP Warriors you are missed more then you could ever imagine and your spirits and legacy will live on for years to come. Thank you for alI for your service and fighting so we can live a safe and FREE life.I know that you are looking down on the ones you love and looking out for them

    October 21, 2011 at 12:20 pm | Reply
    • RJ

      BZ Sally well said! My thoughts and prayers are with all of those who lost their lives, and their families. Godbless!

      October 21, 2011 at 12:29 pm | Reply
    • Jason

      As a son of a Marine, i totally agree with u, but1thing ive realized when reading these comments4the last 5yrs about different stories is that, its some FOOLS out here, and we cant change that, i would get so mad @ certain comments but then i just had to tell myself to let it go. let the idiots be idiots. but you are totally right with what u said.

      October 21, 2011 at 12:47 pm | Reply
      • RJ

        Jason, those are just the idiots who do not know better. They have their freedoms to complain because of people who serve and have died so they can complain. I totally agree with you. Semper Fi to your dad!
        BZ

        October 21, 2011 at 1:06 pm |
    • 1CentFree

      The only problem I have with what you wrote is that you seem to only care about the 22 SEALs. There were 30 US servicemen killed (30!!), and they all deserve to be acknowledged. I know the SEALs are considered to be the best of the best when it comes to warfare, but in the end, they are people just like the other 5 soldiers and 3 airmen that also died along with them. When it comes to honoring servicemen that died fighting for our country, I see no distinctions in rank, party, race or background. They all deserve to be equally honored.

      October 21, 2011 at 2:03 pm | Reply
      • SALLY

        You are right anyone who serves this Country has all of my respect. What happened was just awful not just for the SEALs but for every man who lost their lives on that sad sad day. Ignorant people need to just not comment no need no one cares. YOU are living in the Country they are fighting for SO WE all can be safe and free be grateful.

        October 21, 2011 at 8:42 pm |
  8. Joe

    9/11 COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED. The Federal Government allowed it to happen because they did not want to retry over 70 mob trials.

    Don't believe me, read Mafia Son about Gregory Scarpa, Jr. He was in the same cell block and befriended a convicted terrorist. The terrorist told him they would use planes as bombs in the U.S.

    I can't remember her name, but the U.S. District Attorney was given the information but refused to show leniency for Mr. Scarpa, Jr. The evidence of planes as bombs was stowed away and never given serious credibility. We now know that this was indeed good information but this lady decided that 70 mobsters were more important that the lives that were lost on 9/11 and the lives of military members since the war begin.

    Trust me on this one, READ THE BOOK!

    October 21, 2011 at 11:38 am | Reply
    • ms1234

      Joe, i can tell you that sometime....somewhere....someday....there will be a tornado. Now you go prevent it.

      October 21, 2011 at 12:38 pm | Reply
    • James

      The problem with your "theory" is that for any of the conspiracy theories to work, several thousand steps in the master conspiracy plan have to go right. For the official government story to work, only about 5 things had to go wrong. When was the last time you had a whole day go exactly as planned? The mere fact that you chose to believe the conspiracies tells me that you don't pay much attention to the world around you.
      A bit of free advice for you: Stay away from Las Vegas.

      October 21, 2011 at 5:26 pm | Reply
  9. MS1234

    Further, can we start using our muscle to safeguard the aid/food/supplies that are given in humanitarian response to needy areas? What happened to the Peacekeepers? Can we send some big guys with big guns to guard the food storage buildings and ensure disbursment to the dang starving, rather then allowing it to get stolen by warlords? Cant we send some of our guys for that specifically, as well??

    October 21, 2011 at 8:38 am | Reply
  10. JOE

    Don't think the tea party self inflicting divisive and disruptive influence on America had anything to do with this accident? Just three months after the killing of Osama Bin Laden this outrageous accident occurs. Similarly, just a month or so later and almost to the day after the historic healthcare legislation was passed a year ago, the oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico suddenly explodes, killing several workers and spilling historic records of oil into the gulf. Don't smell conspiracy here?

    October 21, 2011 at 8:07 am | Reply
    • ms1234

      Joe, your comments are an embarrassment. Grow up. The military is dangerous and deaths and accidents will happen. All the successes, be they whatever they are large to small, just dont get the headlines.

      October 21, 2011 at 10:33 am | Reply
  11. Stupid Americans

    My only comment is: Stupid Americans

    October 20, 2011 at 11:06 pm | Reply
    • SoulCatcher

      and foreigners who post such things are so smart, unless...you are also an American.

      October 21, 2011 at 9:28 am | Reply
    • chach

      FUCK YOU

      October 21, 2011 at 12:01 pm | Reply
    • Ayatollah Bear

      Most of the times these are just self-hating Americans.

      I have visited 30+ countries, lived in almost 10 and rarely seen the amount of hate many Americans seem to have for themselves these days. Foreigners don't generally appreciate American foreign policy (sometimes for good reason) but they can generally distinguish between policy and reality – unlike our own people apparantly, which is just depressing.

      October 21, 2011 at 11:15 pm | Reply
      • Allen

        Bear I think you are dead on- I've visited 29 countries myself, and even though I am generally very suspicious of politicians and their often self-serving interests (despite the speeches), it is a point worth making that our country continues to assist millions worldwide, even when the choices are tough, right and wrong become hard to distinguish and sometimes you have to go with what you have (foreign leadership). As an ex-serviceman from the late seventies, I think we can NEVER do enough for all who serve, and I'm even proud that we don't shoot people (or jail them, i.e. China) just because they espouse a different point of view. The country remains strong, because free men and women are willing to die for it's ideals. I'm still proud to be an American.

        October 23, 2011 at 11:49 am |
      • Steven

        Definitely deserved that break Alinta! Boys look lolvey as always- I particularly love the last shot. No doubt a distant memory now, but lolvey photos to remember the great time you had.

        May 21, 2012 at 7:25 pm |
      • Andy

        graham, these are excellent. how exietcd were you when you first saw them? i'd have been giggling, i love it when you're out photographing randomly and you find something really good to shoot. you lucky boy!

        May 23, 2012 at 10:16 pm |
  12. Ron

    Simple fact -911 could have been prevented – for what ever reason it wasent – or it might even have been allowed to happen I dont really know – this war is closing the barn door after the horses got out . I am sure that a better prevention policy is the way to go and if it workes we would never know it –meaning that it is something like a good alarm system on a car if it workes nothing happens

    October 20, 2011 at 6:30 pm | Reply
    • digitar

      No way 9/11 could have been prevented. The idea of hijackers using a passenger plane as a suicide missile was completely new and unexpected, at least for the personnel on the airplanes.

      October 21, 2011 at 1:44 am | Reply
      • helmet

        couldn't have foreseen something they planned for? multiple terror response simulations involved the pentagon and the WTC complex. read before commenting.

        October 21, 2011 at 1:55 am |
      • pzanga

        Go look up Air France Flight 8969. Or the G8 summit in genoa in 2001, where anti-aircraft missle batteries were set up because of the threat of terrorists using planes as weapons. This was not a new and unexpected tactic. Of course you qualified it with "at least for the personnel on the airplanes" but those people were not responsible for preventing such an attack. The Bush administration knew OBL was looking to hijack planes and attack within the US but chose to ignore that and did not do a thing to increase security. The excuse Condi Rice gave that they thought the daily brief of Aug 6 was referring to traditional hijacking with hostage taking doesn't hold water. Plus, even if they thought it would be a "traditional" hijacking, why didnt they make any effort to prevent it?

        October 21, 2011 at 2:44 pm |
  13. r.ortiz

    the investigators said there was no wrong doing it made it look like the chopper that was shot down by some scum bag, was no big deal, we lost 38 of the best and most precious men in uniform, lets be more careful how you speak.

    October 20, 2011 at 6:15 pm | Reply
  14. Disgusted

    The last thing made in the USA: War.

    October 20, 2011 at 5:22 pm | Reply
    • Built for what you hate

      study world history much. liberal swine.

      best regards,
      A Marine

      October 21, 2011 at 9:53 am | Reply
      • N96PM

        Well said.

        October 21, 2011 at 1:23 pm |
      • huh?

        Well before we name call, blaming a fellow American, there is a good chance he could be some pissed off Haji venting his idiocy.

        October 21, 2011 at 2:33 pm |
  15. David D.

    We should never have this many elite troops on one helicopter. What a massive waste of life and capabilities.

    October 20, 2011 at 4:40 pm | Reply
    • durrrr

      I completely agree, we should disperse SEALs around the world in underground facilties so they are never in harms way.

      October 20, 2011 at 5:00 pm | Reply
    • David M

      Since you are not a Spec Ops professional, you may want to keep your silly comments to yourself. Just one point. The more aircraft you use, the more complicated it becomes. And the more targets you present. But you wouldn't know much about that.

      October 21, 2011 at 11:59 am | Reply
  16. George White

    This is not real. They are not dead. They are a very obvious target after the Bin Laden kill and the best way to hide them was present their death. Try to see beyond the obvious once in awhile. They NEVER would of been sent on another mission so quickly after the Bin Laden death. Ever. Period. The military is not that poor at strategy and tactics but "playing" dumb is a great way for them to "deal" with the situation.

    Seal Team 6: Thank you for your service. I hope you are enjoying your perm. leave and "discharge". Heroes each and every one of you.

    October 19, 2011 at 8:30 pm | Reply
    • NavyVet

      I met the mother of a Navy SEAL last week. Her son is deployed. She told me she ignores the media. Now I really understand why.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:21 am | Reply
    • Martin Goff

      They weren't killed, really? What are you smokin'? I went to two funerals in Minnesota or were those staged for some elaborate ruse? Get you head out of your butt. You thank the SEALS for their service–well you disrespect their dead!

      October 20, 2011 at 4:08 pm | Reply
    • John

      I am a retired Naval Aviator and I can assure you the military can be that dumb, frequently doesn't plan well, and make its fair share of fatal errors.

      October 20, 2011 at 4:33 pm | Reply
      • Brandon

        Unfortunately John, having served a brief stint in the Air Force myself, I can second this. Remember kids: although the military is a professional, well-trained fighting force, it's also a U.S. government agency and is capable of the same stupidity and waste as any other.

        October 20, 2011 at 5:32 pm |
      • George White

        I agree with you both. In this instance the officer responsible for tactical logistics should be court marshaled and at best dis-honorably discharged. I'd shoot his ass. Sending a chopper up a canyon is a fucking stupid move, ground forces have the complete advantage just based on noise alone. You'd hear that thing coming 50 miles away.

        October 21, 2011 at 12:31 am |
      • Sandman

        Agreed. I've also seen my share of dumb planning. I was almost the victim of it myself. But when we wear the uniform we deal with it. We should put these mission planners on the planes when they do this sh*t to teach them a lesson.

        October 21, 2011 at 11:19 am |
    • Texas

      Wow, I wish they weren't gone but they are. I have seen firsthand what this has done to the families of these heroes. My friend died that terrible day. There is no way he would allow his children and loved ones to suffer like they are. You, sir, are foolish indeed and dIsrespectful to what these families are going through.

      October 20, 2011 at 4:36 pm | Reply
    • Chinookguy

      Sir, I can assure you that you're wrong on multiple points. Seal team 6 is a combination of units, almost like platoons. The unit of Seal Team 6 that killed Bin Laden was not aboard that ACFT, you are correct about that...but not in the way you think. 22 Seals died that night from a seperate unit of Seal Team 6. Along with those Seals, 5 of my friends that were crewing that ACFT were killed. It's no cover story, 38 bodies were brought back...some of them able to Identify. Not everything is a conspiracy, look at the facts...and get yours straight. We keep fighting so that people will remember our friends who have given their lives, given their lives so that you can have the freedom to post this. Given their lives so that so many people can not believe they actually did it.

      October 20, 2011 at 8:18 pm | Reply
    • Sean

      Yo do realize that there is up to 100 SEALs per team or more right? And there are many more teams in the SEALS than just SEAL team 6. And nowhere does it say that any of the SEALs killed were those who participated in the Bin Laden raid. Why because it was more than likely not SEAL team 6 as they concern themselves mostly with HRT and High value targets. Moreover, those same SEALs that had been on the Bin Laden raid have more than likely experiences more missions since then because the OP tempo of such a unit is rediculously high! Thats why they do it! So George, you're clearly a master militart strategist and more than likely one of these "everythings a conspiracy kooks" but please post with a more well developed offering next time.

      October 20, 2011 at 10:01 pm | Reply
      • George White

        I'm not going to respond to most of this. It's pointless, really.

        Remember the news coverage of Saddam "look a-likes" who were altered through plastic surgery? Do you recall? What exactly happened to them?

        Also, I realize there are multiple teams etc. I realize ACTUAL seals DID in fact loose their lives. This is the cost of our freedom (although I do not agree with the premise of this war). I don't believe "Everything" is a conspiracy but if you do not realize that a limited group of people run this world, people who have admitted to such rulings, individuals who hold no governmental office, you sir are the fool.

        I could go on for countless hours and point out the flaw in each argument. But better just to throw a match on a gallon of gas and set this fucker off. So argue away....

        October 21, 2011 at 12:18 am |
      • George White

        Oh and PS I've had more Family die through wars that ACTUALLY mattered than most in this country, do not wave your pride around and be foolish. Also, intel operations are much different, tactically, than general militarized tactics. They serve completely different functions.

        October 21, 2011 at 12:23 am |
      • Sean

        Im absolutely baffled at your rebuttle, George. Your thoughts are incoherant and completelt irrelavant.... Tell the Free Masons I said hello.

        October 21, 2011 at 7:54 am |
      • Bert

        New Rule for George and his ilk: Having a brother, sister, grandfather, neighbor, friend or real estate agent who was in the military does not make you an expert, neither does reading Wikipedia. Those of us who did serve, or are serving, sometimes find comments telling us about our experiences/training/tactics a bit annoying. If you question them, join the military and work hard to achieve a rank that allows you to make a change.

        October 21, 2011 at 12:33 pm |
      • Earnan

        "George White" is a very stupid little man with untreated mental health issues.

        "George" should stick to UFOs and "second shooter on the grassy knoll" theories. Then he would only look like a nut, and not a braying jackass who insults the memories of those killed in the line of duty.

        October 21, 2011 at 3:25 pm |
    • Reese

      What a tool! What a miserable existence you must live.

      October 21, 2011 at 5:54 am | Reply
    • Andrew

      Wow, thank god we don't have an Moron like you in charge...

      October 21, 2011 at 8:08 am | Reply
      • dondijon

        Oh, but we do Andrew, WE DO!!!

        October 21, 2011 at 8:43 am |
      • MoronHunter

        George White may not be, or might be?, THE moron in charge but we certainly do have plenty of morons in charge to go around.

        October 21, 2011 at 8:48 am |
      • baron103

        Andrew, it should be written asega "a moron"of "an moron". Regardless, he's still a moron. Is'nt it amazing how one person can be an expert in his on mind when it's obvious to all that have actual experience, that he dose'nt know jack shit. Yes, I spent 22 yrs making a career of the milit ary and have seen my share of the absolute carnage it has to offer whether they were friends, enemies, or civilians. War is not the worst of things, when you have people that think that their very own freedom is not worth fighting for, that is the worst and it is a mistake to hand these people freedom when they have absolutely no idea the sacrifice that it took to gain it.
        In closing, never say to my face that one service members death is more important than anothers. That is a despicable comment to make. There are no varying degrees of death regardless of rank.

        November 5, 2011 at 3:37 am |
    • GeorgeISaCLOWN

      George is a MORON

      October 21, 2011 at 9:27 am | Reply
  17. No Need

    "No wrongdoing determined". That should be very comforting to the families that lost their loved ones. Even more comforting to the brass that go home each night to theirs, and now don't have to worry about accountability for lives lost. It's so easy to sit back thousands of miles away from harm and make decision that get people killed...Kinda like Johnson did during the Vietnam Slaughter where "taking" Hamburger Hill was decided like a chess game on a table inside the White House. Dick Cheney, his Halliburton lackeys, and all the other zeros who love reading these kinds of reports must be dancing a jig right now. That poor dog that lay in sorrow next to the casket cradling his master, one of the dead brave seals, is, for sure, a far better creature than they are@

    October 19, 2011 at 8:13 pm | Reply
    • James

      @No Need, I understand that you hate all things military and are trying to make an emotional point as opposed to a factual one but at least get your terms right. "The Brass" are the military leaders, and many of them are in theater too, so they don't go home at night either. The democratically elected civilian leaders who authorized these wars are the ones who go home and sleep with their families or mistresses, get life-long health-care after only one term and have perpetual access to the floor so they can lobby for the rest of their lives.

      October 19, 2011 at 8:30 pm | Reply
      • No Need

        People who claim to know what another meant and felt then replaces others verbiage with their own usually have egos through the roof. Whatever is the case with yours, the interpretation you wrote of the terminology I used to describe decision makers is irrelevant as the first part of your comments. However, the second part hit the nail on the head as far as what I meant. Thanks@

        October 21, 2011 at 11:19 am |
      • James

        @No Need,
        First, tell me what verbiage I replaced
        Second: Tell me how your comment was not emotion-based
        Third: Please tell me how you feel about the institution of a standing military?
        Fourth, are you telling me that there is no difference between blaming it on the military leaders vs. blaming it on the congress?

        October 21, 2011 at 5:31 pm |
      • No Need

        First, tell me what verbiage I replaced: Brass

        http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/brass
        Look at #4 You incorrectly assumed I meant a/military. Look at b for my definition

        Second: Tell me how your comment was not emotion-based.
        No emotion, just facts. Name a single statement I posted that isn't factual/true/accurate/dead on.

        Third: Please tell me how you feel about the institution of a standing military? Absolutely necessary.

        So much so I served in the Air Force for 27 years (1972-1998). My faithful service doesn't mean I fail to recognize the political shams that exist superseding the good of the military. You might add to your comment, in addition to Congress receiving long-term healthcare benefits after one term, they get lifetime pensions after serving that single five-year stint, yet they are about to cut out elements of my retirement stipend, and are proposing to completely eliminate the long-standing benefits for our current service members and turn it into a 401k.

        So yes, I know the difference between the military (+) and the pundits (-) in D.C.

        Fourth, are you telling me that there is no difference between blaming it on the military leaders vs. blaming it on the congress?

        Is a answer necessary?

        October 23, 2011 at 1:09 am |
    • Johnson

      Dude, it's a war. People die. I'm sure behind every death in combat some sargeant shouldn't have led his troops somewhere, or more troops could have been deployed, or what not. Doesn't mean every time that someone has to be tried and punished for it.

      October 20, 2011 at 9:44 pm | Reply
      • No Need

        It's so easy for "it's a war. People die" to roll off your cold-blooded lips. It But if it were your azz on the business end of a Kalashnikov, would you be so nonchalant about it?

        October 21, 2011 at 11:02 am |
      • James

        It depends on how many times you've been on the business-end of a boom-stick. Honestly.

        October 21, 2011 at 5:32 pm |
    • HockeyMinny

      well said

      October 21, 2011 at 11:26 am | Reply
  18. Jonathan

    9/11? Really? You honestly think that's why we're in A-stan?

    Mohammed Atta, one of the so-called 911 hijackers was paid $100,000 by Pakistan, not A-stan – see the 911 Commission Report. Where was Bin Laden all these years? Not in A-stan, but Pakistan. At best, the supposed 911 "terrorists" only trained in A-stan. Maybe we should have invaded Oklahoma after McVeigh supposedly blew up the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. After all, McVeigh trained at Elohim City. Where were the drone attacks on their compound?

    The problem is that Pakistan has nukes. The way we deal with nuclear powers is encirclement rather than confrontation. That's why we haven't joined S. Korea in retaliation against the North's recent attacks. Why did we invade Iraq? So we could encircle Iran who is busy trying to build a nuke so neither we nor Israel will attack.

    Iraq also had as much to do 911 as Alabama. Yet we're still there. Do you quiver at night because Iraq is making you less free? Are you willing to give up your sons and daughters to make Iraq "free"?

    The main reason we are in the Middle East is because of 1 thing – oil. We are addicted to oil. Fighting 2 trillion dollar wars are what countries do when they are desperate and addicted.

    Maybe if GW Bush hadn't been asleep at the wheel, the New York skyline would be the same as in 2000. Want someone to blame? Blame those whose responsibility it was to protect us. Iraq and A-stan are nothing but diversions from the truth. The truth is that Bush was either completely incompetent, our military was completely incompetent or factions within our government Let It Happen On Purpose.... Dig deep and decide for yourself – if you can....

    October 19, 2011 at 7:41 pm | Reply
    • Jackson

      Another reason we are involved in 2 overseas conflicts is because we don't have any jobs for those young people to do. If these boys and girls weren't in the military, they'd be on our streets killing Americans instead of Iraqis and Afghans. Just wait until they come home with PTSD and plenty of military training. Ever heard of the Black Panthers?

      Ban war.

      Thou shalt not kill.

      Do you pray to Jesus or Satan? Jesus was against war.

      October 19, 2011 at 7:47 pm | Reply
      • WickedFairy

        No. Jesus was at WAR against Evil. At WAR against Sin. At WAR against Injustice. At WAR against Mankind worshiping himself.

        October 19, 2011 at 7:55 pm |
      • James

        War has been banned several times, and how's that working out for you? Jesus also supported slavery, so I'm not sure what kind of role-model he is. Try and have a cogent argument before you open your pie-hole.

        October 19, 2011 at 8:32 pm |
      • Chris

        And Jesus said to the centurion, "Go your way; let it be done to you as you have believed." And the servant was healed that very hour. (Mat 8:13)
        And some soldiers were questioning him(jesus), saying, "And what about us, what shall we do?" And he said to them, "Do not take money from anyone by force, or accuse anyone falsely, and be content with your wages." (Luk 3:14)

        October 20, 2011 at 7:36 pm |
      • PTRTgirl

        Seriously?!?! "Another reason we are involved in 2 overseas conflicts is because we don't have any jobs for those young people to do. If these boys and girls weren't in the military, they'd be on our streets killing Americans instead of Iraqis and Afghans." This is the most absurd thing I have ever heard. What a complete smack in the face to everyone that serves. Do you realize what you are implying here? SHAME ON YOU

        October 21, 2011 at 1:28 pm |
      • NotRichButWantToBe

        First of all, it's Thou Shalt Not Murder, not Kill. Jesus appeared to Peter in a dream and said, "Peter, kill and eat". So that would be considered talking out of both sides of his (Jesus's) mouth. Second, the economy was growing when these soldiers were sent overseas in 03 & 04, so jobs were here.

        October 21, 2011 at 1:54 pm |
    • Adam

      Jonathan, I grant you respect. I wish all Americans could think like you do, we would then be the best country in the world. For now we are fighting everybody for some else. Where are the principles upon which our founding fathers made this country free?

      October 19, 2011 at 7:53 pm | Reply
  19. cellblock131

    Very sad, but all service members know what they are getting into when they join the military. Much respect.

    October 19, 2011 at 7:27 pm | Reply
  20. Roger

    Let's be quite honest about something here. If Bin Laden had been captured / killed in Tora Bora from the onset, public interest in the war in Afghanistan would've dropped to zilch, nada, nothing. US involvement there has never been about protecting anyone's freedom - ours or theirs. Sugarcoating the circumstances surrounding large and extended troop committals there is really an insult to those who have needlessly sacrificed their lives in the line of duty. Simply put: brave, patriotic, and morally-balanced American soldiers were made into pawns for an agenda and for careless planning that may or may not ever come to light, and those men and women deserve to have the truth brought out in the open lest their children or their children's children suffer the same fate. So, all you flag-waving veterans so hell-bent on protecting the good name of American foreign policy really need to take a moment to think about what it really means to love your country. And, whether you ever do or not, I sitll thank you for your service.

    October 19, 2011 at 6:45 pm | Reply
    • joe

      blow me

      October 19, 2011 at 7:04 pm | Reply
    • Alex

      Public interest has not dropped because virtually everyone in this country has a loved one involved in it somehow. So as long as we still have personnel over there, public interest will remain. That aside, you point may or may not have merit, but consider the logic of your opening statement.

      October 19, 2011 at 7:14 pm | Reply
      • Gajendra

        che la grafica di Undercover non era per ntiene male.Quello che non mi piaceva di Undercover e' che era semplicemente noioso.E' vero che la Wii tecnicamente e' molto inferiore alla Xobx e PS3 , ma questo non giustifica la mediocrita' generale dei titoli di corsaproposti.Per quale motivo BURNOUT 2 per Gamecube e' ancora un bel titolo e anche molto divertente??? dove esiste anche una gestione degli scontri!!!E' mai possibile che con una Console decisamente piu' potente non si riesca a fare di meglio???Ho la brutta ampressione che questo nuo Need for Speed sia un po' troppo arcade . un altro paio di titoli NFS di questo genere e riusciranno a raggiungere il livello F-ZERO del GC di 5 anni fa.Speriamo solo sia una brutta impressione.

        April 5, 2012 at 2:42 pm |
    • Kirk

      Great, you took a creative writing class. Try to focus on logic next time. Morally-balanced American Soldiers? What the hell are you talking about? You are assuming that every American soldier is morally-balanced. You make 0 sense.

      October 19, 2011 at 7:38 pm | Reply
    • Roger

      Kirk: Nowhere in my post did I use the phrase "every soldier." It would only be common sense to conclude that the vast majority of Americans who perished in Afghanistan were moral human beings. Would you suggest otherwise? No? Well then you basically had nothing useful to contribute.

      Alex: I am not referring to the present circumstances in regards to public support for post-Bin Laden US military action in Afghanistan. My point was that if Bin Laden had been captured / killed within the initial stages of the US military action in Afghanistan, it would be very unlikely that a long and protracted engagement would've ensued.

      Simply put, when taking inventory of American casualities and the mounting economic costs of US involvement in Afghanistan, I find it increasingly difficult to casually look beyond the inexcusably near-sighted decisions that resulted in Bin Laden's escape from the Tora Bora region in late 2001. The game was rigged for extra innings, and one would have to be naive to think otherwise.

      October 21, 2011 at 3:54 am | Reply
      • Al lawson

        You're an idiot...typical American.

        October 21, 2011 at 10:46 am |
    • Ayatollah Bear

      Let's be honest. Americans have no interest in this war because today they have no interest in anything for an extended period of time – except in this case the 1 percent who actually serve and bleed.

      We have built a country where every teenager can tell you what color Kim Kardashian's sh*t was this morning but probably couldn't point out Afghanistan – where thousands of their countrymen have died – on a map.

      Complexity used to be something that was appreciated – today's its an inconvenience to distill into a sound-good slogan that means nothing. God! I see our newsmen who are supposed to educate us these days, I hear our leaders speak, and for the first time I worry for the future of this great country.

      October 21, 2011 at 11:22 pm | Reply
  21. Squirts

    Having taken part in many air cav/ air assault missions, I wonder if Command has become too lax in its use of large, slow moving troop transports like the Chinook. The Chinook is a fine machine and future upgrades to detect non-guided weapons are in the works, but it sure would have been nice if this Chinook (and other Chinooks in theater) could be escorted by a gunship or two. I realize that's not always practical and may not have changed the outcome, but our brave men never stood a chance. Respects to our fallen and to all who serve. Ours is not to reason why, but to do our jobs to our fullest. ~Squirts 4/7 CAV; 2ID

    October 19, 2011 at 5:59 pm | Reply
    • MAKO 10

      As Army Special Forces I can say in most cases when were called in for support, it's often at a moments notice and planning is often minimal. As Special Forces we are also under separate command from conventional forces. Our routes almost always secret and we rarely travel in Chinook's while low to the ground or terrain in a hot area and not often during the daytime. Their great Helo's for troop and supply transport, but are big and bulky heavy lift helicopters and they are most vulnerable in situations like this one. This is a rare incident however, but a similar incident did happen in 2005 During Operation Red Wing. Where 3/4 SEAL's died on the ground and 8 more SEAL's and 8 Night Stalker Crew members on a Chinook were shot down and killed when attempting to come and assist the SEAL team that were pinned down and had casualties from the 4 SEAL Recon Team that were fighting 150+ Taliban on the ground. Both were a tragic loss of great Warriors and I myself lost a great friend and brother in the Wardak crash.

      October 19, 2011 at 6:21 pm | Reply
      • Squirts

        Mako10, good points all. It didn't dawn on me that Command would not be in tha' chain on a Sp Ops run (duh). Sincerest respects to you and yours and take care out there. Squirts

        October 19, 2011 at 6:51 pm |
      • Alex

        If you are Special Forces why are you advertising it? There are some with a vested interest into monitoring those types and it is not hard to glean information from an online post in regards to network information and activity; Open source collection, SIGINT, etc. OPSEC?

        October 19, 2011 at 7:23 pm |
      • Tad

        ...and the MAKO call-signs are used by NAVSOC units, not SF. Poser.

        October 19, 2011 at 7:35 pm |
      • Nik_Nefsek

        "Planning is minimal?" Typical poser bull. Tell me poser, what other tidbits of wisdom would you have about helo infils and lack of premission planning?

        October 20, 2011 at 5:38 pm |
    • DPUSABOT

      Gerry Owen!

      July 12, 2012 at 4:01 pm | Reply
  22. Whitehorse

    Ha ha, lets all laugh and make fun of the dead SEALs; I know some families that still wake up every day wondering how to go on. They died performing their mission sent there by the very people you chose to lead this country. Right or wrong in your obviously synical mind they are not only trying to provide other people the freedom that you take for granted but to try and prevent the spread of Radical Islam outside of the hell-hole where they died.

    We leave now and Afghanistan falls in two months; all lives lost in vain.

    Wait, I just had a revelation, i'm trying to explain something based on common sense to.....well, lets just say it's pointless to continue.

    De Opresso Liber

    October 19, 2011 at 5:57 pm | Reply
    • Squirts

      Respects to you, Whitehorse, You shouldn't waste your breath attempting to "educate" those who do not understand or dishonor the memories of our fallen. In this great country of ours, even idiots, mal-contents, extremists and radicals have the right to spew their hatred and ignorance. Whether they know it or not, THEY are the reason the US Constitution exists. BTW, Served with some members of South Korea's White Horse brigade back in the day. Tough fighters! Respects

      October 19, 2011 at 6:06 pm | Reply
    • KiKe

      Bah la grafica certo non qleula di NFS:Shift, per lo stile "tamarro" delle machine mi piace molto, e se la giocabilit buona, esce un bel gioco!Per come la vedo io ovviamente^^

      April 6, 2012 at 10:29 pm | Reply
  23. Donald Bicknell

    We never should have been in Iraq. Lies got us in that one. but I dont understand peoples negitive remarks about Afganistan. That is where the people who attacked our Country came from, Remember!

    October 19, 2011 at 5:53 pm | Reply
    • Andreas

      Donald, not a single terrorist from September 11th was from Afghanistan. You need to inform yourself before posting something like that. 90% were from Saudi Arabia. Remember?

      October 19, 2011 at 6:47 pm | Reply
      • Bill in Florida

        I'm sure that Donald meant - quite correctly - that the Taliban in Afghanistan were sheltering bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda network that planned and conducted the 9/11 attacks against us.

        October 19, 2011 at 7:00 pm |
    • Michael

      The people who attacked our country came from Saudi Arabia. Remember.

      October 19, 2011 at 6:57 pm | Reply
      • Adam

        We can't go after Saudi Arabia because they buy billions of arms from us and GW Bush and his wacko vice have financial interest there. So let's take it on the weak and troubled Afghans who fought British, Russian themselves and now us. Proud military of America exercising at Afghans, let's applaud.

        October 19, 2011 at 8:02 pm |
  24. wickedness

    Hilarious how scum bags the likes of that quoted below call people fighting for their country and countrymen "the bad guys." Perhaps they'd be good guys if they just accept 140k nato occupation forces dictating their livelihoods. The nerve.!!

    "These bad guys had been shot at. They were alert. They were leaning forward. They were prepared for the next shoe to fall and then what happened is a Chinook appeared in their crosshairs and they took advantage of it," said Spider Marks, a former senior intelligence officer who reviewed some of the report for CNN.

    October 19, 2011 at 5:51 pm | Reply
    • Oto

      Perhaps you should educate yourself and see what the Taliban had done to the country and people of Afghanistan before you start calling them "good guys"

      October 19, 2011 at 6:02 pm | Reply
    • me

      dude/ or lady. You have you head so far up your...anyway. If you knew anything about the A-stan conflict you'd know that the VAST, VAST majority of the Afghan populace HATES the Taliban, they hated them when they were in power, and they hate them now. There numbers are in the mere thousands. The rest of A-stan wants to be rid of them. So, when you say that these guys are "fighting for their country" and aren't bad guys, you honestly don't know what the .....you are talking about (that's REALLY clear). If you were to ask what these "freedom fighting" Taliban were really fighting for; theyd tell you Al-Qaeda, Osama Bin Laden, Martyrdom, The Haqqani Network, mullah Omar, or for the preservation of the conservative islamist state of Afghanistan (one in which women have NO rights, educations is considered a sin, execution is routine, and poverty and austerity is seen as a path to the twisted version of Allah that they worship). Please, if you don't know anything about a topic but what you read on your anarchist websites, don't comment on it. You only serve to belittle yourself, and may confuse others with false passion and info. that is all.

      October 19, 2011 at 6:07 pm | Reply
    • Joe Rioux

      Yeah, I'd like to see you call the Taliban "good guys" if you lived in that hell hole. You are the reason liberals get such a bad name. Empathy is one thing. Idiocy is another.

      October 19, 2011 at 6:21 pm | Reply
    • Duke Of Anke

      You really need to understand, very few like the Taliban, and they have twisted what Islam is to what the men think Islam should be, these seals were heroes, know what you are taking about before you decide, if they had gone in Palestine, then it would be different

      October 21, 2011 at 12:59 pm | Reply
    • Ayatollah Bear

      Even (most) Afghan children without an education know that the Taliban aren't the "good guys"

      But its nice you, who can sit thousands of miles away on your couch watching TV, can so pass judgment. You're an a**hat

      October 21, 2011 at 11:10 pm | Reply
  25. Bob Alberti

    And what exactly is the point of our ongoing occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan? Did these people die for any particular purpose?

    October 19, 2011 at 5:25 pm | Reply
    • J3sus Sandals

      Yes...for your freedom and their (Iraqis and Afgahnis) freedom, so I am told. Seals don't make good pilots anyways because it's hard for them to wrap their flippers around the cyclic.

      October 19, 2011 at 5:41 pm | Reply
      • Mike

        wow... kind of a dis-heartening comment towards 22 men that lost their lives. And FYI the seals main mission is to search and destroy and/or capture, not fly. The seals rely on other services (airforce, army) for air transportation.

        October 19, 2011 at 6:00 pm |
    • me

      do you remember 9/11? Do you remember what happens when we leave destitute a country to rot? We are in Afghanistan fighting for the safety and security of not only the US, but also the Af/Pak region which includes India and china and many, many nuclear warheads. That, and the fact that if the Taliban regain power you'd be looking at a massacre of innocents that would make the Sudan look like a playground. So, for humanitarian reasons, and National security reasons, as well as global security reasons. You take your pick...whichever works for you. Please read something about A-stan before commenting on it. Why Americans are so willfully ignorant on things they desire to speak about is f'n beyond me.

      October 19, 2011 at 6:14 pm | Reply
      • MS1234

        Hello, I appreciate your remarks and justifications. I see the "big picture". But ultimately I stick with my opinions from all along, which is the numbers game because it has indeed turned into an occupation. I see more success with the special forces teams insertions, etc. Our country and military is the greatest, but I really believe the public would better support those types of confrontations. Its what we are used to, the short term in and out. It just seems like we left the house doors unlocked and go off running around the town, instead of sitting home with a gun. Why cant the 100,000 troops be deployed at the airports and the passport security review panels/rooms? Need to determine, at what point we should engage a gang, be it Taliban or Al-Qaeda, or the Crips or the Bloods or the Somali Warlords. At what point does it become hot, because we will never wipe them all out, there will be 2 to replace each 1 killed. We are at the tipping point for "rebuilding". Now we have to do Iraq and Afghanistan. Because we have occupied. Its the wrong method, in my opinion. I love our country and military, but I think the generals and the strategists need some perspective.

        October 21, 2011 at 8:01 am |
      • ms1234

        If you are truly concerned about the warhead issue, dont you agree we should be cultivating our ally status with India? They seem to me like, not that I know anything, but a bit more cultured of a culture, sort of placing a premium on education and reason. They have nukes, and seems like we should do well to be more allied with them, since it is their natural region to begin with, shouldnt we be more supportive toward them?

        October 24, 2011 at 8:01 am |

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